<< Ted Bundy said that porn was fuel to the fire of violence within him.
FWIW >>
Yeah - that doesn't prove anything at all, but if you look at nearly all serial killers and rapists, they use pornography habitually. They also all eat mashed potatoes, but still it is a pretty consistent fact.
<< So how do I think pornography contributes to violence against women? Well, it nurtures the idea that women are objects, which is the first perception needed in the rapist mentality. >>
Personally, I think you nailed it right there.
It's been stated before, but rape is not a crime of passion or sex.
It is a crime of control and violence.
porn causes no problems with respect to your average perv...
but some of those freaks..... mannnnnn...
but some of those freaks..... mannnnnn...
Nice thread/thought provoking posts, KaBudokan.
In my studies of psych, most of the findings were that it isn't the sex so much as it is the context.
If, in the context of a porn flick, women are treated violently or as objects, it does contribute to the perception that women are to be used and abused as men see fit. We become desensitized over time.
I am no prude and I enjoy erotica, but photography and films that depict the sexual abuse of others is potentially harmful.
Sure, you guys can look at a movie depicting a gang bang and get off, but the reality is, no one wants to be gang banged. I just recently read an article on porn stars that was quite eye-opening... it is in the February 2001 Talk Magazine, written by Martin Amis. If I can find a link, I'll post it... if not, it really is worth a look, so try to find a copy.
In my studies of psych, most of the findings were that it isn't the sex so much as it is the context.
If, in the context of a porn flick, women are treated violently or as objects, it does contribute to the perception that women are to be used and abused as men see fit. We become desensitized over time.
I am no prude and I enjoy erotica, but photography and films that depict the sexual abuse of others is potentially harmful.
Sure, you guys can look at a movie depicting a gang bang and get off, but the reality is, no one wants to be gang banged. I just recently read an article on porn stars that was quite eye-opening... it is in the February 2001 Talk Magazine, written by Martin Amis. If I can find a link, I'll post it... if not, it really is worth a look, so try to find a copy.
I read an article in Rolling Stone a few years ago written by a man who had planned to write a book glamorizing porn stars. He realized though, after about 2 weeks hanging around the industry that writing a feel-good book about the topic was impossible. He ended up writing what he felt was "the truth." (Jon Dough, the porn actor, pleaded with him to write the truth, because "nobody ever does."
Your comment made me remember the article, because it talked about how the gangbang movie was the last stop on a fading star's career, and it mentioned how Savannah had done gangbangs as she lost confidence before killing herself. Your comment was right - nobody wants to do gangbangs, not even "pro's."
The other thing that stuck with me clearly from the article was the author talking about the women in the industry. He said he suspected some of them were "products of abuse." What he came to find, however, was that EVERY single woman he talked to in the industry had been abused earlier in her life. Jon Dough laughed when he proclaimed this too him, as if he were an idiot for not knowing that. The one "newcomer to the industry," a young woman who was just starting out had been gang raped when she was 9, and had been raped I think twice after that.
It was a good article, coming from a magazine that often did (does) a good job of glamorizing the porn industry in order to sell copies.
Your comment made me remember the article, because it talked about how the gangbang movie was the last stop on a fading star's career, and it mentioned how Savannah had done gangbangs as she lost confidence before killing herself. Your comment was right - nobody wants to do gangbangs, not even "pro's."
The other thing that stuck with me clearly from the article was the author talking about the women in the industry. He said he suspected some of them were "products of abuse." What he came to find, however, was that EVERY single woman he talked to in the industry had been abused earlier in her life. Jon Dough laughed when he proclaimed this too him, as if he were an idiot for not knowing that. The one "newcomer to the industry," a young woman who was just starting out had been gang raped when she was 9, and had been raped I think twice after that.
It was a good article, coming from a magazine that often did (does) a good job of glamorizing the porn industry in order to sell copies.
13 "No", 11 "Yes."
I'm actually surprised there was that high of a percentage of people saying it does contribute to violence. After all, here at OT people love bragging about the gig's of porn on their hard drives...
I'm actually surprised there was that high of a percentage of people saying it does contribute to violence. After all, here at OT people love bragging about the gig's of porn on their hard drives...
This is a kind of hopeless discussion. Porn doesn't make people violent or turn them into rapists. All it does is create an illusion of normalcy around these phenomena. People are sick, upside down to reality. They watch porn because they don't have meaningful relationships, can't get close, and have no idea what love is. Why would any sane person want to take a sacred wonderful sweet thing like what sex should be and turn it into a show. It is so sad, so sad that is, when you can feel. Those who watch, buy, and support porn add to the total misery in this world. Say no to porn.
Porn doesn't influence violence..it jus makes up a fantasy or sitution that stimulates the mind.
<< Porn doesn't make people violent or turn them into rapists. All it does is create an illusion of normalcy around these phenomena. >>
But you don't think that people believing these things are "normal" and acceptable makes it more acceptable in society?
I'm saying it fills a need for a sick society. It is a symptom, not a cause. Its pervasiveness lends an air or normalcy to what is nuts. Yes
Maybe in the mind of some. Just like perhaps playing Quake in the minds of some idiots means that its okay to go out and kill people. Who knows for sure what goes on in the mind of screwed up people? On the whole, for the mainstream population, I feel safe saying that watching, even violent porno, is very distinctly different from trying to reproduce that oneself.
I think that pornography reduces the violence against women b/c those people can just take it out on the pornography and withdraw that way, instead of going out and actually bringing the violence to the women. That's one aspect.
The other aspect is that the pornography may inspire men to actually think that they can just lug any woman off the street and portray what they have previously seen depicted in the pornograhic material.
These are the 2 issues that I feel need to be addressed, but that's my opinion.
The other aspect is that the pornography may inspire men to actually think that they can just lug any woman off the street and portray what they have previously seen depicted in the pornograhic material.
These are the 2 issues that I feel need to be addressed, but that's my opinion.
A very thought provoking topic i see..
First off, I only WISH that the incident in okinawa had involved "US Soldiers" (implying the US Army). Not that I would wish that type of thing on anyone, but there is a stigma I have seen first hand with the U.S. Marines. Society associates everything we do with Marine affiliation, and while that's good in some ways, every bad apple in the barrel brings shame to the Corps. When an ex-soldier does something bad, the media says 'Man rapes woman in subway.' And yet when a former Marine does something bad, the media says 'former Marine rapes woman in subway.' I suppose that's to be expected because of our branch of service's close-knit structure, but its disturbing nonetheless.
Anyway..back to the topic. It seems to me that while extremely valid points are brought up here, there's something missing. It's sort of like the 'bigger picture' isn't being seen. I won't deny the fact that porn probably has something to do with violence against women, but at the same time, it is not, i think, a major factor. It is one of those minor factors that along with other things, add up to the final product. By looking at the world around you, there are plenty of things that can be considered factors contributing to violence against women. Like another Anandtech-er stated, look at rap music...look at violence being portrayed in general..at how it has become more mainstream. It kind of strikes me as being the same argument as the people in government saying that video games make kids more violent. Ok so maybe there's some truth to that. So... what, you're proposing that we ban all movies not rated "G" and all video games with any sort of violence in it? While we're at it, let's shelter our kids from all the "violent" news in the world so that they can grow up naive and consequently our future generations can be blind to the real world.
Yes, these things play a factor in rape and violence, but like another person stated, tunnel vision also says that "eating potatos" must therefore play a factor as well.
First off, I only WISH that the incident in okinawa had involved "US Soldiers" (implying the US Army). Not that I would wish that type of thing on anyone, but there is a stigma I have seen first hand with the U.S. Marines. Society associates everything we do with Marine affiliation, and while that's good in some ways, every bad apple in the barrel brings shame to the Corps. When an ex-soldier does something bad, the media says 'Man rapes woman in subway.' And yet when a former Marine does something bad, the media says 'former Marine rapes woman in subway.' I suppose that's to be expected because of our branch of service's close-knit structure, but its disturbing nonetheless.
Anyway..back to the topic. It seems to me that while extremely valid points are brought up here, there's something missing. It's sort of like the 'bigger picture' isn't being seen. I won't deny the fact that porn probably has something to do with violence against women, but at the same time, it is not, i think, a major factor. It is one of those minor factors that along with other things, add up to the final product. By looking at the world around you, there are plenty of things that can be considered factors contributing to violence against women. Like another Anandtech-er stated, look at rap music...look at violence being portrayed in general..at how it has become more mainstream. It kind of strikes me as being the same argument as the people in government saying that video games make kids more violent. Ok so maybe there's some truth to that. So... what, you're proposing that we ban all movies not rated "G" and all video games with any sort of violence in it? While we're at it, let's shelter our kids from all the "violent" news in the world so that they can grow up naive and consequently our future generations can be blind to the real world.
Yes, these things play a factor in rape and violence, but like another person stated, tunnel vision also says that "eating potatos" must therefore play a factor as well.
my belief is that porn, like computer violence doesnt affect 99% of the population or affects it ways that are subtle. For the other 1%, they have a "latent" disorder within them which is more likely to be brought out by porn . The disorder could have been caused by abuse, genetics, random factors or anything but it is more likely to be brought out by porn. These people are the rapists and socail deviants etc.
for the other 99%, I believe that the effects are far more subtle and long term and deal with the perception of the world as others have said.
for the other 99%, I believe that the effects are far more subtle and long term and deal with the perception of the world as others have said.
Personally, I think anything as dehumanizing as porn HAS to be bad. I don't know if it contributes to violence, but I believe anything that portrays people as objects is wrong. Here's a good self-test for whether you really think porno is OK: Would you want your sister, mother, girlfriend, daughter, etc to be in a porno movie? If you say no, then you know it's wrong on some level.
I don't think porn is bad for 99.999% of the people who watch it.
The other .001% would most likely have raped a person no matter what.
<< Personally, I think anything as dehumanizing as porn HAS to be bad. I don't know if it contributes to violence, but I believe anything that portrays people as objects is wrong. Here's a good self-test for whether you really think porno is OK: Would you want your sister, mother, girlfriend, daughter, etc to be in a porno movie? If you say no, then you know it's wrong on some level. >>
Using that example, most jobs would be considered bad or wrong on some level.
I wouldnt want my sister, mother, girlfriend, daughter, etc working retail for instance.
That doesnt mean Retail is bad, does it? And yes, retail definately portrays people as objects.
Most jobs do.
If you dont work for yourself or have a trust fund youre feeding off of, you are most likely portrayed as an object every day. (usually for 8+ hours.)
You do what you can to make money in this world. If a woman is comfortable with doing porn, thats her choice. Who are we to tell a woman whats right or wrong?
Porn is a job like any other. If you're good at it you can make lots of money.($1000-1500 a day.)
I'm sure they cry all the way to the bank thinking about how wrong it is.
That's just my opinion though.
The other .001% would most likely have raped a person no matter what.
<< Personally, I think anything as dehumanizing as porn HAS to be bad. I don't know if it contributes to violence, but I believe anything that portrays people as objects is wrong. Here's a good self-test for whether you really think porno is OK: Would you want your sister, mother, girlfriend, daughter, etc to be in a porno movie? If you say no, then you know it's wrong on some level. >>
Using that example, most jobs would be considered bad or wrong on some level.
I wouldnt want my sister, mother, girlfriend, daughter, etc working retail for instance.
That doesnt mean Retail is bad, does it? And yes, retail definately portrays people as objects.
Most jobs do.
If you dont work for yourself or have a trust fund youre feeding off of, you are most likely portrayed as an object every day. (usually for 8+ hours.
)You do what you can to make money in this world. If a woman is comfortable with doing porn, thats her choice. Who are we to tell a woman whats right or wrong?
Porn is a job like any other. If you're good at it you can make lots of money.($1000-1500 a day.)
I'm sure they cry all the way to the bank thinking about how wrong it is.
That's just my opinion though.
grumble.. what about chick flicks.. after a few too many i'm sure its enuph to drive some crazy
and bah, the .01% or whatever that are nutty enuph to be affected by porn would find some other way to express their disorder anyhow.
i'm sure a large percentage of rapists watch football too
and bah, the .01% or whatever that are nutty enuph to be affected by porn would find some other way to express their disorder anyhow.
i'm sure a large percentage of rapists watch football too
<< How often do you get spam about "c**-sucking b*tches," etc? How often do you hear young boys refer to girls as "b*tches" and worse? They call girls "ho's" regardless of whether the girl is promiscuous or not. >>
Little off topic, but that is where this country has gone to pot. (No pun please) We ALLOW and EXCEPT or are FORCED TO EXCEPT.
Story time. Inside a little corner store (candy,newpapers) A teen boy says something like "c**-sucking b*tches,"
As for me I'll take the old days 1.) Give the kid a STERN look. A look that says look out kid. Which he in return would say " Sorry I did not see you mame ... Sorry please excuse me. I did not know there was a lady present in the store. 2.) Yell @ the kid " HEY WHATCH YOUR MOUTH KID0! " 3.) Walk behind the kid and SMACK the back of his head and say " Watch your mouth !" Kid says " Ok ,sorry mister, it wouldn't happen again." BTW-Young ladies have some mouths on them today too. Unheard of in the old days.
Today we ALLOW and EXCEPT or are FORCED TO EXCEPT. A) Kid says it we do nothing allow and except part of the norm. B) We can not do 1 thru 3 of the old days. Why in NJ do 1 or 2 you have just made a TERRORIST THREAT for one thing the second is it was to a child. UT OH here walks in DFYS.(-Division of Family and Youth Services) And your looking @ doing 1 to 3 in the county jail. I highly recomend not even THINKING of doing number(3) of the "old days" because DFYS will make sure your prize will be 5 to 15 in the state prison. So you are FORCED TO EXCEPT. Hmmmmm I wonder if this is how young date rape gets it roots from. I am only 15. Her father CAN NOT touch me nor can her older brother. Come to think of it my own parents can not touch me. I am a minor nothing is going to happen to me... the most do a little juven time and get away from the parents for a six month vacation... The girl is drunk and almost passed out...... hmmmmm... What the heck I got NOTHING to lose... Why not.... Yo Mary com' here b*tch... Hey John what got going with Mary over there ? .....Having some fun with the ho'.... Yo dude me and Mike will be right over.
Did the last part of the story sound real ? Well it is ! Took place last year in a northern town in Bergen County NJ. (I have changed the names)All three got off. Reason : It was brought up by the defense. The fact Mary did not say " NO ! or STOP " Yes I will take the old days when you had rights. The right of the father or older brother to meet John, Mike and Jim on a dark night with a baseball bat. Later when the three of them are lying on the ground say to them " Next time you touch Mary I will KILL YOU ! "
So no porn does not promote rape. We the people do. America is out of the " Now generation " and into "Yo dude ANYTHING goes "
I had the pleasure two months ago. In a dinner the town of Wycoff NJ. Sitting the next table where a young girl laughing away also talking with foul words. I said to my buddy " You know that girl looks like..Before I could say more he stop me and said " Please don't start, OK ?" Sure enough it was the girl. Who her and boyfriend took a ride across the Delware river. Got a room she gave birth. Then her and her boyfriend beat the 5 minute old newborn to death. Good kids DID NOT litter they did throw the baby in the trash. You will be happy to know BOTH the boyfriend and girlfriend are now out. Enjoying life to the fullest ! ALLOW and EXCEPT.
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