Poll: CPU upgrades on the AMD AM4 platform

[Vattila]

Today I finally put in the order for an interim upgrade of my old desktop PC (based on an Asus PRIME B350-PLUS AM4 motherboard with an 8-core Ryzen 1700 "Zen" 14nm CPU with 8 GB of memory). So I will soon enjoy 16-core Ryzen 5950X "Zen 3" N7 goodness. Thanks to AMD for the amazing AM4 platform support!

The new processor should let me upgrade to Windows 11 and give my programming workloads a pretty boost. To give the massively parallel build jobs I run more breathing room, I also added 16 GB of memory for a total of 24 GB. I had planned to only double my current 8 GB, but the price difference was low (£60 vs £40).



I also ordered a cheap 19 inch monitor to replace my secondary monitor that failed a while ago. This will serve as a stopgap solution until I eventually upgrade to a whole new multi-screen desktop setup based on the upcoming AM5 platform (may even go for Threadripper, if I find a good argument) — next year, perhaps.

The longevity of the AM4 platform has been remarkable. Hopefully, AM5 will follow suit. What do you all think? What are your AM4 experiences? Please vote in the poll, and share your story below.

 

[H T C]

PS. Unfortunately, I had the same cemented heatsink scare with the 5950X CPU. After unscrewing the old cooler, it felt stuck. So I considered getting some dental floss, as advised by @moinmoin earlier in this discussion thread, but I then realised it would be quite awkward to get it in between the cooler and CPU, especially with the motherboard still mounted in the case. So, before going to that trouble, I gave the cooler a little shake, and it seemingly came loose — unfortunately with the CPU attached. No pins were bent though, so I got away with it again, luckily.

I had the same problem when i tried to remove my R5 1600 stock cooler and swap it with NH-C14 cooler (after the arrival of the AM4 kit i had ordered from Noctua): described it here.

 

[ElFenix]

1700X -> 3700X and thinking hard about going to 5900X, though i saw something about zen 4 mb available for AM4.

mods can edit the poal, btw. pm one of us nice (with instruction as to what should be added) and perhaps that can be done. don't forget the gratuity!

edit: nevermind there's already the max responses

 

[Tech Junky]

Sounds like everything came together nicely once completed.

Those fan profiles look better too. If you can't fit the 2nd fan on you might be able to move it up on the one side to make it fits or use a different size fan like a 120 if it came with 140's. I order 5-packs of fans in both sizes for builds knowing I'll use most of them and have a couple of spares if needed in a pinch. The cooler I used on my 12700K came with a fan but, I didn't even open it because I had a couple of 120's waiting for it from a different build. They're snug fit though on both sides of the cooler between RAM clearance on one side and the IO shroud on the other. Plus the exhaust fan doesn't leave much room to move things around.

 

[Vattila]

If you can't fit the 2nd fan on you might be able to [...]

Thanks for the good advice. Noctua NH-D15 has the primary fan in the middle of its split heat sink design, and the optional secondary fan usually goes on the side of the memory modules (towards the front of the case), I think. But in my case, there is no room there. However, there is room on the other side between the rear case fan and the cooler, so I could mount it there, just like your picture shows, I presume. It is an option, if I want to increase cooling capacity later. However, I will go with the near-silent operation in single-fan mode for now. Then again, perhaps two fans spinning slower is quieter than one fan spinning faster.

Alternatively, I could use the optional low-noise adaptor cable, but I don't think there is much to gain, as at idle, the cooler is probably already drowned out by the rear fan and the PSU fan, especially. Anyway, good to have options!

 

[bigboxes]

Thanks for the good advice. Noctua NH-D15 has the primary fan in the middle of its split heat sink design, and the optional secondary fan usually goes on the side of the memory modules (towards the front of the case), I think. But in my case, there is no room there. However, there is room on the other side between the rear case fan and the cooler, so I could mount it there, just like your picture shows, I presume. It is an option, if I want to increase cooling capacity later. However, I will go with the near-silent operation in single-fan mode for now. In fact, I could mount the optional low-noise adaptor cable as well, but I don't think there is much to gain, as at idle, the cooler is probably already drowned out by the rear fan and the PSU fan, especially. Then again, perhaps two fans spinning slower is quieter than one fan spinning faster. Anyway, good to have options!

 

[bigboxes]

 

[Vattila]

[Image showing NH-D15's optional fan mounted slightly offset in height to clear the memory modules.]

Thanks! I briefly considered that solution, but wasn't sure it would mount firmly like that. I feared it also might extend into the side panel in my case. But great to have all this flexibility with this cooler.

PS. Although not described in the NH-D15 installation manual, this mounting technique for the second fan is mentioned on the box: "In chassis with more than 165mm CPU cooler clearance, the front fan can be moved upwards to make room for memory modules taller than 32mm". My Corsair Vengeance LPX modules are 33.53 mm tall.

 

[Tech Junky]

Thanks! I briefly considered that solution, but wasn't sure it would mount firmly like that. Great to have all these options!

We tend to make the most of a situation and with the Arctic pwm pst fans they daisy chain and only use a single header. Nice thing about more than a single fan is redundancy if one fails you have time to replace it without melting things.

 

[igor_kavinski]

So, before going to that trouble, I gave the cooler a little shake, and it seemingly came loose — unfortunately with the CPU attached. No pins were bent though, so I got away with it again, luckily.

I'm never using paste with an AM4 CPU, ever!

 

[Vattila]

I'm never using paste with an AM4 CPU, ever!

Yeah, graphite pads, as @Tech Junky advices, is probably a simpler and safer way to go, if you plan to replace your CPU or cooler.

The thing I have learned is that the CPU can and will (with some force) come loose from the AM4 socket, even if properly locked, and this is (perhaps) by design, as not to damage the socket, or rip pins out of the CPU, when pulled by a stuck heatsink. Also, the advice to twist the cooler is not as easy as it sounds, for some coolers at least. In particular, on the stock cooler for Ryzen 1700, the four mounting feet and spring-loaded screws sit firmly onto the screw mounts, pulled down by the bond between the heatsink and the CPU, thereby resisting any twisting force, as far as I found. Also, when it comes to the twisting technique, it is important that you push and not pull at the same time as you twist, so that you do not accidentally rotate the CPU out of the socket, bending the pins. In my case, pushing down on the screw mounts just further impeded the twisting force, so it felt like no use at all.

PS. By the way, here are AMD's instructions for removing the Ryzen 1700 stock cooler with spring-screws (note step 3):

If your system has been powered off for some time, the existing thermal grease may be in a hardened state which could make removing the CPU cooler difficult and potentially damage the CPU in the process. If feasible, power on the system for a few minutes to soften the existing thermal grease.

1. Power down the system and switch off the PSU, disconnect the fan power lead from the CPU fan header on the motherboard. If applicable, disconnect the RGB cable from CPU cooler and the RGB header on the motherboard.
2. Follow a diagonal pattern across the CPU cooler, using a screwdriver turn each spring-screw a full turn counter-clockwise. Continue until each spring-screw is separated from the motherboard backplate.
3. Lightly twist the CPU cooler clockwise and counter-clockwise to loosen the seal between the heatsink and the lid of the CPU.
4. Carefully lift the CPU cooler from the CPU. When done correctly the CPU should remain seated in the socket.

How to Install or Remove an AMD CPU Cooler | AMD

 

[Tech Junky]

The pads take the hassle out of the whole situation and they don't harden into concrete binding the two together. Nor do they degrade over time like paste or LM. keeps you from bricking your pants when things suddenly dislodge from the mobo.

 

[bigboxes]

Thanks! I briefly considered that solution, but wasn't sure it would mount firmly like that. I feared it also might extend into the side panel in my case. But great to have all this flexibility with this cooler.

PS. Although not described in the NH-D15 installation manual, this mounting technique for the second fan is mentioned on the box: "In chassis with more than 165mm CPU cooler clearance, the front fan can be moved upwards to make room for memory modules taller than 32mm". My Corsair Vengeance LPX modules are 33.53 mm tall.

The question is how much clearance for the CPU cooler does your case have? That ram of yours does not have a tall heatsink. You probably could just move the rear fan up a notch or two. Less than I had to. I think I got the right case.

 

[Vattila]

I have now turned on memory overclocking (XMP, or "DOCP" as it is called in the Asus BIOS). This takes my Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-2666 modules from 2133 JEDEC speed to the rated 2666. However, my software compilation stress test did not show significant improvement — the results were within the error margins of the previous tests at the 2133 speed. Running the memory at the higher speed may be fine, but since I do work and keep my records on this machine, and hence would hate to get silent bit errors in open files, I think I will revert to JEDEC settings — especially since there is no obvious gain to be had.

 

[DrMrLordX]

I can neither confirm or deny that, Senator.

Hope you aren't saying that to Senator Armstrong.

 

[Vattila]

Just a comment on the noise level from the upgraded system: As I wrote earlier, noise is definitely not worse than before, despite having connected the rear case fan (on Low setting) and removed improvised cardboard sound dampening, thereby improving the air flow in my case immensely. There is no whine or hum — just tolerable soft white noise from the fans. Today, it is a breezy day here in Glasgow, as it often is, and the fan noise from the idling system is easily drowned out by rustling leaves in the tall trees outside my window.

The noises I particularly don't care for are rattles, hums and whines, and thankfully there are no such noises coming from the three fans in my system (NH-D15 single fan, case fan and PSU fan are all good in this regard). Like I mentioned before, my HP LP2475w monitor has some slightly annoying coil whine. But even worse is the booming hum of the secondary hard-drive. So I have set the hard-drive to spin down to eliminate this noise. Note that, annoyingly, Windows 10 likes to spin up hard-drives regularly. This behaviour can be mitigated with some OS settings though. Here is a great step-by-step guide on how to keep hard-drives spun down when not in use:

 

[Tech Junky]

@Vattila when you get older you won't hear those things anyway Ambient noise tends to drown out these minor annoyances vs sitting in a silent room. The low DB nature of all the pesky things are easy to mute through music / tv / wind blowing through the trees / etc. Also, sitting further away from the case helps.

 

[Timorous]

No love for Bristol Ridge in the poll?!

I used one to update the BIOS to add compatibility for my 2200G when I first got my B350M Mortar.

 

[Vattila]

Looking at the poll, with 60 voters having taken part by now, we already have some interesting statistics. The conventional wisdom that upgrading every generation has poor value seems to bear out in the first couple of generations of "Zen". Among those upgrading from the first generation "Zen", 150% more skipped a generation or two to "Zen 2" or "Zen 3" ((13 + 7) / 8), and among those upgrading from "Zen+", 75% more skipped a generation to "Zen 3" (14 / 8). However, there is seemingly a big anomaly from "Zen 2" to "Zen 3", with 24 voters making this single-generation upgrade. That is 71% more than the most popular multi-generational upgrade; "Zen+" to "Zen 3" (24 / 14).

What made the "Zen 2" owners do the "Zen 3" upgrade in such numbers?

 

[Markfw]

Looking at the poll, with 60 voters having taken part by now, we already have some interesting statistics. The conventional wisdom that upgrading every generation has poor value seems to bear out in the first couple of generations of "Zen". Among those upgrading from the first generation "Zen", 150% more skipped a generation or two to "Zen 2" or "Zen 3" ((13 + 7) / 8), and among those upgrading from "Zen+", 75% more skipped a generation to "Zen 3" (14 / 8). However, there is a big anomaly from "Zen 2" to "Zen 3", with 24 voters making this single-generation upgrade. That is 71% more than the next most popular multi-generational upgrade; "Zen+" to "Zen 3" (24 / 14).

What made the "Zen 2" owners do the "Zen 3" upgrade in such numbers?

The performance difference was huge. Way more than any other upgrade.

Example of all my upgrades. Start: Got a 1700x and an 1800x as soon as they were available.
Sold the 1800x and got a 2700x
got another 2700x
got a 3950x.
sold the 2700x's and got 3900x's.
Bought a 5950x.
Bought 3 more 3900x's
Sold and upgraded 3 3900x's for 3 5950x's
Bought 2 more 5950x's

I might even have forgotten a few steps. See sig for current

 

[Vattila]

The performance difference [from "Zen 2" to "Zen 3"] was huge.

That would make some sense. "Zen 3" was the first generation that could match or surpass Intel on single-threaded performance. That may have persuaded some to do a single-generation upgrade. Then there is the 5800X3D as well, which set new performance records in (some) games.

On the other hand, it could also be that "Zen 2" (which was a big jump to TSMC's N7 manufacturing process) saw a big increase in the number of customers, so that even though 24 seems a notable large number of customers doing a single-generation upgrade in this poll, in reality, there may be a larger proportion of "Zen 2" customers waiting for "Zen 4" (or later, or an Intel alternative) to do an upgrade. In other words, in the end, a larger proportion of customers may indeed be skipping a generation (or more), just as expected. It may just be that "Zen 2" success is showing up in the numbers here.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It is just that "Zen 2" success is showing up in the numbers here.

For me, it was "the proof in the pudding" with Zen2's improvement over Zen(1), such that that made me want to experience the improvement of Zen3 over Zen2, likewise.

Plus, for me, I wanted more cores, so I went from a 1600 to a 3600 to a 5900X.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Zen3 had compelling ST performance gains over Zen2. It was hard for me to say "no" to it and wait for Zen4. It's been a long wait, too.