Poll: Depression is real. Have you experienced it?

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SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: BD2003
That is sooo damn... WRONG!! You do not have to hear voices, you do NOT have to be out of your fsking mind to consider suicide... actually, MOST people do at one point or more during their lifetime.. Suicide and depression are two seperate things, suicidal ideation comes from the fact that you think that death would be easier than life... I have known people who have taken their life because they were bored... i have known people who have taken their life because they could not stand the world they live in, or what they have gone through in life... NONE of them heard any voices... My stance? I believe that you have your life, if you seriously want to end it, that is YOUR choice... i will talk to you, i will try to help you, in any way that i can, if that way means knowing a reliable method... i will give it to you...

Umm, I didnt say that. Read it again asshat.

oh yeah, i forgot... i need a hug... you really don't have a clue, so stop pretending... asshat... who the fsck wants a hug when he wants to staya away from the world?

Go out and meet friends? have someone hug you? yeah... right, sell your ideas and buy a clue... moron...

 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: sobriquet
I was diagnosed with "Major depression with psychotic features", which needless to say was quite an adventure. I was on anti-depressants and anti-psychotics. I was sleeping up to 20 hours at a time, had about three friends, rarely left the house, thought about suicide on a daily basis, thought about killing others quite frequently, felt an overwhelming sense of paranoia, was afraid of everything, and other things of that sort. I was never officially declared "undepressed", just sort of upgraded I guess from major depression. It took 8 months of therapy and 7 months of meds to get that far. I'm just thankful I didn't do something stupid.

congrats on moving forward... i am happy for you... i really am.... :) and actually success stories like yours is what keeps my hopes up... :) thanks!
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: BD2003
That is sooo damn... WRONG!! You do not have to hear voices, you do NOT have to be out of your fsking mind to consider suicide... actually, MOST people do at one point or more during their lifetime.. Suicide and depression are two seperate things, suicidal ideation comes from the fact that you think that death would be easier than life... I have known people who have taken their life because they were bored... i have known people who have taken their life because they could not stand the world they live in, or what they have gone through in life... NONE of them heard any voices... My stance? I believe that you have your life, if you seriously want to end it, that is YOUR choice... i will talk to you, i will try to help you, in any way that i can, if that way means knowing a reliable method... i will give it to you...
Umm, I didnt say that. Read it again asshat.
oh yeah, i forgot... i need a hug... you really don't have a clue, so stop pretending... asshat... who the fsck wants a hug when he wants to staya away from the world? Go out and meet friends? have someone hug you? yeah... right, sell your ideas and buy a clue... moron...

Dude, WTF are you talking about? You go off about suicide when I didnt even mention it in my original post, and now youre going off about me saying people that are sad need a hug?

Did you forget your glasses or something?
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: BD2003
Originally posted by: SnapIT
Originally posted by: BD2003
That is sooo damn... WRONG!! You do not have to hear voices, you do NOT have to be out of your fsking mind to consider suicide... actually, MOST people do at one point or more during their lifetime.. Suicide and depression are two seperate things, suicidal ideation comes from the fact that you think that death would be easier than life... I have known people who have taken their life because they were bored... i have known people who have taken their life because they could not stand the world they live in, or what they have gone through in life... NONE of them heard any voices... My stance? I believe that you have your life, if you seriously want to end it, that is YOUR choice... i will talk to you, i will try to help you, in any way that i can, if that way means knowing a reliable method... i will give it to you...
Umm, I didnt say that. Read it again asshat.
oh yeah, i forgot... i need a hug... you really don't have a clue, so stop pretending... asshat... who the fsck wants a hug when he wants to staya away from the world? Go out and meet friends? have someone hug you? yeah... right, sell your ideas and buy a clue... moron...

Dude, WTF are you talking about? You go off about suicide when I didnt even mention it in my original post, and now youre going off about me saying people that are sad need a hug?

Did you forget your glasses or something?

so "voices that are telling you to kill yourself" aren't connected to suicide?

Damn... i could have sworn you tried to make that connection, maybe it's just me being paranoid... however... maybe not...

And you do NOT have a clue, people who are depressed do NOT need a hug, they do not WANT a hug... they want you to stay the fsck away...

Clearly this discussion is me talking to myself and you trying to understand, and you don't, so let's drop it....
 

naddicott

Senior member
Jul 3, 2002
793
0
76
I have survived depression. Since I have no fear of making the most bone-headed generalizations in the thread (the folks who said 'just snap out of it' get that title) I'll contribute my personal spin:

Self-hatred is a seed and a symptom of most if not all cases of clinical depression.

I agree with one of the earlier posters here who said that self-hatred is intellectually indefensible. No outside influence can ultimately win that argument for the person actively suffering in depression, however. Depression is a dark fog that settles upon its victim and feeds upon itself - blocking out the capacity to consciously address the self hate (or address anything for that matter - depressive behaviour is an extreme form of avoidance).

In some cases (not all) the fog of depression eventually lifts, at least enough to come up for breath once and a while. Taking an anti-depressant can lift the cloud for a while too, except eventually a chemical resistance to the drug may develop. Many people treated only with pills who still hate themselves will either be forced to rotate through various antidepressant medications for the rest of their lives (with a crapload of side effects that the pharmaceutical industry does a great job of covering up/understating) or end up relapsing.

If while surfacing, someone recovering from depression has the opportunity to address their self-hate, conclude for themselves that it's irrational, and replace the hatred with self-acceptance. Self-acceptance is like a strong trade wind that can keep the fog of depression from staying around long. Good psychotherapy is empirically the best long-term tool to facilitate the process, even though the hardest steps are ultimately made alone. Successfully treated therapy patients relapse much less often than those who use meds alone. I'm sure some of the home brew suggestions in this thread work some of the time as well. Take that small goals thing as an example - if by achieving those goals you can deeply convince yourself you're a good person, then more power to you. If you're not that easily convinced (I doubt many serious cases would be), then achieving a string of small goals isn't going to do squat. It's not my path, but I'm sure that finding religion works for a handfull of folks as well.

People who have battled depression and survived are far from weak in character. Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill are high profile cases of depression sufferers who made major contributions to society due to their deep thinking and strength of character (character developed in-part by surviving depression).

Don't take my word for any of this. If you've never been depressed to the point where you couldn't resurface under your own power, please stop it with the normative statements as to what depression is or isn't. Put in some serious research (starting with google & some books from Amazon, then journal research, and finally patiently listening in-person to survivors) to properly inform yourselves or please shut the #### up. Ignorant statements like 'snap out of it!' do nothing but encourage a depressed person convince themselves that they are correct in hating themselves. The response is "well, I've run out of ways to snap out of it, so I must be unfixable and worthless - might as well stop wasting everyone else's oxygen" (a bunch of bull). My point is, what to you might seem like innocent fun arguing about something you don't know about, is fuel for the bonfire of self hatred, guilt, and shame that will kill many good people who don't realize that they aren't alone, that there is hope, and that thinking about depression in terms of 'fault' is pointless.

To those who do know the beast first hand, I'm sorry if I've offended. Ultimately I'm only working with a sample size of one, and everything else is second-hand knowledge. I wish everyone who has depression or will have depression all the luck in the world (wish you the stuff you need in addition to luck too).

The only thing I am sure of is that suicide is never a real solution, it can be seductive at the worst of times, but when you do find your way out of the depression, you'll never regret having made the choice to not kill yoursef.
 

spanky

Lifer
Jun 19, 2001
25,716
4
81
Everything feels muted, and you put yourself down a lot. Just a general recurring sense of hopelessness & despair.

for those who say i have no clue or don't understand... and like to frown upon my comment(s)... would u prefer i suggest that there is no light at the end of the tunnel? if what i am saying offends u, please do clue me in on why... rather then just telling me i have no clue, or that i do not understand.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
so "voices that are telling you to kill yourself" aren't connected to suicide? Damn... i could have sworn you tried to make that connection, maybe it's just me being paranoid... however... maybe not... And you do NOT have a clue, people who are depressed do NOT need a hug, they do not WANT a hug... they want you to stay the fsck away... Clearly this discussion is me talking to myself and you trying to understand, and you don't, so let's drop it....

Its quite obvious youre depressed. But you are either reading into my words too much, taking them out of context, or just not plain reading properly.

I never said people that are depressed need a hug. Never. Show me where I did.

And I never made the connection between voices in your head and suicide. Youre reading way too into that.

If youre that depressed, why dont you seek help rather than go off on everyone telling them they dont know what REAL depression is.

And its not my fault if your depression caused you to fail reading comprehension 101, so the next time you want to flame someone, make sure you know wtf youre talking about.
 

PistachioByAzul

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,132
0
71
Sex, money and power on the mind....so why am I depressed?

I agree that it is our culture that is sick. We live in a manufactured unreality. I think Normality is a lie, it doesn't exist. But that's what our economy thrives on, consumption to fill the void.

"Nature is the source of sanity itself."
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: BD2003
so "voices that are telling you to kill yourself" aren't connected to suicide? Damn... i could have sworn you tried to make that connection, maybe it's just me being paranoid... however... maybe not... And you do NOT have a clue, people who are depressed do NOT need a hug, they do not WANT a hug... they want you to stay the fsck away... Clearly this discussion is me talking to myself and you trying to understand, and you don't, so let's drop it....

Its quite obvious youre depressed. But you are either reading into my words too much, taking them out of context, or just not plain reading properly.

I never said people that are depressed need a hug. Never. Show me where I did.

And I never made the connection between voices in your head and suicide. Youre reading way too into that.

If youre that depressed, why dont you seek help rather than go off on everyone telling them they dont know what REAL depression is.

And its not my fault if your depression caused you to fail reading comprehension 101, so the next time you want to flame someone, make sure you know wtf youre talking about.

*sigh* yeah, i guess you are right... you were just trying to put depressed people down... not non-depressed...

Next time you fscking answer a question, why don't you take the time to find out if you really know the answer or if you just like to read your own words...

I know wtf i am talking about, you, obviously do not.... so shut your trap...
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: spankyOO7
Everything feels muted, and you put yourself down a lot. Just a general recurring sense of hopelessness & despair.

for those who say i have no clue or don't understand... and like to frown upon my comment(s)... would u prefer i suggest that there is no light at the end of the tunnel? if what i am saying offends u, please do clue me in on why... rather then just telling me i have no clue, or that i do not understand.

OK, i will let you in, have you ever felt that there is nothing but hopelessness in this world, have you ever felt that you would be better off dead? Have you ever felt like the world is passing you by, like you don't have any choice...

have you ever felt that it is right to hide away, stop anwering your phone, and when people become worried they will come looking for you but not find you because you hide out in the basement?

have you ever felt like that, no? well, then i guess you don't have a clue... just like the other fool...
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: spankyOO7
Everything feels muted, and you put yourself down a lot. Just a general recurring sense of hopelessness & despair.

for those who say i have no clue or don't understand... and like to frown upon my comment(s)... would u prefer i suggest that there is no light at the end of the tunnel? if what i am saying offends u, please do clue me in on why... rather then just telling me i have no clue, or that i do not understand.

If you haven't been down that hole, you cannot possibly understand... i am sorry, but you just cannot...

For you, it all starts again on monday... your work, you life, your wife/GF/Whatever.. but for some, it i just another day in hell...
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,906
6,788
126
Nice post naddicott.

Depression is the enemy, not each other. I don't want to be sucked in by a my depression is more depressing than your depression either.
----------------------

To SnapIT who said:

This is the typical do-gooder response, i have heard it soooo many times... well, i know that you moonbeam meant no harm, but what you are stating is what we have all heard sooo many times... it does not help, actually, it brings you down, as you cannot conform to that thought...

You did not know this, but now you do...
-------------------------------

I do not see it as a typical do gooder post at all. I see it as a post from a very tormented soul trying in difficult circumstances to survive. I don't want to step on the fingers of people holding on in a place where there may be no alternative. You are thinking of your self, your experience of what does or does not help. It does not help you, it brings you down, you cannot conform, and yet elsewhere you speak of hope. You contradict yourself and that's ok. My own experience with depression tells me a few things about me and maybe therefore others. Depression is a very intolerant place. It cannot tolerate happiness. Depression is a piercing of all illusions that anything has any meaning. It is a black hole that absorbs all light. Those who suffer it have profound problems of self esteem manifested by extreme pride in suffering. We see through illusion, we hurt, but we know the truth. We are the creative, the visionary, the ones who know. (You can see that I was so depressed that I ate my own kids. :D) In short, like everybody else, we have egos and opinions.

Here is what happened to me. I was a sort of Christian. I had no idea about Christianity, went to church a bit when young and thought there was a God. Loved the guy Jesus because he was good and really different, died for his belief and loved his killers. Impressive. I saw a world filled with evil, war and sin and set out to prove to myself and to others, maybe, that there is a God and that the world is good. I began to question, to read and to search. I read lots and searched hard and found that all the wise were fools, they all believed in something or other that rested ultimately on some un-provable assumption. I discovered that there is no meaning to live, that good and evil are equal, one no more preferable in the abstract than the other. The there is nothing but the 'cold benign indifference of the universe'. All the sacrifice, all the heroism, all the virtue in the world, all the love all the understanding, all empty and without meaning or reward. When we die that's the end of everything. Everything I believed died, all my hope, all my desire, all my burning lust for the good, all empty, all without any means of support. My life turned black. I saw through hollow eyes. I know that I would never ever be happy. I was a casualty of truth, I paid the ultimate price for knowing. It cost me everything I treasured and held dear.

I had no reason to live because the pain, I knew, would be a permanent feature of my life forever. There was no hope. But I ran across a book on Zen. I remember reading two things. 1 Not a roof above or a tile to place my foot. Hahahaha! (Here's a guy with a different take on the empty. :D ) 2. A man was chased over a cliff by a tiger. Clinging by a root he looked down and saw a tiger below (that was me) He saw a strawberry growing on the cliff and picked it. It tasted so good. (WTF WTF WTF WTF) He picked it and it tasted so good. WTF. Sounds like goodie tow shoes right, but what's he know about tigers and cliffs then? I got this outrageous notion that there were some people out there who were saying what I was saying, seeing what I was seeing but laughing about it. They were happy and not even just happy, they were enlightened. WTF!

Well one night as I lay awake thinking deeply and longingly for what it was that made me unhappy, I tried everything I could think of, my parents, school, this that, no, no, no, none of that. Why does it matter that the world is meaningless, why do I suffer, why am I without hope? What is this I'm experiencing? I went deeper and deeper, focused harder and harder, more and more fiercely. What is wrong? What is wrong? What is wrong? A huge gust of wind hit the house. I went is a split second from somewhere deep in my mind to total silent awareness, consciousness only of that blast of wind. I awoke in a different world, a world where the question of meaninglessness is completely meaningless as it always has been. Mountains are mountains. Sky is sky. Everything is totally simple. There is only this present moment and it is perfect. My love that had died didn't die. It was buried, deeply buried. It needs no meaning, no purpose to be. It is because it is what I am. 'He who looses himself in my name shall find himself.' Well he who looses himself can find himself too. Stripped of everything, of every illusion, of every hope, of every dream a person is left only with what can't be taken, his true self.

So my suggestion to the depressed is that you are not depressed enough. Get your ass over the cliff and pick that strawberry. :D

But I am only one ignorant soul and don't presume to think that what worked for me is what works for all. About all I can say is that whatever kind of depression it was I had it was blown away by a single gust of wind.
 

spanky

Lifer
Jun 19, 2001
25,716
4
81
Originally posted by: SnapIT
OK, i will let you in, have you ever felt that there is nothing but hopelessness in this world, have you ever felt that you would be better off dead? Have you ever felt like the world is passing you by, like you don't have any choice...

have you ever felt that it is right to hide away, stop anwering your phone, and when people become worried they will come looking for you but not find you because you hide out in the basement?

have you ever felt like that, no? well, then i guess you don't have a clue... just like the other fool...

u're the same guy who said BD2003 has a condescending attitude? well... excuse me. i guess i am violating ur area of expertise. and u assumed i never experienced what u described. well fine, i can see where this conversation is going. fine. u r right. i am sorry for violating ur area of expertise.
rolleye.gif
 

LH

Golden Member
Feb 16, 2002
1,604
0
0
Im sorry to say but there are studies out there. Depression is genetic. My family is a great example, there are about 15 people in therapy/and or on medication.

Heck my brother was just recently diagnosed as a paranoid sczioprenhic bi-polar, he also has OCD. Although there is a large possibility the paranoia/schizophrenia is drug induced, as he did all sorts of heavy drugs for over 10 years.

Depression and mental illness is real.

Depression needs treated with therapy first, and then maybe eventually medication, unless the person has actually almost committed suicide or attempted to committ suicide. Then they need medication and therapy right away.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,949
575
126
What cuases it? And why is there a certain demographic that suffers from it? (to be general, it is mainly in the middle class demographic)
If we do not know what causes some types/forms severe depression, does it detract from the legitimacy of the disorder?

In my case, my depression was caused by despair and despondency, after battling the effects of undiagnosed narcolepsy for nearly a decade, and losing the battle rather handily, not knowing or understanding why every facet of my life was falling apart at the seems, seemingly beyond my control despite a heroic but futile effort to 'fix' what was wrong, with the [un]help of a lot of well-intentioned but completely WRONG advice, the lone exception being one person who recognized the classic symptoms of narcolepsy only because her brother had it, and suggested to me that I see a sleep disorder specialist. Sure nuff, she was correct.

I have likely been suffering from symptoms of narcolepsy since I was 17 or 18 years old, a typical age of onset. It certainly explains much; bouncing my head off the desk at school frequently; waking up in the opposite direction of traffic; suffering from horrible work performance, can't exactly do a good job when you're freaking asleep on your feet; difficulty waking in the morning; falling asleep on friends, family, and significant others at inappropriate times; waking up in the supermarket slumped over the canned goods or propped against a display rack in the same position I had been reaching for some item, a store clerk inquiring whether I was alright, getting to the checkout and not recognizing a single thing I put in my cart as items I preferred or liked; waking up with a spiffy keyboard impression across my face after falling asleep at the computer, or bouncing my head off the screen and slumping out of my chair onto the floor; and the hallucinations...oh those wonderful hallucinations.

Most of that wrong advice being that I needed to make lifestyle changes in order to get myself on a 'regular sleep schedule', or to 'stop partying so much' though I hadn't done any of that in years. Not a lot of partying to be had when just making it home from work without killing myself or anyone else required a measure of sheer will most people will never expend in a month. When sheer will didn't cut it, pain was a quick though temporary fix. I was a smoker so I always had a lighter handy.

My favorite 'advice' was the 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps' type, I just 'lacked discipline', or alternatively, I was lazy. If these 'bootstrap' advocates had to endure for one day what I lived for years, most of them would have thrown in the towel and blown their f-cking brains out. Bootstraps my ass.

So having tried every permutation of possible methods to heal myself, each several times just in case I hadn't given it a good go the last five tries, all proving futile and some only making things worse, I had essentially given up. I didn't know what else to do, so I did nothing, I just waited for the roof to cave in on me or something. I remember passing someone I hadn't seen in a few years, and when they inquired "Hey, what have you been doing with yourself?" my response was a quip "Waiting for death" and continued on my way.

Of course, there was one thing I hadn't tried, and that was asking for help, which was a big no-no.

Why was asking for help not an acceptable option? Because narcolepsy is a disorder, like many others, whose symptoms manifest BEHAVIORALLY. These behavioral symptoms are often, in our society, according to the 'conventional widsom' among a vastly uninformed and ignorant population who attempt to explain things they don't understand, viewed to be the signs of a character flaw or some other personality, discipline, maturity, or emotional failing.

But who am I to judge, I was the one suffering and still believed this. It was 'my fault', this was all somehow my own doing, and if I could just 'get my life together', my 'priorities straight', [insert other favorite 'bootstrap' cliche here], et. al. Other people can work 50 hours per week, take classes part time, find time to socialize, sleep 5 hours per night, and they don't fall asleep at the drive-through speaker, or in the shower, while eating, or taking the DMV test to renew their driver's license. If you can't do that, too, you're probably just lazier or not as ambitious as they. R-R-RIGHT!

For more than 70 years, narcolepsy almost exclusively fell within the scope of PSYCHIATRY because, well because that's where you're sent when 'regular' doctors can't find anything medically wrong with you. Narcolepsy was granted a reprieve from the stigma of psychiatry by a dog, who was observed to have symptoms remarkably similar to human narcolepsy. Dogs don't feign illness for attention, or because they're maladjusted, or lazy, or because they lack character, as it is supposed that humans do.

So when you have a highly observable animal model which mirror characteristics of human maladies, it must cause any thinking person to consider that this may not be purely psychological or mental. It just so happens there are depression models in animals and they are readily observable.

I shutter when I think of all the schizophrenics who were certainly committed to prisons, insane asylums, and mental institutions, when those places were only nominally different than hell, before it was learned that the brain isn't filled with some Magic 'Divine' Spirit and that the heart's sole function is pumping blood, not harboring compassion or 'feelings'.

That 'repository' would be the brain, which is made of billions of neurons. Those neurons and the dozens of known neurotransmitters (probably a fraction of what actually exist) are responsible for everything; memory, judgement, cognitive abilities, reasoning capacity, concentration, mood, personality traits, sleep tolerance, wakefulness, alertness, and all states of mind such as happiness, motivation, ambition, perception, everything. We exert influence over those things only to the extent that the infrastructure permits itself to be influenced.
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: spankyOO7
Originally posted by: SnapIT
OK, i will let you in, have you ever felt that there is nothing but hopelessness in this world, have you ever felt that you would be better off dead? Have you ever felt like the world is passing you by, like you don't have any choice...

have you ever felt that it is right to hide away, stop anwering your phone, and when people become worried they will come looking for you but not find you because you hide out in the basement?

have you ever felt like that, no? well, then i guess you don't have a clue... just like the other fool...

u're the same guy who said BD2003 has a condescending attitude? well... excuse me. i guess i am violating ur area of expertise. and u assumed i never experienced what u described. well fine, i can see where this conversation is going. fine. u r right. i am sorry for violating ur area of expertise.
rolleye.gif

Yes i am the same guy, and i seem to get into discussions with just about everyone, it's ok though...

This is my area of expertise, not from free will, but because this is what happened to me, if you feel like you want to bash me for feeling like sh1t, go ahead, one person more or less who hates me really doesn't matter... i mean it, i really couldn't care less...
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Nice post naddicott.

Depression is the enemy, not each other. I don't want to be sucked in by a my depression is more depressing than your depression either.
----------------------

To SnapIT who said:

This is the typical do-gooder response, i have heard it soooo many times... well, i know that you moonbeam meant no harm, but what you are stating is what we have all heard sooo many times... it does not help, actually, it brings you down, as you cannot conform to that thought...

You did not know this, but now you do...
-------------------------------

I do not see it as a typical do gooder post at all. I see it as a post from a very tormented soul trying in difficult circumstances to survive. I don't want to step on the fingers of people holding on in a place where there may be no alternative. You are thinking of your self, your experience of what does or does not help. It does not help you, it brings you down, you cannot conform, and yet elsewhere you speak of hope. You contradict yourself and that's ok. My own experience with depression tells me a few things about me and maybe therefore others. Depression is a very intolerant place. It cannot tolerate happiness. Depression is a piercing of all illusions that anything has any meaning. It is a black hole that absorbs all light. Those who suffer it have profound problems of self esteem manifested by extreme pride in suffering. We see through illusion, we hurt, but we know the truth. We are the creative, the visionary, the ones who know. (You can see that I was so depressed that I ate my own kids. :D) In short, like everybody else, we have egos and opinions.

Here is what happened to me. I was a sort of Christian. I had no idea about Christianity, went to church a bit when young and thought there was a God. Loved the guy Jesus because he was good and really different, died for his belief and loved his killers. Impressive. I saw a world filled with evil, war and sin and set out to prove to myself and to others, maybe, that there is a God and that the world is good. I began to question, to read and to search. I read lots and searched hard and found that all the wise were fools, they all believed in something or other that rested ultimately on some un-provable assumption. I discovered that there is no meaning to live, that good and evil are equal, one no more preferable in the abstract than the other. The there is nothing but the 'cold benign indifference of the universe'. All the sacrifice, all the heroism, all the virtue in the world, all the love all the understanding, all empty and without meaning or reward. When we die that's the end of everything. Everything I believed died, all my hope, all my desire, all my burning lust for the good, all empty, all without any means of support. My life turned black. I saw through hollow eyes. I know that I would never ever be happy. I was a casualty of truth, I paid the ultimate price for knowing. It cost me everything I treasured and held dear.

I had no reason to live because the pain, I knew, would be a permanent feature of my life forever. There was no hope. But I ran across a book on Zen. I remember reading two things. 1 Not a roof above or a tile to place my foot. Hahahaha! (Here's a guy with a different take on the empty. :D ) 2. A man was chased over a cliff by a tiger. Clinging by a root he looked down and saw a tiger below (that was me) He saw a strawberry growing on the cliff and picked it. It tasted so good. (WTF WTF WTF WTF) He picked it and it tasted so good. WTF. Sounds like goodie tow shoes right, but what's he know about tigers and cliffs then? I got this outrageous notion that there were some people out there who were saying what I was saying, seeing what I was seeing but laughing about it. They were happy and not even just happy, they were enlightened. WTF!

Well one night as I lay awake thinking deeply and longingly for what it was that made me unhappy, I tried everything I could think of, my parents, school, this that, no, no, no, none of that. Why does it matter that the world is meaningless, why do I suffer, why am I without hope? What is this I'm experiencing? I went deeper and deeper, focused harder and harder, more and more fiercely. What is wrong? What is wrong? What is wrong? A huge gust of wind hit the house. I went is a split second from somewhere deep in my mind to total silent awareness, consciousness only of that blast of wind. I awoke in a different world, a world where the question of meaninglessness is completely meaningless as it always has been. Mountains are mountains. Sky is sky. Everything is totally simple. There is only this present moment and it is perfect. My love that had died didn't die. It was buried, deeply buried. It needs no meaning, no purpose to be. It is because it is what I am. 'He who looses himself in my name shall find himself.' Well he who looses himself can find himself too. Stripped of everything, of every illusion, of every hope, of every dream a person is left only with what can't be taken, his true self.

So my suggestion to the depressed is that you are not depressed enough. Get your ass over the cliff and pick that strawberry. :D

But I am only one ignorant soul and don't presume to think that what worked for me is what works for all. About all I can say is that whatever kind of depression it was I had it was blown away by a single gust of wind.

"So my suggestion to the depressed is that you are not depressed enough. Get your ass over the cliff and pick that strawberry. " *sigh*

sure, another do-gooder response... this time dripping with what you THINK is understanding... sure, it's nice and all, but it makes me and everyone who reads it even more depressed (what the FSCK is WRONG with me? WHY can't i snap out of this? everyone else can)... so you see, what you think is a nice answer is really a bashing...

what you do not get is that you don't understand... you just don't... let's leave it at that, shall we?
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
So telling everyone that has never had depression that they have no idea what theyre talking about makes you feel better? Because all I see are dozens of posts from you telling people that they dont know what REAL depression is, like it gives you some sort of authority or power. Well guess what, your depression gives you nothing of the sort. If thats what you want to do, fine, and youre probably not even aware youre doing it, by all means continue flaming everyone.

In the end, I'm not the one with the problems. I hope you get better.
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: BD2003
So telling everyone that has never had depression that they have no idea what theyre talking about makes you feel better? Because all I see are dozens of posts from you telling people that they dont know what REAL depression is, like it gives you some sort of authority or power. Well guess what, your depression gives you nothing of the sort. If thats what you want to do, fine, and youre probably not even aware youre doing it, by all means continue flaming everyone.

In the end, I'm not the one with the problems. I hope you get better.

Thank you for hoping i get better... i don't think i am the expert of depression, i just know a lot about it...

I know i am not perfect, i am perfectly depressed though... i am sorry if i did offend anyone, but i have heard most of these responses (why not pull yourself out of it, it isn't that hard... i have been depressed, my sister/mother/father/dog died) before... of course, short time depression is bad, but a life-long bout of depression is worse, it really is...

anyways, thanx... i probably don't deserve it..
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
From past experience, depression is just the name attributed to the situation many people face were the youth-oriented mind clashes with the necessity for a mature and balanced train of thought.

Upon realizing that change is inevitable and indeed necesary, the "healing" process begins, in which the individual adapts to their newfound situation.


I once had "depression" only to realize that I had come to a point between childhood and manhood, and I was still holding on to my childish ways in am mans world; an obvious incompatability.

Obviosuly, I have changed and now as I once posted"...am THE MAN" :D



This is truely a mans world. When you realize it you'll be fine.
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
0
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
From past experience, depression is just the name attributed to the situation many people face were the youth-oriented mind clashes with the necessity for a mature and balanced train of thought.

Upon realizing that change is inevitable and indeed necesary, the "healing" process begins, in which the individual adapts to their newfound situation.


I once had "depression" only to realize that I had come to a point between childhood and manhood, and I was still holding on to my childish ways in am mans world; an obvious incompatability.

Obviosuly, I have changed and now as I once posted"...am THE MAN" :D



This is truely a mans world. When you realize it you'll be fine.

Yup, that is it, you are very smart... unfortunantly, you are not alone, most people think like you do... no wonder so many people are depressed...

You are THE FOOL

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,906
6,788
126
Hehe, SnapIT, I think I made it perfectly clear, did I not, that I was expressing an opinion that was just my own opinion based on what I experienced? I know hopelessness well. I know exactly how you feel. I remember exactly what I felt when I heard some Zen dude laughing at my state, telling me I suffered from delusions, that my suffering was in my head. I remember well the rage I felt being told I was inept, that I didn't get it, that it was my fault. Well of course I wasn't being told that. I was being shown a door I didn't know existed and I took it as an insult. Happy and sad are two states of mind that can never know each other. Nobody can offer the depressed real hope. I just told a story about one person who was reborn because he died. I don't understand it. I don't know it can happen to you. Zen saved my life. My story is my only gift. What you find so cheerful about my message, that you are not depressed enough, I cannot say. What I know is that Zen put a beloved patriot in my armor. It had the audacity to suggest that everything is totally meaningless and laugh about it. I was offended. Hehe.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,906
6,788
126
My point, I think, is that because we are only at the beginning, at least in the external world, of our understanding of the mind, it's important not to be dogmatic in our diagnosis of the problem of depression. There is evidence for a genetic component that would be hard to separate from a faimly culture thingi. There is evidence for a chemical relationship and yet we know that testosterone levels in men go up and down with social standing. Our hormone levels are affected by our environment, our mental attitude. We know that depression is corolary to negative self image and likely connected to the supression of feeling. We need to be sympathetic to each other, our theories, and the way we treat each other. We know very little. No point in being judgmental. I remember a long ago screaming denial that I was defensive. Heh heh, no fool like the present fool. I think it's good to talk.
 

PistachioByAzul

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,132
0
71
A man was chased over a cliff by a tiger. Clinging by a root he looked down and saw a tiger below (that was me) He saw a strawberry growing on the cliff and picked it. It tasted so good.

Heh, I always loved that. I think Zen saved my life too.

SnapIT wants to justify his pain. What will you do when you've accomplished that? If you admit you are sick, open up your mind and let the sun stream in. Perceptions are just that.
 

purepolly

Senior member
Sep 27, 2002
630
0
0
"So my suggestion to the depressed is that you are not depressed enough."

Moonbeam - You are so on the path. It is a hard lesson which needs to be swallowed before one can appreciate the blessings of depression.


Somewhere I bought into some idea of a life that is supposed to be wonderful and in which I could passively ride along and everything needed will be provided for.

I rode alright, right into the brick wall. Kicking and screaming in pain until I wore myself out.

Then it happened... when I was at my most exhausted and broken, with my beliefs shaken to the core ... call it the light or grace or Providence or whatever you want to call it... my need was provided for, and it had absolutely nothing to do with me, that I know absolutely. I was simply too exhausted - physically, mentally, and spiritually at that point in my life to have provided it or manipulated it, and I had never even voiced the need. It was a true unearned gift, and I'm still amazed it was given to me.

In retrospect , it did come at a price - I had to give up my old beliefs. Belief in right and wrong, belief that I could go through life without changing, belief in passive happiness, and the belief that someday I would get it all perfect.

So to all of you who are depressed, I'm sorry that you feel the pain, but be comforted in that there is a great purpose behind it.

Peace be with you.

:)