Poll: are a lot of teachers dumb?

[jessicak]

ok so my friend asked me to post this for him...here goes...

exceptions:
math and science high school teathers

can someone explain to me why the hell teachers are complaining day and night about their pay and benefits? teaching in K-12 (except math and science high school teachers) takes no skill. look at the curriculum of a teaching credentials comparing to other *real* professional credentials/licenses. hmm where should i start... do teachers have to take tests ANYWHERE near the level of EIT (Engineers in training, 8 hours) or PE (Professional Engineer 16-20 hours) exams? doctors and lawyers have to take even more tests (i think). they get so many holidays that other professionals don't get.

teaching standards needs to be raised. old teachers that don't keep up with new stuff should be fired. that means regardless of what grade the teachers teach (for instance, K-5 teachers that are qualified to teach math should at least know some calculus) they should have a degree in the subject area (guess what, if you can't even finish a mathED degree maybe you shouldn't be teaching as some kids that are smarter than you). credential programs should be eliminated. those who worked in engineering and medical fields should automatically be allowed to teach without some credentials program. credential programs are ways for teacher unions to hide their own incompetence because they are not capable. why are teachers so freaking scared of standardized tests? MOST other western countries have them. it's a way of measuring what the students have learned. what are teachers capable of besides teaching? flipping burgers? they teach the same thing over and over again. what kind of skill does that require? memorization skills?

college professors, on the other hand, are smart people.

"those who can't do, teach."

believe it or not i want to be a math/physics teacher after im done making enough money in engineering. i believe kids need a teacher that knows what they're talking about.

 

[vegetation]

I'm guessing you're generalizing it too much. I have seen some teachers who aren't really bright but there's a lot who are quite intelligent and not necessarily math or science teachers either. Most school systems give pay advancements for teachers who continue their education all the way to a doctorate degree so there's some incentive already built-in.

 

[minendo]

teaching in K-12 (except math and science high school teachers) takes no skill

Now that is a crock of sh!t. This coming from a guy that cracks jokes about teachers since my sister is getting an education degree.

 

[Anubis]

well sort of, id say that more of them just dont give a fusk about what they do so they do it sh!tty

 

[Jzero]

You don't know a whole hack of a lot about teaching, I see. Actually, the certification tests are quite hard, and there is a good deal of theory behind HOW to teach children.

I can't speak for other states, but in NJ I can say that they have no place griping about pay and benefits. Most are getting at least mid $30k, which considering full benefits, 10 months, lots of sick/personal/holiday time off and the ability to retire with full benefits if you are 55 years old and have worked more than 25 years, and the security of it being almost impossible to lose your job once you are tenured, it's a pretty sweet deal. You might not be rich, but you can certainly be comfortable.

My college professors were "smart" but a lot of them were idiots and couldn't teach worth a damn. There should be better screening of them...but that's a rant for another thread.

 

[FleshLight]

Originally posted by: minendo

teaching in K-12 (except math and science high school teachers) takes no skill

Now that is a crock of sh!t. This coming from a guy that cracks jokes about teachers since my sister is getting an education degree.

Agreed, while it sounds easy, it is a very difficult profession. Kids are evil.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I spend A LOT of time traveling around the US, teaching teachers in a certain subject; my job requires frequent correspondence with teachers as well.

Yes, many are dumb.

Yes, it is a very sad fact.

Many teachers can't read nor follow directions properly.

Yes, many shouldn't be teaching, but as it is, there is a shortage, and many are planning to retire in the next few years. We need more ex-engineers and ex-doctors, etc. teaching, but that won't happen as long as they are paid as low as they are.

 

[Chumpman]

1/4 of my teachers are incompetent and should be fired

 

[jessicak]

Originally posted by: Jzero
You don't know a whole hack of a lot about teaching, I see. Actually, the certification tests are quite hard, and there is a good deal of theory behind HOW to teach children.

I can't speak for other states, but in NJ I can say that they have no place griping about pay and benefits. Most are getting at least mid $30k, which considering full benefits, 10 months, lots of sick/personal/holiday time off and the ability to retire with full benefits if you are 55 years old and have worked more than 25 years, and the security of it being almost impossible to lose your job once you are tenured, it's a pretty sweet deal. You might not be rich, but you can certainly be comfortable.

My college professors were "smart" but a lot of them were idiots and couldn't teach worth a damn. There should be better screening of them...but that's a rant for another thread.

it wasn't me wrote that!

 

[boomdart]

Example of teacher idiocy:

Dr. Carmack will write on the board, try to explain to us how to convert binary digits into 2's compliment, 10's compliment, letters, etc... He'll be about half way through, step back and say "Where did that negative come from? I think there is an extra 0 there... Y'know what?" *erases the board* "Don't worry about it, it's a take home test and You'll never see this stuff in real life."

My math teacher would also simply skip all the steps needed to teach how to do a problem and expect no questions to be asked

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I spend A LOT of time traveling around the US, teaching teachers in a certain subject; my job requires frequent correspondence with teachers as well.

Yes, many are dumb.

Yes, it is a very sad fact.

Many teachers can't read nor follow directions properly.

Yes, many shouldn't be teaching, but as it is, there is a shortage, and many are planning to retire in the next few years. We need more ex-engineers and ex-doctors, etc. teaching, but that won't happen as long as they are paid as low as they are.

Funny thing but for the first time in my life I am facing a potential lay off and oddly enough I am actually considering entering teaching. It would mean at least a 35% cut in pay but in exchange I would get the small satisfaction of perhaps influencing someones life, along with the other benefits you listed above. There is a large enough shortage of math, science, and tech teachers here that I would be able to start and have 3 years to complete my certification.

 

[gistech1978]

those that can do
those that cant teach.

 

[SuperTool]

There are dumb teachers, just like there are dumb ___________s.
A good teacher is worth his or her weight in gold.

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
There are dumb teachers, just like there are dumb ___________s.
A good teacher is worth his or her weight in gold.

Agreed. I've met unqualified people in every profession; I'd hardly say that teachers are more incompetent on the average than anyone else. And besides that, a great teacher can make a huge difference in many, many people's lives.

 

[yhelothar]

I guess I could say that most my teachers are pretty knowledgeable in what they teach, just some occaisional ones that have to teach a very broad range of subjects. Like 8th grade natural science, my teacher was teaching stuff she read off a site. If you asked her any questions, she would give out this dumb answer of what she thinks, and it obviously shows her lack of knowledge in the subject.

Same went for my tech lab teacher in middle school and high school. They were trying to teach computers when they read the 1990 book about computers. They knew the baseline stuff, like computers use binary data, store data in RAM. Though they didn't know computer stuff in general. For example in middle schoool, my teacher was trying to install Myst on the computers with Windows 3.1. There were two folders, Setup16, and Setup32. Yes he opened Setup32, not knowing windows3.1 is only 16bit.

Most of my teachers are pretty good teachers, but then again that might be because I don't know anything about the subject myself, so I just accept what they teach as true. But if you knew really well the material they are teaching before they taught it, then you catch their ineptness.

 

[l3ored]

I am a junior in highschool and 3 out of 5 of my teachers are absolutely terrible teachers. My math teacher cannot teach at all, 1 person even cares to learn the stuff and does so by reading the book while ignoring the teacher. this is how i do my homework also. an hour of the class time is taken up with copying notes out of the textbook onto binder paper, both we bring to class every day, and take home every day. the last half hour of class she "goes over the homework" where we all copy it down and pretend we did it. bottom line: she could be replaced by a textbook, which would do a much better job of teaching math. we have tried to get her fired with a petition once before, we got as far as an interview in which they decided that she met the teaching standards (i guess because all the stuff we were supposed to learn was in the book), but thats as far as they went, with no investigation in her teaching skills.

my science teacher does not even attemt to teach, we are required to read a chapter in the book and do the lesson summary afterward and turn it in every week. this works just fine though, because he doesnt waste an hour and a half of my life taking a crap on my brain.

i saved the worse for last, my english teacher. she is fresh of the boat from taiwan and speaks less english than the students. i believe that an english class should further your skills in writing the language, but she only assigns busywork. she claims to have written a few books (in chinese) but the writing styles of chinese and english authors differ greatly. you would imagine that writing incorporates the same things in any language, but you would be wrong. she has given us examples of how we should write, and (im not making this up) every single thing she writes is a metaphor to chinese culture, its sick.

what makes my life in school worse, is that these three teachers make up one day in school, im suprised im not insane yet...

 

[l3ored]

there are good teachers and there are bad ones, the bad ones should get fired. 'nuff said

 

[DrPizza]

I'll be the first teacher to respond to you Jessicak
(fortunately, I teach math (calculus) *AND* physics, so I guess you excepted me already.

I agree with you too a degree, but you're making kind of a broad generalization. I find that a LOT of elementary education teachers don't know math well enough to be teaching math. I'd love to see students who had competent math teachers for the 9 years before they get to me... I could do so much more with them.

My math teacher would also simply skip all the steps needed to teach how to do a problem and expect no questions to be asked

reply to this poster: There's a certain level of competence that a teacher should expect you to have mastered. It sounds more like you simply don't have the skills that you should have. I can't think of a single example in high school mathematics where more than 2 new steps are added to a problem. Personally, I don't waste the time of the students who pay attention by continuing to show all of the steps that have been done on hundreds of previous problems. But, I may be wrong in your case, but I'll leave the proof to you - find one example from your math notebook and type it in, skipping the steps that were skipped. Somehow I don't quite believe you. Quite honestly, there are problems I've done in calculus class where I've shown 1 step, skipped the next 20 steps, and wrote the answer. However, that gives me the time to do half a dozen more examples rather than waste an entire class on 1 or 2 problems. And, it gives my students more time to examine and master the new material, without being bothered by what we'd consider "trivial."

But, back to you Jessicak - your assertion is correct for a decent percentage of teachers. And, I'll bet the level of competence drops even more in bigger cities. Most elementary teachers can handle the subject matter for English and Social Studies, and lets not forget that they have to keep the kids in control (not all do) and keep track of grades, etc. But, it's difficult to find teachers who can handle math and science competently. It's fortunate that more states are now requiring teachers to MAJOR in the subject they're going to teach, rather than major in education and minor in their subject area. Personally, I completed the same major that the other applied math majors completed at my university, graduating summa cum laude and ranking 1st in the entire school during my junior year (I don't know my rank when I graduated though... got a damn B in art class and a B+ in history - killed my GPA). I hope that's enough to convince you that I have some intelligence. And, from my position, I'd like to point out that I know many teachers in other subjects besides math and science who are very, very intelligent and quite talented.

As far as the 10 months of teaching a year, you're right. I probably wouldn't teach if I didn't have summers off. Although I love to teach, I also love the subjects I teach - I'd simply work elsewhere making a bundle of money more than I make now. Not only that, but I wouldn't have to take my work home with me. No more 1 1/2 hours of correcting per test per class. Sometimes I time my classes to all have tests on a Friday, but that means 5 or 6 hours minimum during the weekend to correct. Don't forget that some teachers are also involved in extra-curricular activities. Recently, my school put on a play. I was one of the assistants for the play. I saw my family for about 5 hours total during the final 3 weeks of play rehearsals. I doubt I put in less than 100 hours for the play. Then there are the other extra curricular activities. After Easter break, some of my good students requested that we form a chess club - I volunteered to be the advisor so they could meet after school.

So, don't be too quick to generalize... sure, it's only 10 months of the year - but the hours during those months are hardly 8 - 4 days, at least for many of the teachers.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I'll be the first teacher to respond to you Jessicak
(fortunately, I teach math (calculus) *AND* physics, so I guess you excepted me already.

I agree with you too a degree, but you're making kind of a broad generalization. I find that a LOT of elementary education teachers don't know math well enough to be teaching math. I'd love to see students who had competent math teachers for the 9 years before they get to me... I could do so much more with them.

My math teacher would also simply skip all the steps needed to teach how to do a problem and expect no questions to be asked

reply to this poster: There's a certain level of competence that a teacher should expect you to have mastered. It sounds more like you simply don't have the skills that you should have. I can't think of a single example in high school mathematics where more than 2 new steps are added to a problem. Personally, I don't waste the time of the students who pay attention by continuing to show all of the steps that have been done on hundreds of previous problems. But, I may be wrong in your case, but I'll leave the proof to you - find one example from your math notebook and type it in, skipping the steps that were skipped. Somehow I don't quite believe you. Quite honestly, there are problems I've done in calculus class where I've shown 1 step, skipped the next 20 steps, and wrote the answer. However, that gives me the time to do half a dozen more examples rather than waste an entire class on 1 or 2 problems. And, it gives my students more time to examine and master the new material, without being bothered by what we'd consider "trivial."

But, back to you Jessicak - your assertion is correct for a decent percentage of teachers. And, I'll bet the level of competence drops even more in bigger cities. Most elementary teachers can handle the subject matter for English and Social Studies, and lets not forget that they have to keep the kids in control (not all do) and keep track of grades, etc. But, it's difficult to find teachers who can handle math and science competently. It's fortunate that more states are now requiring teachers to MAJOR in the subject they're going to teach, rather than major in education and minor in their subject area. Personally, I completed the same major that the other applied math majors completed at my university, graduating summa cum laude and ranking 1st in the entire school during my junior year (I don't know my rank when I graduated though... got a damn B in art class and a B+ in history - killed my GPA). I hope that's enough to convince you that I have some intelligence. And, from my position, I'd like to point out that I know many teachers in other subjects besides math and science who are very, very intelligent and quite talented.

As far as the 10 months of teaching a year, you're right. I probably wouldn't teach if I didn't have summers off. Although I love to teach, I also love the subjects I teach - I'd simply work elsewhere making a bundle of money more than I make now. Not only that, but I wouldn't have to take my work home with me. No more 1 1/2 hours of correcting per test per class. Sometimes I time my classes to all have tests on a Friday, but that means 5 or 6 hours minimum during the weekend to correct. Don't forget that some teachers are also involved in extra-curricular activities. Recently, my school put on a play. I was one of the assistants for the play. I saw my family for about 5 hours total during the final 3 weeks of play rehearsals. I doubt I put in less than 100 hours for the play. Then there are the other extra curricular activities. After Easter break, some of my good students requested that we form a chess club - I volunteered to be the advisor so they could meet after school.

So, don't be too quick to generalize... sure, it's only 10 months of the year - but the hours during those months are hardly 8 - 4 days, at least for many of the teachers.

When you are a teenie bopper aren't all adults dumb?

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: Linflas

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I spend A LOT of time traveling around the US, teaching teachers in a certain subject; my job requires frequent correspondence with teachers as well.

Yes, many are dumb.

Yes, it is a very sad fact.

Many teachers can't read nor follow directions properly.

Yes, many shouldn't be teaching, but as it is, there is a shortage, and many are planning to retire in the next few years. We need more ex-engineers and ex-doctors, etc. teaching, but that won't happen as long as they are paid as low as they are.

Funny thing but for the first time in my life I am facing a potential lay off and oddly enough I am actually considering entering teaching. It would mean at least a 35% cut in pay but in exchange I would get the small satisfaction of perhaps influencing someones life, along with the other benefits you listed above. There is a large enough shortage of math, science, and tech teachers here that I would be able to start and have 3 years to complete my certification.

While job hunting last fall, I decided to take my mom's advice and substitute teach. I substitute taught 5th and 6th grade math as well as computer science / computer club at my former private school. I discovered that I LOVED teaching; it is very rewarding. There is a shortage of good male role-models too, so I have been told by many teachers. I love that I am still in the academic vein with my current job, but should I need to change jobs, teaching will be at the top of my list.

 

[cherrytwist]

Originally posted by: gistech1978
those that can do
those that cant teach.
those that can't teach, teach gym

FIXED.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Anubis
well sort of, id say that more of them just dont give a fusk about what they do so they do it sh!tty

 

[thomsbrain]

your friend will likely change his/her tune after their first year of teaching. yes, some teachers are idiots, but being a good teacher takes a lot of skill. if it didn't, we'd have more good teachers. and in general i've found most high school teachers are better teachers than college professors. having a PhD is pretty much meaningless when it comes to passing information on to other people. that's why they have to have "study" sessions taught by students to do the real teaching for them, because the profs are incapable or unwilling to do it adequately on their own.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: cherrytwist

Originally posted by: gistech1978
Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.
Those that can't teach, teach gym.

FIXED.

 

[gistech1978]

Originally posted by: cherrytwist

Originally posted by: gistech1978
those that can do
those that cant teach.
those that can't teach, teach gym

FIXED.

watched school of rock recently?