Poll: Did Christianity have anything to do with the Crusades?

[peonyu]

The Crusades is commonly mis-characterized. In fact it was not so much a desire to cover the world with Christianity as a desire to defend against the onslaught of Islam. I did actually read a book on it a few years ago

From wiki "The Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Muslim rule and were launched in response to a call from the Christian Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuk Turks into Anatolia."

I know the common man thinks it was just a campaign to run amok in the world and convert everyone to Christianity by the sword, however.

People are gullible, and the media says the Crusades were 100 percent Christian aggression so it must be true. Im sure the Muslims were all raising cute little bunnies back then to and never waged war on anybody, I mean if the media says that...Then it has to be true.

 

[Craig234]

People are gullible, and the media says the Crusades were 100 percent Christian aggression so it must be true. Im sure the Muslims were all raising cute little bunnies back then to and never waged war on anybody, I mean if the media says that...Then it has to be true.

People are gullible, and might fall for your nonsense creating the myth that 'the Muslims never waged war on anybody'.

You are spouting a myth that that's what one side says. Show me the evidence - show me even one link supporting claims 'the Muslims never waged war on anybody'.

And when you can't, admit you are wrong.

 

[dwell]

Difference is, The Crusades were over 700 years ago. 9/11 was nine years ago.

Christians have evolved, Muslims have not.

 

[Infohawk]

Of course Christianity had a huge role in the crusades.

Are you trying to make a point about the relationship between 9/11 and Islam? If so, it's not very clear. Otherwise, not sure how this is politics or news. I've had a mod tell me pure religious discussion does not get to stay in P&N. (Although I disagree.)

 

[Crono]

False Christianity was used as a tool.

An ignorance of the Bible, combined with a desire for power/conquest, spelled the recipe for creating the Crusades.

Taking Jerusalem and the Holy Land was the justification used for the wars, but there is nothing Christian or biblical to support what they did. The idea that God wanted the Europeans to have the land was simply the construct of corrupt religious leadership and powerful rulers.

There is no command in the Bible for Christians to conquer any peoples or take any lands at all, and the only people promised Israel was the Israelites.

The driving force behing the Reformation was the fact that so many people were ignorant of what the Bible truly says; the Roman Catholic system of that time gave power to the words of popes and religious rulers, in contrast to what the Bible says.

 

[hal2kilo]

There is no command in the Bible for Christians to conquer any peoples or take any lands at all, and the only people promised Israel was the Israelites.

The driving force behing the Reformation was the fact that so many people were ignorant of what the Bible truly says; the Roman Catholic system of that time gave power to the words of popes and religious rulers, in contrast to what the Bible says.

Even though most of the population could not even read in those times, the Catholic church did not really want anybody to read the bible except for monks, priests, and their wealthy benefactors. Not too many of them (benefactors) as the church had most of the weath anyway.

 

[Crono]

Even though most of the population could not even read in those times, the Catholic church did not really want anybody to read the bible except for monks, priests, and their wealthy benefactors. Not too many of them (benefactors) as the church had most of the weath anyway.

That's true.

You could see how big an impact the printing press and the wide distribution of the Bible made later on.

That isn't to say ignorance of the Bible still isn't an issue - now it's just shady televangelists and false preachers who manipulate and take things out of context.

Unfortunately, you see even in modern America that political movements use false Christianity as a tool.
True Christianity is non-political. Jesus didn't get involved in any politics, though they did try to use him as a puppet, to make him a king and rally against an oppressive empire.

It's possible to be a Chistian and be involved in politics, but Christianity itself isn't meant to be a tool for propigating political movements. Render to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

It didn't have anything to do with god, if that's what you mean. Christianity was used by a leader (the Pope, the kings) as a banner against a bunch of people whom they agreed should be under them. It was an issue of power, politics, and wealth, not anything supernatural.

 

[Craig234]

Religion may not have been the key issue for the rulers who decided to pursue the crusades, but it was and is key to getting the general population to participate in something that innures to the material benefit of the rulers. Religion is the opiate of the masses.

- wolf

The Pope said those killed in the Crusades would have their sins removed and go to Heaven. Motivated some to go - and fight without worry of getting killed.

That's why some went, but others seemed to be more going for trying to get land or plunder.

 

[LunarRay]

Those guys you see in paintings with the white mantle and the red cross were Templars... There is a very interesting aspect about them...
They amassed great fortune and actually had Kings in their debt... including Philip of France toward the end of their reign. He actually 'conspired' against them and enabled Pope Clement to eliminate them around 1310 or so.. They had lots of power which lasted over a hundred and seventy years. They lorded over just about all aspects of anything money.
In trying to delve into their economic brilliance, I started to see that their motive was not at all religious or the push back of the Muslim from Jerusalem or even in league with the Pope's agenda unless it furthered their own... although, they did more or less follow the papal lead...

I doubt the kings of Jerusalem or anywhere for that matter could have achieved their objective vis a vis the Muslim without the Templars... so.. I think Christianity was the cover used to establish power unto themselves... And, whoever was in their way geographically or financially had to be destroyed in the name of Christianity...

 

[Sinsear]

Difference is, The Crusades were over 700 years ago. 9/11 was nine years ago.

Christians have evolved, Muslims have not.

This.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Probably due that actually happening. On the way to the Holy Lands those Christian Armies practiced on villages of Jews and other non believers.

When at war, war crimes are committed...
It happens every where and at any time. going to war for political, religious, or economic reasons is trivial.

 

[trenchfoot]

Being brutal was and is still a way of subjugating others.

But in the recent past, the process had somewhat morphed into a more kinder, gentler way to conquer and exploit:

1. Send in the missionaries to pacify the masses.

2. Then, Send in the businessmen to exploit the masses and their natural resources and make the masses dependent on them and the missionaries.

3. Follow that up with sending in the troops to protect the missionaries and businessmen from having the masses revolt against their being exploited.

4. Finally, send in the politicians to take over the leadership of the masses and their lands.

Use Hawaii as one example of the aforementioned.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes, it didn't take long for Christians to become assholes.

 

[2Dead]

Another thing to remember is that inheritance (land/wealth/titles) only went to the eldest son. Younger sons were encouraged to join the clergy or to become knights/soldiers in service to king/church and seek our their own fortunes. Looting and plunder was a great way for that. Plus you had the church giving you the ok.

They were already doing this in Europe. The kings and the church encouraged these guys to go do it somewhere else.

 

[dahunan]

They are STILL ON.. just not as transparent... Christian Governments bomb the hell out of oil rich arab/muslim states and as recent as just 50 years ago overthrow whole governments in arab/muslim states so they can steal more oil from them

 

[dahunan]

Difference is, The Crusades were over 700 years ago. 9/11 was nine years ago.

Christians have evolved, Muslims have not.

This.

Difference is you are both still as dumb and sheep-like as those idiots that were led around back then...

 

[dwell]

Difference is you are both still as dumb and sheep-like as those idiots that were led around back then...

Wow, personal insults, the weapon of the argument-less.

 

[piasabird]

I dont know that Catholics are Christians.

 

[LunarRay]

I dont know that Catholics are Christians.

As far as I can tell, 'Catholic' means 'universal'... When Constantine 'adopted' Christianity in or around 312 AD that was the only Christian 'Religion' flitting about. From those 'humble' beginnings came Luther and Knox and the rest of the European contingent... as well as the more 'orthodox' folks in some parts of the European or Russian Empire... And, of course the Ex Defender of the Religion Henry VIII... who brought about the his bit...
Bottom line is that Christians are about the most war mongering of Religions ever to evolve into reality of which the Catholic has the proud pleasure to be among the initial seed, so to speak...

 

[Orignal Earl]

I dont know that Catholics are Christians.

What about Mormons?

 

[woolfe9999]

The Pope said those killed in the Crusades would have their sins removed and go to Heaven. Motivated some to go - and fight without worry of getting killed.

That's why some went, but others seemed to be more going for trying to get land or plunder.

Yes motivations varied by individual, as with participation in anything. What I'm saying is that the motivation tended to be different for commoners who were involved versus aristocracy. Commoners didn't participate because they would get land because they weren't the ones who would actually receive the land or the material benefit. Yet large scale operations like that require the support of masses of commoners. Religion was something used by the wealthy ruling class in those days in order to persuade the commoners to do their bidding. Today they use lobbyists and propaganda; back then it was religion.

- wolf

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

What do you think?

I'm of the opinion that Christianity was an important cause of the Crusades and is still a cause for much of the intolerance we see around the world. The Crusaders committed their crimes in the name of Christianity. Much of the animosity towards the Church of Rome in Catholic countries is based on religious ideas that religious infidels should not be in Catholic areas and that Islam is at odds with Christianity.

A more proper and up to date version would be to ask if Christians are responsible for the Serbian genocide.

Of course, that would hit very close to home and you would HAVE to dwell on it as it is recent.

No one wants to do that so let's go with something that occured in the middle ages because thats all that little nice twat Amused can dream up to make it "equal".

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

I dont know that Catholics are Christians.

I don't know that Sunnis are Muslims? The Shias disagree.

It's fairly fucking simple, if you do good things you are a Christian, if you do bad things you are a Muslim.

So pedophile priests are Muslims.

However according to this way of interpeting faith, all Christians are Muslims, more or less.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Religion was the excuse they used to fulfill their greed, and a great marketing tool.