Poll: Howard Dean vs George W. Bush

[damiano]

Originally posted by: fjorner
wow. dead even.

nice

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Amused
Attacking a nation that has thumbed it's nose at a UN order to disarm after losing a war of aggression is hardly "preemptive." It's funny how the anti-war folks completely ignore 1441 and the fact that every intelligence agency in the world was positive Iraq had WMDs.

Which was why the UN was opposed to the US invasion, right?

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Vic


And Amused, with all his spending, Clinton still spent less that what GW is currently spending.

Um, the increase in federal spending during the Clinton years is no lower than the increase over the last couple of years.

Look here:

http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2003/sheets/hist01z1.xls

And the deficit estimates have been seriously revised as of late because of the dramatic turn around in the economy. It has us back in the black by 2005.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused
Attacking a nation that has thumbed it's nose at a UN order to disarm after losing a war of aggression is hardly "preemptive." It's funny how the anti-war folks completely ignore 1441 and the fact that every intelligence agency in the world was positive Iraq had WMDs.

Which was why the UN was opposed to the US invasion, right?

The UN was opposed only because two nations with veto power were opposed. As I recall, were all votes equal, the sorely needed action on resolution 1441 would have passed.

And let's get this straight, even CLINTON thought the action was needed, and that Iraq had a dangerous WMD program. It's time to stop the history revisionism, folks. It just doesn;t work when it happened so recently.

 

[amcdonald]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused
Attacking a nation that has thumbed it's nose at a UN order to disarm after losing a war of aggression is hardly "preemptive." It's funny how the anti-war folks completely ignore 1441 and the fact that every intelligence agency in the world was positive Iraq had WMDs.

Which was why the UN was opposed to the US invasion, right?

IIRC they weren't opposed to military action, they just wanted to continue investigating ad nauseum, and the american cowboys got bored with the process. But seriously, how do you expect investigators to find terrorist weapons in a country that denies they exist...
Do you think you couldn't stay ahead of the UN investigators if you had a few decades experience ruling a despotic country? I don't know how that process could ever be expected to produce the weapons if they had them.

 

[Tom]

woohoo broke the tie !!

 

[Rob9874]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused
Attacking a nation that has thumbed it's nose at a UN order to disarm after losing a war of aggression is hardly "preemptive." It's funny how the anti-war folks completely ignore 1441 and the fact that every intelligence agency in the world was positive Iraq had WMDs.

Which was why the UN was opposed to the US invasion, right?

Just because the UN is ineffective at enforcing their laws, doesn't mean the US will take it lying down. We gave Saddam too many "one more try"'s. I think liberals are against any kind of discipline. From personal values to foreign policy, let's just let everyone do as they choose. Personal choice. Republicans just want to hold people accountable for their actions.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Rob9874
Just because the UN is ineffective at enforcing their laws, doesn't mean the US will take it lying down. We gave Saddam too many "one more try"'s. I think liberals are against any kind of discipline. From personal values to foreign policy, let's just let everyone do as they choose. Personal choice. Republicans just want to hold people accountable for their actions.

Way to rationalize...

You might want to consider just how pompous your statement sounds, btw. Who died and made the Republicans God that they have chosen themselves to hold everyone accountable? I believe very strongly in holding people accountable, but wisdom has taught me that both fate and God are more effective and knowledgable than I in doing so. May the same mercies be shown to you as you show to everyone else.

Oh... and the law in question is the UN's to enforce, not the US's.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Rob9874
Just because the UN is ineffective at enforcing their laws, doesn't mean the US will take it lying down. We gave Saddam too many "one more try"'s. I think liberals are against any kind of discipline. From personal values to foreign policy, let's just let everyone do as they choose. Personal choice. Republicans just want to hold people accountable for their actions.

Way to rationalize...

You might want to consider just how pompous your statement sounds, btw. Who died and made the Republicans God that they have chosen themselves to hold everyone accountable? I believe very strongly in holding people accountable, but wisdom has taught me that both fate and God are more effective and knowledgable than I in doing so. May the same mercies be shown to you and you show to everyone else.

Oh... and the law in question is the UN's to enforce, not the US's.

Last time we left things up to "fate and god" we ended up in WWII. And it was at that time that we permanently abandoned our isolationist policy... and it's a damn good thing we did.

Oh, and the US is the only truly effective military force the UN has.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Rob9874
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031211/nyth120_1.html

2004 Will Be the U.S.'S Best Year Economically in Last 20 Years

Four more years! Four more years!

And during those 4 years I wonder which country is next for one of our patented Pre-emptive Military Strikes? Or do you think we will still be stuck in a Quagmire in Iraq and will be unable to further the Neocons agenda of Pax Americana?

Attacking a nation that has thumbed it's nose at a UN order to disarm after losing a war of aggression is hardly "preemptive." It's funny how the anti-war folks completely ignore 1441 and the fact that every intelligence agency in the world was positive Iraq had WMDs.

Funny how there were wrong. Funny you bring up Clinton. It was his doing that took the knees out of our Inteligence community. If the Dub had dodgy Intel what makes you think that Clinton didn't?

Am I anti War? Well it depends on which war. I fully supported our incursion into Afghanistan and I supported our invasion of Iraq..when I was told a bunch of BS about. It doesn't matter who's the blame for the dodgy Intel, when you are going to put Americans in Harms way and tell the American People that this and that is true you better damn well be correct. If Clinton was so sure how come he didn't get in front of the American People like Bush did and spell out the same scenario? Maybe because the Republicans would have cried BS and not supported him. Of course when Clinton was President we weren't flushed with the patriotism that we were after the 9/11 attacks and Clinton couldn't have played that to get us to support a war based on faulty Intel.

I find it totally disheartening that people like you are willing to forgive the deceit or the incompetence the now has our boys in harm's way and which has done tremendous damage to our image around the world. Bushes Foreign Diplomacy has been a disaster and it seems his exit strategy for Iraq was non existent. Maybe he believed that the Iraqi's would welcome us as Liberators instead of occupiers. Well it seems that he was wrong. I also find it interesting that you would use Clinton to defend Bushes actions LOL🙂

 

[amcdonald]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Rob9874
Just because the UN is ineffective at enforcing their laws, doesn't mean the US will take it lying down. We gave Saddam too many "one more try"'s. I think liberals are against any kind of discipline. From personal values to foreign policy, let's just let everyone do as they choose. Personal choice. Republicans just want to hold people accountable for their actions.

Way to rationalize...

You might want to consider just how pompous your statement sounds, btw. Who died and made the Republicans God that they have chosen themselves to hold everyone accountable? I believe very strongly in holding people accountable, but wisdom has taught me that both fate and God are more effective and knowledgable than I in doing so. May the same mercies be shown to you and you show to everyone else.

Oh... and the law in question is the UN's to enforce, not the US's.

Thats nice that you would wish a lack of mercy on someone else... where did God teach you that one?
Anyway, Saddam was lying and evading proper inspection/questions since the end of the gulf war. And the power was already delegated by the UN to use military action against Iraq (IIRC). Remember when Clinton would randomly fire some missles at Iraq to mask controversy?

 

[Rob9874]

The Republicans don't think it's their place to hold others accountable. The Republicans are just fighting for some kind of accountability. If we can't agree on what's right and what's wrong, then the answer is just to let everyone do whatever they want?

And the US was playing the game, and letting the UN hold Iraq accountable with 1441. But when the law has no backing, someone has to take action. What good is the UN if they're not going to stand by their policies? It's just lip service.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Amused
Last time we left things up to "fate and god" we ended up in WWII. And it was at that time that we permanently abandoned our isolationist policy... and it's a damn good thing we did.

Oh, and the US is the only truly effective military force the UN has.

The only thing about Iraq that looks even vaguely similar to WWII to me is that it looks like Italy just attacked Ethiopia again...

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Rob9874
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031211/nyth120_1.html

2004 Will Be the U.S.'S Best Year Economically in Last 20 Years

Four more years! Four more years!

And during those 4 years I wonder which country is next for one of our patented Pre-emptive Military Strikes? Or do you think we will still be stuck in a Quagmire in Iraq and will be unable to further the Neocons agenda of Pax Americana?

Attacking a nation that has thumbed it's nose at a UN order to disarm after losing a war of aggression is hardly "preemptive." It's funny how the anti-war folks completely ignore 1441 and the fact that every intelligence agency in the world was positive Iraq had WMDs.

Funny how there were wrong. Funny you bring up Clinton. It was his doing that took the knees out of our Inteligence community. If the Dub had dodgy Intel what makes you think that Clinton didn't?

Am I anti War? Well it depends on which war. I fully supported our incursion into Afghanistan and I supported our invasion of Iraq..when I was told a bunch of BS about. It doesn't matter who's the blame for the dodgy Intel, when you are going to put Americans in Harms way and tell the American People that this and that is true you better damn well be correct. If Clinton was so sure how come he didn't get in front of the American People like Bush did and spell out the same scenario? Maybe because the Republicans would have cried BS and not supported him. Of course when Clinton was President we weren't flushed with the patriotism that we were after the 9/11 attacks and Clinton couldn't have played that to get us to support a war based on faulty Intel.

I find it totally disheartening that people like you are willing to forgive the deceit or the incompetence the now has our boys in harm's way and which has done tremendous damage to our image around the world. Bushes Foreign Diplomacy has been a disaster and it seems his exit strategy for Iraq was non existent. Maybe he believed that the Iraqi's would welcome us as Liberators instead of occupiers. Well it seems that he was wrong. I also find it interesting that you would use Clinton to defend Bushes actions LOL🙂

I don't blame the present admin for the crappy intel. Why should I? Our intel agencies were neutered long before he took office.

I love how people think we should already have an exit strategy in Iraq. How long did it take us to turn power over the the new governments of Japan and Germany after WWII? This crap cannot be done in a year.

As for our "image" screw 'em. They got used to 8 years of appeasement and have been given a wake up call. They'll get over it.

 

[jpeyton]

My faith in humanity is restored at this point, seeing Dean in the lead of this poll. It's nice to know that our govt. might only be a sham for one more year.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Amused
Last time we left things up to "fate and god" we ended up in WWII. And it was at that time that we permanently abandoned our isolationist policy... and it's a damn good thing we did.

Oh, and the US is the only truly effective military force the UN has.

The only thing about Iraq that looks even vaguely similar to WWII to me is that it looks like Italy just attacked Ethiopia again...

Actually, it looks an awful lot like the allies refusal to enforce the Treaty of Versailles. Could Sadam have become another Hitler? Probably not. But in a world in which nuclear and biological weapons exist, he didn't need to be anywhere near as smart as Hitler. He only needed to be as evil... and he was.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: amcdonald
Thats nice that you would wish a lack of mercy on someone else... where did God teach you that one?
Anyway, Saddam was lying and evading proper inspection/questions since the end of the gulf war. And the power was already delegated by the UN to use military action against Iraq (IIRC). Remember when Clinton would randomly fire some missles at Iraq to mask controversy?

You might want to work on your reading skills. I didn't "wish" anything on him. What I said is simply that which is inevitable. I could neither cause it nor prevent it.
Oh, and Matthew 7:1-5

And like GW's war in Iraq isn't really for the same purpose (as when "Clinton would randomly fire some missiles")....

minor edit for clarity

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Rob9874
The Republicans don't think it's their place to hold others accountable. The Republicans are just fighting for some kind of accountability. If we can't agree on what's right and what's wrong, then the answer is just to let everyone do whatever they want?

And the US was playing the game, and letting the UN hold Iraq accountable with 1441. But when the law has no backing, someone has to take action. What good is the UN if they're not going to stand by their policies? It's just lip service.

So the Naswer to that was death and destruction? Yeah I guess that will give it some backbone.

Look, now that we are there we can't just pull out. We have to finish what we started. Frankly I think we are waging the occupation on the cheap. I can't believe that Rummy and the Neocons completely ignored Gen Shishinski's recommendation that it would take many more boots on the ground to execute the occupation effectively. It seems more like we are taking a page out of the Israeli?s book on how to fight counterinsurgency and look how well that's worked for the Israeli's?

IMO Bush Screwed the Pooch when it came to Iraq, his misrepresented the facts and now American lives are being lost and we are creating more terrorists than we are suppressing. Looks like a total FUBAR to me.

 

[Turkish]

Your Results:

1. Your ideal theoretical candidate. (100%) Click here for info
2. Kucinich, Rep. Dennis, OH - Democrat (62%) Click here for info
3. Dean, Gov. Howard, VT - Democrat (53%) Click here for info
4. Clark, Retired General Wesley K., AR - Democrat (50%) Click here for info
5. Edwards, Senator John, NC - Democrat (46%) Click here for info
6. Sharpton, Reverend Al - Democrat (46%) Click here for info
7. LaRouche, Lyndon H. Jr. - Democrat (46%) Click here for info
8. Kerry, Senator John, MA - Democrat (45%) Click here for info
9. Gephardt, Rep. Dick, MO - Democrat (43%) Click here for info
10. Libertarian Candidate (39%) Click here for info
11. Bush, President George W. - Republican (34%) Click here for info
12. Lieberman, Senator Joe, CT - Democrat (28%) Click here for info
13. Moseley-Braun, Former Senator Carol, IL - Democrat (27%) Click here for info
14. Phillips, Howard - Constitution (25%) Click here for info

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Rob9874
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031211/nyth120_1.html

2004 Will Be the U.S.'S Best Year Economically in Last 20 Years

Four more years! Four more years!

And during those 4 years I wonder which country is next for one of our patented Pre-emptive Military Strikes? Or do you think we will still be stuck in a Quagmire in Iraq and will be unable to further the Neocons agenda of Pax Americana?

Attacking a nation that has thumbed it's nose at a UN order to disarm after losing a war of aggression is hardly "preemptive." It's funny how the anti-war folks completely ignore 1441 and the fact that every intelligence agency in the world was positive Iraq had WMDs.

Funny how there were wrong. Funny you bring up Clinton. It was his doing that took the knees out of our Inteligence community. If the Dub had dodgy Intel what makes you think that Clinton didn't?

Am I anti War? Well it depends on which war. I fully supported our incursion into Afghanistan and I supported our invasion of Iraq..when I was told a bunch of BS about. It doesn't matter who's the blame for the dodgy Intel, when you are going to put Americans in Harms way and tell the American People that this and that is true you better damn well be correct. If Clinton was so sure how come he didn't get in front of the American People like Bush did and spell out the same scenario? Maybe because the Republicans would have cried BS and not supported him. Of course when Clinton was President we weren't flushed with the patriotism that we were after the 9/11 attacks and Clinton couldn't have played that to get us to support a war based on faulty Intel.

I find it totally disheartening that people like you are willing to forgive the deceit or the incompetence the now has our boys in harm's way and which has done tremendous damage to our image around the world. Bushes Foreign Diplomacy has been a disaster and it seems his exit strategy for Iraq was non existent. Maybe he believed that the Iraqi's would welcome us as Liberators instead of occupiers. Well it seems that he was wrong. I also find it interesting that you would use Clinton to defend Bushes actions LOL🙂

I don't blame the present admin for the crappy intel. Why should I? Our intel agencies were neutered long before he took office.

I love how people think we should already have an exit strategy in Iraq. How long did it take us to turn power over the the new governments of Japan and Germany after WWII? This crap cannot be done in a year.

As for our "image" screw 'em. They got used to 8 years of appeasement and have been given a wake up call. They'll get over it.

Easy for you to say when it's not your ass on the line!

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Rob9874
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031211/nyth120_1.html

2004 Will Be the U.S.'S Best Year Economically in Last 20 Years

Four more years! Four more years!

And during those 4 years I wonder which country is next for one of our patented Pre-emptive Military Strikes? Or do you think we will still be stuck in a Quagmire in Iraq and will be unable to further the Neocons agenda of Pax Americana?

Attacking a nation that has thumbed it's nose at a UN order to disarm after losing a war of aggression is hardly "preemptive." It's funny how the anti-war folks completely ignore 1441 and the fact that every intelligence agency in the world was positive Iraq had WMDs.

Funny how there were wrong. Funny you bring up Clinton. It was his doing that took the knees out of our Inteligence community. If the Dub had dodgy Intel what makes you think that Clinton didn't?

Am I anti War? Well it depends on which war. I fully supported our incursion into Afghanistan and I supported our invasion of Iraq..when I was told a bunch of BS about. It doesn't matter who's the blame for the dodgy Intel, when you are going to put Americans in Harms way and tell the American People that this and that is true you better damn well be correct. If Clinton was so sure how come he didn't get in front of the American People like Bush did and spell out the same scenario? Maybe because the Republicans would have cried BS and not supported him. Of course when Clinton was President we weren't flushed with the patriotism that we were after the 9/11 attacks and Clinton couldn't have played that to get us to support a war based on faulty Intel.

I find it totally disheartening that people like you are willing to forgive the deceit or the incompetence the now has our boys in harm's way and which has done tremendous damage to our image around the world. Bushes Foreign Diplomacy has been a disaster and it seems his exit strategy for Iraq was non existent. Maybe he believed that the Iraqi's would welcome us as Liberators instead of occupiers. Well it seems that he was wrong. I also find it interesting that you would use Clinton to defend Bushes actions LOL🙂

I don't blame the present admin for the crappy intel. Why should I? Our intel agencies were neutered long before he took office.

I love how people think we should already have an exit strategy in Iraq. How long did it take us to turn power over the the new governments of Japan and Germany after WWII? This crap cannot be done in a year.

As for our "image" screw 'em. They got used to 8 years of appeasement and have been given a wake up call. They'll get over it.

Easy for you to say when it's not your ass on the line!

I was in the Army for four years. I was a mechanized TOW Gunner MOS 11HE9 in the infantry.

I've been there, done that.

I don't remember, have you?

 

[amcdonald]

Originally posted by: Vic
You might want to work on your reading skills. I didn't "wish" anything on him. What I said is simply that which is inevitable. I could neither cause it nor prevent it.
Oh, and Matthew 7:1-5

And like GW's war in Iraq isn't really for the same purpose....

May the same mercies be shown to you and you show to everyone else.

may - To be allowed or permitted to: May I take a swim? Yes, you may.
Used to indicate a certain measure of likelihood or possibility: It may rain this afternoon.
Used to express a desire or fervent wish: Long may he live!
Used to express contingency, purpose, or result in clauses introduced by that or so that: expressing ideas so that the average person may understand.
To be obliged; must. Used in statutes, deeds, and other legal documents. See Usage Note at can1.

The bold definition is the one that I thought you were using. Excuse me If I'm wrong.

This thread really needs to be moved to P&N now. 😀

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Rob9874
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031211/nyth120_1.html

2004 Will Be the U.S.'S Best Year Economically in Last 20 Years

Four more years! Four more years!

And during those 4 years I wonder which country is next for one of our patented Pre-emptive Military Strikes? Or do you think we will still be stuck in a Quagmire in Iraq and will be unable to further the Neocons agenda of Pax Americana?

Attacking a nation that has thumbed it's nose at a UN order to disarm after losing a war of aggression is hardly "preemptive." It's funny how the anti-war folks completely ignore 1441 and the fact that every intelligence agency in the world was positive Iraq had WMDs.

Funny how there were wrong. Funny you bring up Clinton. It was his doing that took the knees out of our Inteligence community. If the Dub had dodgy Intel what makes you think that Clinton didn't?

Am I anti War? Well it depends on which war. I fully supported our incursion into Afghanistan and I supported our invasion of Iraq..when I was told a bunch of BS about. It doesn't matter who's the blame for the dodgy Intel, when you are going to put Americans in Harms way and tell the American People that this and that is true you better damn well be correct. If Clinton was so sure how come he didn't get in front of the American People like Bush did and spell out the same scenario? Maybe because the Republicans would have cried BS and not supported him. Of course when Clinton was President we weren't flushed with the patriotism that we were after the 9/11 attacks and Clinton couldn't have played that to get us to support a war based on faulty Intel.

I find it totally disheartening that people like you are willing to forgive the deceit or the incompetence the now has our boys in harm's way and which has done tremendous damage to our image around the world. Bushes Foreign Diplomacy has been a disaster and it seems his exit strategy for Iraq was non existent. Maybe he believed that the Iraqi's would welcome us as Liberators instead of occupiers. Well it seems that he was wrong. I also find it interesting that you would use Clinton to defend Bushes actions LOL🙂

I don't blame the present admin for the crappy intel. Why should I? Our intel agencies were neutered long before he took office.

I love how people think we should already have an exit strategy in Iraq. How long did it take us to turn power over the the new governments of Japan and Germany after WWII? This crap cannot be done in a year.

As for our "image" screw 'em. They got used to 8 years of appeasement and have been given a wake up call. They'll get over it.

Easy for you to say when it's not your ass on the line!

I was in the Army for four years. I was a mechanized TOW Gunner MOS 11HE9 in the infantry.

I've been there, done that.

I don't remember, have you?

Drink a lot of beer in Germany? When I was of age the end of the Viet Nam War was waging and I didn't want to have any part of that seeing that the American Government were just using our soldiers as political pawns, handcuffing the Military preventing them from winning the war, kind of like what Rummy is doing now!

Tell me my friend, if you were 18 or 19 now would you sign up to go fight over in Iraq?

 

[Rob9874]

Your Results:

1. Your ideal theoretical candidate. (100%) Click here for info
2. Bush, President George W. - Republican (91%) Click here for info
3. Libertarian Candidate (57%) Click here for info
4. Phillips, Howard - Constitution (44%) Click here for info
5. Kerry, Senator John, MA - Democrat (35%) Click here for info
6. Gephardt, Rep. Dick, MO - Democrat (32%) Click here for info
7. Edwards, Senator John, NC - Democrat (28%) Click here for info
8. Kucinich, Rep. Dennis, OH - Democrat (27%) Click here for info
9. LaRouche, Lyndon H. Jr. - Democrat (19%) Click here for info
10. Dean, Gov. Howard, VT - Democrat (17%) Click here for info
11. Lieberman, Senator Joe, CT - Democrat (15%) Click here for info
12. Clark, Retired General Wesley K., AR - Democrat (6%) Click here for info
13. Sharpton, Reverend Al - Democrat (4%) Click here for info
14. Moseley-Braun, Former Senator Carol, IL - Democrat (0%) Click here for info

Safe to say I'm not voting for Moseley-Braun!

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Rob9874
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031211/nyth120_1.html

2004 Will Be the U.S.'S Best Year Economically in Last 20 Years

Four more years! Four more years!

And during those 4 years I wonder which country is next for one of our patented Pre-emptive Military Strikes? Or do you think we will still be stuck in a Quagmire in Iraq and will be unable to further the Neocons agenda of Pax Americana?

Attacking a nation that has thumbed it's nose at a UN order to disarm after losing a war of aggression is hardly "preemptive." It's funny how the anti-war folks completely ignore 1441 and the fact that every intelligence agency in the world was positive Iraq had WMDs.

Funny how there were wrong. Funny you bring up Clinton. It was his doing that took the knees out of our Inteligence community. If the Dub had dodgy Intel what makes you think that Clinton didn't?

Am I anti War? Well it depends on which war. I fully supported our incursion into Afghanistan and I supported our invasion of Iraq..when I was told a bunch of BS about. It doesn't matter who's the blame for the dodgy Intel, when you are going to put Americans in Harms way and tell the American People that this and that is true you better damn well be correct. If Clinton was so sure how come he didn't get in front of the American People like Bush did and spell out the same scenario? Maybe because the Republicans would have cried BS and not supported him. Of course when Clinton was President we weren't flushed with the patriotism that we were after the 9/11 attacks and Clinton couldn't have played that to get us to support a war based on faulty Intel.

I find it totally disheartening that people like you are willing to forgive the deceit or the incompetence the now has our boys in harm's way and which has done tremendous damage to our image around the world. Bushes Foreign Diplomacy has been a disaster and it seems his exit strategy for Iraq was non existent. Maybe he believed that the Iraqi's would welcome us as Liberators instead of occupiers. Well it seems that he was wrong. I also find it interesting that you would use Clinton to defend Bushes actions LOL🙂

I don't blame the present admin for the crappy intel. Why should I? Our intel agencies were neutered long before he took office.

I love how people think we should already have an exit strategy in Iraq. How long did it take us to turn power over the the new governments of Japan and Germany after WWII? This crap cannot be done in a year.

As for our "image" screw 'em. They got used to 8 years of appeasement and have been given a wake up call. They'll get over it.

Easy for you to say when it's not your ass on the line!

I was in the Army for four years. I was a mechanized TOW Gunner MOS 11HE9 in the infantry.

I've been there, done that.

I don't remember, have you?

Drink a lot of beer in Germany? When I was of age the end of the Viet Nam War was waging and I didn't want to have any part of that seeing that the American Government were just using our soldiers as political pawns, handcuffing the Military preventing them from winning the war, kind of like what Rummy is doing now!

Tell me my friend, if you were 18 or 19 now would you sign up to go fight over in Iraq?

Yep. I would. In fact, I was rather upset that I was discharged a year before the first Gulf War and most of my buddies went over there without me. But by then, I had a job and a wife and could not go back in.

Oh, BTW, I never made it to Germany. I spent my time at Ft. Benning, Ft. Stewart and some medical leave at Ft. Gordon.