Poll: If UFC was around when Bruce Lee was in his prime - how would he do?

[batmang]

Originally posted by: Paratus
let's see

Bruce > Chuck Norris > *

I think that sums it up.

posted via Palm Life Drive

pretty much.

 

[rhino56]

i think this thread is more about trying to redeem Gracie into the likes of a legend by standing him side by side with Bruce Lee. Because we all know that his life is basically over now and he should stay out of the ring after the beating Matt Hayes just put on him.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Codewiz
I like to get a good idea on all the people making these comments because I believe most of you are FOS.

I have been training in BJJ and Muay Thai for about 4 months. How about everyone else.

More than likely you could kick my ass. Probably not my dad's though, but he is really old and has a torn tendon in his leg, so maybe.

I agree BJJ is quite deadly in a real fight and is quite favored to win, but I just think will all of Bruce Lee's training and athleticism, it probably wouldn't last to the ground. I could understand that Gracie would be dominant on the ground, but if Bruce Lee had knowledge of the guys tactics, grappling and holding, he could keep a distance and go for quick hard strikes. If Bruce Lee was given BJJ training, he would definitely win. Without it, I still want to say he would win because of his inhuman physical strength and training, but if he got knocked to the ground, Gracie would probably win.

 

[Baked]

Originally posted by: astrocase
http://media.putfile.com/Bruce-Lee---Fight-With-Chuck-Norris

Bruce Lee KILLED Chuck Norris. Bruce Lee >*

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Looney
The point to MA is that you train something to the point that it becomes intuitive to you, so that it becomes a reflex. If somebody punches you, you don't think i'm going to block that with my left arm... it becomes a reflex and you do. It's not like a videogame where you plan ahead you're going to do such and such combo.

Exactly, that is why all really good martial arts take years if not decades to learn well because in reality it is about training, strength, and muscle memory (reflexes/instinct). When I was learning from my dad and some other guys (not anymore, I decided to quit;dad was sad about it, but nevermind, I digress), it was all about instinct. When you get to a certain level like my dad, then you can start choosing your attacks in the moment of the fight, but that takes years upon years to get to.

**EDIT**

To try and force choosing your attacks and planning out timing and crap before you get to that level, that is a surefire way of getting yourself hurt really bad. Attack and defend on instinct and training (which is training your instinct/reflexes to do something counter to what you would have done beforehand).

For example: if someone starts to throw blows at you, your untrained instinct is to block and back away (Flight instinct). That is not always the best tactic. Somtimes it is better to block/parry the blow and step in and to the side for an easy strike, but your gut reaction would be to not do that, and you can't think about it either because once you think about it and measure the timing it is too late and the next blow is coming. You need to train your reaction to be once you see the blow coming you step in and to the side and throw a blow yourself while protecting yourself with your other arm. That just comes with training and muscle memory and hand eye coordination.

Of course sourceninja, if you are at the point in training where you can easily measure timing and distance and all of that without really thinking about it but still making a conscious choice, then I tip my hat off to you.

 

[rhino56]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: michaels
He would get his ass beat by a well rounded fighter from today. People get way to caught up in choregraphed and staged movie fights.

Exactly. Nobody fights that fast for real. You can do your moves a lot faster if all you've practiced the exact same sequence for hours on end.

Why? Because in a fight, your punches and kicks are somehow slowed down?

Because in a real fight you have to defend yourself and react to your opponent. In a stage demo, you know exactly what to do when.

That's bull. The choreograph would have been quicker, but your abilities are just as quick. Just like somebody who trains 6 months acts quicker than somebody who never did... somebody who trained 5 years would be quicker than the person who trained 6 months. You obviously don't really understand how martial arts work. The point to MA is that you train something to the point that it becomes intuitive to you, so that it becomes a reflex. If somebody punches you, you don't think i'm going to block that with my left arm... it becomes a reflex and you do. It's not like a videogame where you plan ahead you're going to do such and such combo.

Whats your MMA record? How long have you been training in combat sports? You obviously have not been in a fight. Its not like chess, I dont attack then you defend. Things dont work out as planned. You have to read your oppoent, you have to be ok with getting hit, and you have to have some luck. I'm not saying I stand around saying, Ok i'm gonna go in with this attack and then this etc. But I have to stalk my opponent. I have to look for openings, and I have to be ready to defend myself if he chooses to attack. I just can't go balls to the wall like I can if I was doing a dance routine (which is what most people think martial arts are). Its about timing and resistance.

LOL you absolutely have no idea how real fights are, seriously. Stalk your opponent, looking for openings LOL

As for me, i can guaranteed with absolute certainty i've been in more fights than you. I'm not going to toot my own horn here, but i spent 3 years in prison and many years in street fights before that.

me too lol

 

[Rip the Jacker]

If Bruce Lee is the best, can he get to the top of <arnold schwarzenegger accent>THE TOWAH</arnold schwarzenegger accent> ?

 

[mooncancook]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: Codewiz
I like to get a good idea on all the people making these comments because I believe most of you are FOS.

I have been training in BJJ and Muay Thai for about 4 months. How about everyone else.

More than likely you could kick my ass. Probably not my dad's though, but he is really old and has a torn tendon in his leg, so maybe.

I agree BJJ is quite deadly in a real fight and is quite favored to win, but I just think will all of Bruce Lee's training and athleticism, it probably wouldn't last to the ground. I could understand that Gracie would be dominant on the ground, but if Bruce Lee had knowledge of the guys tactics, grappling and holding, he could keep a distance and go for quick hard strikes. If Bruce Lee was given BJJ training, he would definitely win. Without it, I still want to say he would win because of his inhuman physical strength and training, but if he got knocked to the ground, Gracie would probably win.

Well if he could somehow put Bruce Lee to the ground without getting some hard hits first then he might win. The question is if he could coz if he gets hit hard first then even if it becomes a ground fight he might not have enough strength left to grapple Bruce Lee into submission.

 

[Rip the Jacker]

Whatever happened to that guy that ripped the bulls horns off?

 

[Project86]

Originally posted by: astrocase
No, I haven't seen every UFC match, but why do we never see these guys use pressure points? Killing arms and legs for example. I see them beat on the other guy's legs but what I want to see is the guy who kicks and when the guy blocks he hits a pressure point rendering the guys leg useless. This is where the stand up guys could really entertain us.

Probably because that is not real? Lots of stories around about this type of thing, but no proof. It would be VERY easy for someone to come forward and demonstrate this stuff....

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb

Originally posted by: michaels
He would get his ass beat by a well rounded fighter from today. People get way to caught up in choregraphed and staged movie fights.

Exactly. Nobody fights that fast for real. You can do your moves a lot faster if all you've practiced the exact same sequence for hours on end.

Why? Because in a fight, your punches and kicks are somehow slowed down?

No, because in a real fight there are a lot of variations that don't fit into your pre-formed movements. I've spent a lot of time training TKD and various other traditional arts, only to have to start from scratch when I got into muay thai. And the traditional stuff I learned actually made it HARDER for me to learn BJJ. But don't take my word for it: go ask somebody who has trained in both traditional and MMA. See how much they value the traditional stuff, and how affective it is for them.

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: Gibson486

Originally posted by: Codewiz
Ok if Bruce Lee lived forever and trained, he would have learned BJJ and would beat Gracie but you guys are retarded.

Bruce Lee in his prime had certain skills

Gracie in his prime had certain skills

Gracie's skills were unknown to Lee. Lee never saw them. On the other hand, Gracie fought many many standup fighters. Yeah they were better at the standup game but Gracie took every fight to the ground. There are easy ways to protect yourself in the standup game if you are that much superior on the ground.

Gracie would win easily

Technique > strength

Now if Bruce trained in BJJ then his athleticism would have been an advantage and he would own Gracie.

It is just a fact that BJJ > Jeet Kune Do(during Lee's lifetime)

but JKD did have grappling.....

During Lee's lifetime, the grappling had nothing that could compete with the skills in BJJ.

Just look at the early UFC. I wish people would look at history. Submission Wrestling and BJJ OWNED UFC in the early years. Standup fighters were dominated and controled.

Since you know UFC history so well, which of those standup fighters were top-tiered? Where are the ranked boxers or ranked thai fighters?

We haven't seen any top ranked people that would qualify as the best in the world, probably because they are already making $$$ doing what they do, and have nothing to gain but a lot to lose by fighting MMA. We have seen some very good strikers though, like Marvin Eastman (muay thai), Anderson Silva (muay thai), Bas Rutten (all kinds of striking expertise), Vernon White (traditional), Wanderlei Silva (muay thai), Mirko Filipovic (kickboxing), Pedro Rizzo (muay thai), Alistair and Valentijn Overeem (kickboxing), Jerrel Venetiaan (kickboxing), Igor Vovchanchyn (kickboxing), Gilbert Yvel (muay thai), Vitor Belfort (boxing), Marco Ruas (muay thai), Maurice Smith (kickboxing).... Some of them have been very successful, others not so much. But all of these guys also know enough BJJ to keep them out of trouble. When they didn't, they got beat... simple as that.

 

[sunzt]

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: mooncancook

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: sunzt
Bruce would own, why?

Bruce is trained to bite, eye-gouge, and kill a man's babies

Gracie would still be trying to shoot and perform submission holds while his eyes are gouged out.....

UFC != real fighting.

I believe the thread asked who would win in UFC

some rules of UFC:
NO
Eye gouging of any kind
Groin attacks of any kind
Small joint manipulation
Throat strikes of any kind

those rule and the ring might handicap Bruce Lee somewhat, but I don't know if Gracie could dodge Lee's strikes. Getting hit in the head by Bruce Lee is no joke.
If it's a free street fight then Bruce Lee will certainly win with a simple "nut cracker" strike

Umm, how are you going to eye gouge or attack the nuts when you are in an inferior position? Have you ever grappled?

You have got to be kidding. Unless the 'inferior position' is pinning both your arms and submitting you, you can easily do it. In fact, there is a Pride fighter, i can't remember his name... chubby bald guy that grabs people's nuts when he's put in a submission.

I've had people try. It doesnt' work as well as it sounds. When I'm in the mount, you can't reach my nuts becuase I am too far up for you to have a good reach (aka legs under the amrpits) or be, I'm too low (all my weight on you with hooks sunk in the legs). If you go for my eyes you are going to get armbared. You can think about reaching for my nuts while I drop elbows on your face all you want.

If the opponent gets you in a mount there are defenses against punches and whatever as you probably know, but the key phrase is "When you..." a lot of shiate happens before that happens. Grapplers are used to training starting at the ground. Fights always start standing up. So many opportunities and openings happen before "When you get in the mount" that not having an opportunity at an eye gouge or nutcracker or bite is almost impossible. And I'm pretty sure that Bruce wouldn't need many opportunities to exploit those manuvers.

 

[newbiepcuser]

Originally posted by: Codewiz
I like to get a good idea on all the people making these comments because I believe most of you are FOS.

I have been training in BJJ and Muay Thai for about 4 months. How about everyone else.

<crickets chirping>

 

[ballmode]

Bruce was God.

Ask the people who trained with them, even with pads he still hurt them practicing

 

[JackBurton]

This is a pretty funny thread.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Project86

We haven't seen any top ranked people that would qualify as the best in the world, probably because they are already making $$$ doing what they do, and have nothing to gain but a lot to lose by fighting MMA. We have seen some very good strikers though, like Marvin Eastman (muay thai), Anderson Silva (muay thai), Bas Rutten (all kinds of striking expertise), Vernon White (traditional), Wanderlei Silva (muay thai), Mirko Filipovic (kickboxing), Pedro Rizzo (muay thai), Alistair and Valentijn Overeem (kickboxing), Jerrel Venetiaan (kickboxing), Igor Vovchanchyn (kickboxing), Gilbert Yvel (muay thai), Vitor Belfort (boxing), Marco Ruas (muay thai), Maurice Smith (kickboxing).... Some of them have been very successful, others not so much. But all of these guys also know enough BJJ to keep them out of trouble. When they didn't, they got beat... simple as that.

Um i wasn't talking about today. I was talking about the first UFCs when it was style vs style.

 

[silverpig]

Bruce Lee would kick ass until he faced Coke...

 

[Project86]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Project86

We haven't seen any top ranked people that would qualify as the best in the world, probably because they are already making $$$ doing what they do, and have nothing to gain but a lot to lose by fighting MMA. We have seen some very good strikers though, like Marvin Eastman (muay thai), Anderson Silva (muay thai), Bas Rutten (all kinds of striking expertise), Vernon White (traditional), Wanderlei Silva (muay thai), Mirko Filipovic (kickboxing), Pedro Rizzo (muay thai), Alistair and Valentijn Overeem (kickboxing), Jerrel Venetiaan (kickboxing), Igor Vovchanchyn (kickboxing), Gilbert Yvel (muay thai), Vitor Belfort (boxing), Marco Ruas (muay thai), Maurice Smith (kickboxing).... Some of them have been very successful, others not so much. But all of these guys also know enough BJJ to keep them out of trouble. When they didn't, they got beat... simple as that.

Um i wasn't talking about today. I was talking about the first UFCs when it was style vs style.

I think it's still a relevant point. But you make it seem as if the Gracie family started UFC and got to pick and choose their opponents. That was simply not the case. It was an open invitation tournament, provided you had enough cred to seem like a decent competitor. Any badass martial artist from any style should have been able to compete. So don't blame the Gracie family for fighting "mediocre" opponents--that's all they were given.

Originally posted by: ballmode
Bruce was God.

Ask the people who trained with them, even with pads he still hurt them practicing

That's actually pretty common... I have a lot of respect for Bruce Lee but he has been elevated to a legend status, and has aquired the requisite embellishments/exaggerations. By now Bruce Lee:

Is the father of every kid in this town
His poop is used as currency in Argentina
He once inhaled a seagull
His family crest is a picture of a barracuda eating Neil Armstrong
I once saw him scissor-kick Angela Lansbury
He hated Mexicans! And he was half-Mexican! ...And he hated irony!
etc

Originally posted by: newbiepcuser

Originally posted by: Codewiz
I like to get a good idea on all the people making these comments because I believe most of you are FOS.

I have been training in BJJ and Muay Thai for about 4 months. How about everyone else.

<crickets chirping>

I have trained TKD and some other random traditional stuff for about 5 years, then Muay Thai for about 6 years now, and BJJ for the last 3.

 

[Rip the Jacker]

up

 

[delco007]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I don't believe half those quotes..
Hayward Nishioka - "Bruce had this trademark "One Inch Punch", he could send individuals (Some of whom outweighed him by over 100lbs) flying through the air where they'd crash to the ground 15 feet away. I remember getting knocked up against the wall by that punch. I didn't think it was possible that he could generate so much power in his punch, especially when he was just laying his hand against my chest, he just twitched a bit and Wham!!!, I went flying backward and bounced off a wall. I took him very seriously after that."

If someone punched you really hard, your bones would break, but you wouldn't fly back too much.
It's like if someone had a sledge hammer and whacked it sideways to your chest. Your bones would shatter rather than you flying back. The force would be absorbed by your body, rather than creating an elastic momentum.

u can punch a guy in two ways either tht punch can be jerk action(greater impulse) or in a pushing action(lesser impulse).i have observed this from my personal experience.if Bruce would have used the 1st kind then most of the guys would have died due to shattered bones and internal organs so his punches were normally of the second kind
i hope u get my point
GKS

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: Project86
I have trained TKD and some other random traditional stuff for about 5 years, then Muay Thai for about 6 years now, and BJJ for the last 3.

At least you got away from TKD. I imagine that after training Muay Thai and learning some efficiency, your TKD can be used.

I am always amazed with 95% of TKD folks. They are so wasteful with their kicks. Yeah if they land then you are hurt but I would rather take my short strikes in MT.

I definately wouldn't want to end up in a street fight against you

What belt are you in BJJ?

 

[z42]

Originally posted by: Babbles
I would say Bruce Lee because he in addition to the obvious strength, speed, and talent he also demonstrated adaptability, creativity, and he was a very smart individual. Many people know how to practice their martial art (or anything really) but Bruce Lee really seemed to understand things on a much deeper level and that understanding gave him god-like qualities.

This is what I was thinking too. Bruce operated at Ludicrous Speed (TM) and was incredibly powerful for a person his size. Basically a walking muscle. No disrespect to the fighters of today, but he was possibly the perfect combination of speed, power, knowledge and adaptability. If you watch any of the footage of his demonstrations (saw some on H channel one time) you can see that he is crazy fast and can look like he's goofing around but be completely ready for any move at the same time.

 

[DanTMWTMP]

hehe, and here I thought that this thread will turn into some kind of brucelee coke joke cool thread, but instead, I find a very very imformative, mature discussion with few flames.

I think this thread is among the best threads I've ever read here on ATOT. a lot of good information is being tossed around, and it's a healthy discussion. Props to those in this thread.

 

[sourceninja]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: sourceninja

Originally posted by: mooncancook

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: sunzt
Bruce would own, why?

Bruce is trained to bite, eye-gouge, and kill a man's babies

Gracie would still be trying to shoot and perform submission holds while his eyes are gouged out.....

UFC != real fighting.

I believe the thread asked who would win in UFC

some rules of UFC:
NO
Eye gouging of any kind
Groin attacks of any kind
Small joint manipulation
Throat strikes of any kind

those rule and the ring might handicap Bruce Lee somewhat, but I don't know if Gracie could dodge Lee's strikes. Getting hit in the head by Bruce Lee is no joke.
If it's a free street fight then Bruce Lee will certainly win with a simple "nut cracker" strike

Umm, how are you going to eye gouge or attack the nuts when you are in an inferior position? Have you ever grappled?

You have got to be kidding. Unless the 'inferior position' is pinning both your arms and submitting you, you can easily do it. In fact, there is a Pride fighter, i can't remember his name... chubby bald guy that grabs people's nuts when he's put in a submission.

I've had people try. It doesnt' work as well as it sounds. When I'm in the mount, you can't reach my nuts becuase I am too far up for you to have a good reach (aka legs under the amrpits) or be, I'm too low (all my weight on you with hooks sunk in the legs). If you go for my eyes you are going to get armbared. You can think about reaching for my nuts while I drop elbows on your face all you want.

LOL dude, just because you have ninja in your username, it really doesn't make you one.

Do you ever come down from canada to chicagoland area? We run fights on the first weekend of every month. I could use a competitior if you are in the 160-170. Because you have no formal training, I'll give you 160-180. I use sourceninja because of a joke my friend made that I steal his code. Not because I'm a ninja. I train in boxing, mauy thai, and bjj. I've been training in the martial arts from the time I was a pre-teen. I hold a black belt in TKD. I have 2 years of competitive judo experiance, some amature boxing and kickboxing experiance, and slightly over 6 months of bjj/MMA experiance. I have trained with top MMA pro's and boxing pro's. I also have 1 year of aikido and krav maga under my belt (although neither really matters in the whole scheme of things). I'm not calling you out for a street fight. But you claim to be a fighter, so I wouldn't mind getting in the ring with you. Its 50.00 to show up and 100.00 if you win. Afterwards, win or lose, we can go for beers.

Oh and finally, I find it funny to read what people who have never actually been in the ring think will happen. Its like all those idiots who thought Royce would be Matt. And yes, Royce is the worst of his brothers. He can't even win at Pure BJJ competitions. He is a sucky fighter, but I think he could take Bruce Lee. Simple because bruce never trained in BJJ, and more importantly never fought in the ring. Its a sport, if you dont train for it, you will loose. (With the exception of a lucky strike)

 

[Project86]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: Project86
I have trained TKD and some other random traditional stuff for about 5 years, then Muay Thai for about 6 years now, and BJJ for the last 3.

At least you got away from TKD. I imagine that after training Muay Thai and learning some efficiency, your TKD can be used.

I am always amazed with 95% of TKD folks. They are so wasteful with their kicks. Yeah if they land then you are hurt but I would rather take my short strikes in MT.

I definately wouldn't want to end up in a street fight against you

What belt are you in BJJ?

I don't really use anything from TKD or the other karate stuff I did, although it did get me nice and flexible... which was very helpful when starting out in muay thai.

I got my blue belt fairly quickly, and then took forever to get my purple belt. I don't think I'll be getting a brown belt anytime soon, since I have a 1 year old son and spend way less time training these days. Maybe when he is old enough to start training I'll get back into it.

EDIT I also agree with sourceninja that Royce is one of the worst of the Gracies. He is not aggressive enough, and since he never really bothered to learn how to fight standing up AT ALL, he ends up taking a lot of punishment. To his credit, the man can really take a beating without giving up or losing his focus, and has pulled off some subs when it seemed like he should have been passed out.

 

[BigCoolJesus]

Bruce Lee FTW!!!