Almost all of the teachers I know have a very strong content background meaning that they know thier sh!t. However, a lot of them can't teach. Forget all the crap you've heard, teaching is a skill, and some people have it while others do not. Student teaching has taught me this, especially with the little ones. Just because I know something doesn't mean that they will automatically learn it from me. Delivery is key. Plus, you get to add all the fun things like NCLB, underfunding, and overcrowding to the mix. Teaching is not easy.
A LOT of college professors are horrible. Sure they may know the material but they can't TEACH it for sh1t!
No skill? Absurd. Look at all the parents having difficulty raising a single child. Now imagine trying to control 30+ students while having to deal with all the problems resulting from home.
No skill? Absurd. Look at all the parents having difficulty raising a single child. Now imagine trying to control 30+ students while having to deal with all the problems resulting from home.
because they work numerous overtime hours (grading papers, coaching sports, sponsoring clubs, ...) with no extra pay.
ever heard of the No Child Left Behind Act? it basically requires teachers to be "highly qualified" for the subjects/grades they are teaching. here in tennessee, teachers who do not meet the standards will have to go back and take additional college courses in their respective subjects, or they will be fired, starting in 2005. this has been/will be happening throughout the country soon enough.
what teachers have YOU been talking to? my husband is a teacher (high school math, included in your elite group) and i have many friends who are teachers as well. they will all tell you that the standardized tests are NOT a great indicator of what the students have learned. many students are just plain poor testers. some get restless after taking a standardized test for 3 hours straight and cannot concentrate when it gets nearer to the end. some of the material covered on the tests is not taught by the teachers because they don't always know exactly what concepts will be tested. teachers are "scared" as you say of these tests because their teaching ability is judged by these scores, which is ridiculous in the first place.
it takes great skill to deal with the discipline problems that infiltrate their classrooms every day. yes, their job would be very easy if the kids would actually behave. but that is far from the case. you have to know how to handle these situations like it's second nature...that's not something you learn in a college classroom. you've also got to gauge the students' abilities and adjust to that...you have to strike a happy medium between the mega-smart and the ultra-slow. also, not all teachers teach the same thing over and over again. that is such a ridiculous notion. they are always changing up their lesson plans from year to year, adding new topics and activities and in turn taking some things out.
overall, this is definitely untrue. what college have you been attending?
another ridiculous comment. my husband is a very intelligent man, and he could have picked any career and performed it very well. in fact, he was pre-med but changed to teaching just because he wanted to be a good influence in kids' lives. the money doesn't matter to him.
overall, i think your comments are incredibly insulting to the really great teachers out there who are good at what they do and are in it for the right reasons.
Are a lot of teachers dumb? Yeah. Are a lot of engineers dumb? Yup. Are a lot of jobX people dumb? Yup.
I guess you could say that teachers are, on average, less intelligent than professors, doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc.
I guess you could say that teachers are, on average, less intelligent than professors, doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc.
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
- 38,416
- 4
- 0
I don't think teachers are dumb but maybe ignorant. Think about it if you are in their situation.... you teach the same damn thing, over and over again each year. You'd get mental atrophy as well.
Lets say you teach kindergardeners for 10 years... you are basically getting no intellectual stimulation of your own.. thus intellectual atrophy.
So give the teachers a break, they are sacrificing their minds for the sake of others.
Lets say you teach kindergardeners for 10 years... you are basically getting no intellectual stimulation of your own.. thus intellectual atrophy.
So give the teachers a break, they are sacrificing their minds for the sake of others.
GeekDrew
Diamond Member
- Jun 7, 2000
- 9,099
- 19
- 81
MOST of the elementary teachers I know can't teach math to save their life. I was fortunate enough to be blessed with a couple of the better ones. I really wish that I had decent teachers the years that I didn't.
As for the bit going back and forth about skipping steps in math: I know that all teachers have to have expectations of their students, or else nothing would ever be accomplished. I spent grades 9 and 10 @ FU High School, and grades 11 and 12 @ FCC High School. When I arrived at FCC, I found that I was FAR beyond the abilities of my classmates in english, science and math. HOWEVER, the teacher I had in grade 11 @ FCC was an absolutely horrendous teacher, and I learned next to nothing, while getting an A+ in all grading periods. When I got to 12th grade, the teacher had to cover the remainder of the material that she was instructed that students have to know before graduation. Great. I had a C+ average in that class. The teacher was by far the best math teacher that I have ever been in class with (as a student, observer, substitute, etc). She had to go through every step of every problem because all of the students that had the same teacher that I did the year before had no idea how to do most things. My 12th grade teacher gave me help whenever I needed it, and she would help other students as much as possible. However, few of us acheived passing grades in that class - lucky for the failures, it was a mandatory elective (contradictory, no?) - you had to take the class, but did not have to pass it for graduation.
<soapbox> I've pretty much stopped caring about social studies/history because NO students in my entire graduating class (nor all of the teachers, except 1) gave a crap about it, and we only memorized texts for tests. I personally feel there's absolutely no reason to learn the majority of the things that students are fed in social studies. I view it as reference material; if I need to know it, I'll look it up. </soapbox>
As for the amount of teaching time - I think it's a good balance. Given the two months off that a teacher gets each year, that about balances out the unpaid overtime and work that they do at home almost every night. My mother is a teacher at FCC. Her hours are 7:30 - 3:00. She normally doesn't leave the building until 5:00, and then it would not surprise me if she comes home and works on school-related things for another hour or two every night. It's not in the least bit uncommon for her to ask me to grade papers or enter grades into a computer.
I work as a computer technician (more like systems admin, but that's another soapbox for another day) for the district that FCC is part of. I'm thus not a teacher, but I also put in unpaid overtime. Sometimes I'm assisting a teacher that simply asks for help doing whatever; most of the time, I'll help them, unless I have something else to do. My hours are normally 7:30-4:00 or 8:00 - 4:30 -- whichever schedule I need to use, works. I routinely arrive at 6:30 - 6:45, and work until 4:30 - 5:00. Even computer systems in schools aren't as static as they are in industry, they change a lot more. My district is blessed with a rather large budget for IT and related services. It seems that once a week I'm adding another software package to our servers so that it can be used on the network. We are continually adding computers, phones, network devices, new technologies, etc., to the network. We also have to have a near 100% uptime (for network infrastructure) because we use an IP-telephony system that uses the data network for communication. I can only think of a couple of times when the infrastructure went down and everything came to a halt... but keep in mind, we have to do all of this WHILE we have different contractors working in two wings of the building, that are pulling wire for data, electricity, etc., and are also testing everything for life safety (simulating power outages, etc). One of the times, someone was working on an APC system, and rebooted it without realizing that it powered one of the switches that the phone system is attached to. Presto! No more phone calls for 30 minutes. The other time was during a planned outage; we had to physically move the location of our main data closet per building plan, and it had to be done that specific night. I spent 48 hours in the school, without rest, moving equipment, reconfiguring some things, trying to get systems to come back up after being forced to shut down improperly.
Well... I've wandered far off topic. I'll just end it here. My apologies.
<edit - now I remember something I wanted to mention>
I believe that the teachers who are in tutoring (some, not all) are over-taught in what they are teaching students in, and have absolutely no social life whatsoever. If the phone on my desk rings at work and it's coming from a tutor, I ask a coworker to answer it. I can't stand those people. Tutors, and elective-only teachers, such as accounting, business practice, etc.
Keep in mind, though, that this post has been brought to you by someone that is more than proficient in use of computers - and he works on a staff of teachers that has next to no skill with computers.
</edit>
As for the bit going back and forth about skipping steps in math: I know that all teachers have to have expectations of their students, or else nothing would ever be accomplished. I spent grades 9 and 10 @ FU High School, and grades 11 and 12 @ FCC High School. When I arrived at FCC, I found that I was FAR beyond the abilities of my classmates in english, science and math. HOWEVER, the teacher I had in grade 11 @ FCC was an absolutely horrendous teacher, and I learned next to nothing, while getting an A+ in all grading periods. When I got to 12th grade, the teacher had to cover the remainder of the material that she was instructed that students have to know before graduation. Great. I had a C+ average in that class. The teacher was by far the best math teacher that I have ever been in class with (as a student, observer, substitute, etc). She had to go through every step of every problem because all of the students that had the same teacher that I did the year before had no idea how to do most things. My 12th grade teacher gave me help whenever I needed it, and she would help other students as much as possible. However, few of us acheived passing grades in that class - lucky for the failures, it was a mandatory elective (contradictory, no?) - you had to take the class, but did not have to pass it for graduation.
<soapbox> I've pretty much stopped caring about social studies/history because NO students in my entire graduating class (nor all of the teachers, except 1) gave a crap about it, and we only memorized texts for tests. I personally feel there's absolutely no reason to learn the majority of the things that students are fed in social studies. I view it as reference material; if I need to know it, I'll look it up. </soapbox>
As for the amount of teaching time - I think it's a good balance. Given the two months off that a teacher gets each year, that about balances out the unpaid overtime and work that they do at home almost every night. My mother is a teacher at FCC. Her hours are 7:30 - 3:00. She normally doesn't leave the building until 5:00, and then it would not surprise me if she comes home and works on school-related things for another hour or two every night. It's not in the least bit uncommon for her to ask me to grade papers or enter grades into a computer.
I work as a computer technician (more like systems admin, but that's another soapbox for another day) for the district that FCC is part of. I'm thus not a teacher, but I also put in unpaid overtime. Sometimes I'm assisting a teacher that simply asks for help doing whatever; most of the time, I'll help them, unless I have something else to do. My hours are normally 7:30-4:00 or 8:00 - 4:30 -- whichever schedule I need to use, works. I routinely arrive at 6:30 - 6:45, and work until 4:30 - 5:00. Even computer systems in schools aren't as static as they are in industry, they change a lot more. My district is blessed with a rather large budget for IT and related services. It seems that once a week I'm adding another software package to our servers so that it can be used on the network. We are continually adding computers, phones, network devices, new technologies, etc., to the network. We also have to have a near 100% uptime (for network infrastructure) because we use an IP-telephony system that uses the data network for communication. I can only think of a couple of times when the infrastructure went down and everything came to a halt... but keep in mind, we have to do all of this WHILE we have different contractors working in two wings of the building, that are pulling wire for data, electricity, etc., and are also testing everything for life safety (simulating power outages, etc). One of the times, someone was working on an APC system, and rebooted it without realizing that it powered one of the switches that the phone system is attached to. Presto! No more phone calls for 30 minutes. The other time was during a planned outage; we had to physically move the location of our main data closet per building plan, and it had to be done that specific night. I spent 48 hours in the school, without rest, moving equipment, reconfiguring some things, trying to get systems to come back up after being forced to shut down improperly.
Well... I've wandered far off topic. I'll just end it here. My apologies.
<edit - now I remember something I wanted to mention>
I believe that the teachers who are in tutoring (some, not all) are over-taught in what they are teaching students in, and have absolutely no social life whatsoever. If the phone on my desk rings at work and it's coming from a tutor, I ask a coworker to answer it. I can't stand those people. Tutors, and elective-only teachers, such as accounting, business practice, etc.
Keep in mind, though, that this post has been brought to you by someone that is more than proficient in use of computers - and he works on a staff of teachers that has next to no skill with computers.
</edit>
Turkish
Lifer
- May 26, 2003
- 15,547
- 1
- 81
I wouldn't call them dumb, but since there is a shortage of teachers, anyone that can complete all the certification can start teaching although they do not enjoy it. This creates a lack of interest in students, as well as creating a learning environment where students do not want that certain teacher to teach.
I personally think you need to love teaching in order to do it good. Some teachers can give positive influence while the rest gives negative...
And no, with all the extra work they need to do, I don't think their job is that easy.
<< -- junior in college.
I personally think you need to love teaching in order to do it good. Some teachers can give positive influence while the rest gives negative...
And no, with all the extra work they need to do, I don't think their job is that easy.
<< -- junior in college.
I say raise the teachers salaries to that of doctors, engineers, whatever. Make the job more valuable and profitable and watch competition for the jobs skyrocket along with teachers that posses PHds and Masters.
Maybe if base pay dind't start at $25k a year youd see better qualified individuals working for education
Maybe if base pay dind't start at $25k a year youd see better qualified individuals working for education
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Hmmm... just thinking about it...
These days, the typical high school teacher has about 120 students a day, and teaches/supervises them for roughly 40 minutes each.
That's 2/3 of an hour each, so a total of 80 student*hours a day. Consider the babysitter making $2 an hour per kid... At a babysitter's wages, teaching 180 days a year, a teacher would make $28,800 a year.
OR, take an elementary teacher... lets suppose they spend 5 1/2 hours a day directly supervising 20 students. At $2 per hour per student, that's $39,600 a year!
No one seems to complain about the level of competence needed for daycare for children, and many people pay well over $2 an hour just to keep their kid safe, let alone trying to teach their kid something.
*THAT'S* why you hear teachers complaining about pay. Many teachers make less than that starting off (not in my state though). Oh, and lets not forget the huge numbers of families who expect schools to teach their children everything. Recent example from my school: parent complaining that our detentions weren't effective because they didn't do anything to deter her son from getting detentions. We had to explain that only about 5% of the students ever receive detention. But, "punishment" was completely up to the school - the parent didn't want to get any more involved than to tell us we weren't doing a good enough job.
She wouldn't consider perhaps grounding him from his computer or playstation or television at home because then he became "unmanageable."
These days, the typical high school teacher has about 120 students a day, and teaches/supervises them for roughly 40 minutes each.
That's 2/3 of an hour each, so a total of 80 student*hours a day. Consider the babysitter making $2 an hour per kid... At a babysitter's wages, teaching 180 days a year, a teacher would make $28,800 a year.
OR, take an elementary teacher... lets suppose they spend 5 1/2 hours a day directly supervising 20 students. At $2 per hour per student, that's $39,600 a year!
No one seems to complain about the level of competence needed for daycare for children, and many people pay well over $2 an hour just to keep their kid safe, let alone trying to teach their kid something.
*THAT'S* why you hear teachers complaining about pay. Many teachers make less than that starting off (not in my state though). Oh, and lets not forget the huge numbers of families who expect schools to teach their children everything. Recent example from my school: parent complaining that our detentions weren't effective because they didn't do anything to deter her son from getting detentions. We had to explain that only about 5% of the students ever receive detention. But, "punishment" was completely up to the school - the parent didn't want to get any more involved than to tell us we weren't doing a good enough job.
no offense but you need to learn how to read. jessicak didn't write this, she posted it for a friend that wrote it. It's not surprising that people bail out from premed and do other stuff. I know a ton of people that bail out of engineering and become business majors.
uh, i know how to read. i was responding to the writer of the post...i never mentioned jessicak specifically. it doesn't really matter anyway...the issue was still raised so i was responding to it, just like everyone else in this thread.
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