Politics/Homosexuals/Religion...

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Most of America doesn't want the gay agenda perpertuated. Just look at the votes.

This isn't something people want.

My state is proposing bills to prevent most of the gay agenda and I'm quite proud of my representatives.

The gay agenda? Do you mean that agenda where gay people want to be treated with basic respect and allowed the same rights and dignity that we allow all human beings in our society? Because that's what this "gay agenda" you so fear is. I understand you don't like America, because it's obvious you hate the entire basis for our society, that of true equality for all. But why gays? Is it because it's socially unnacceptable to hate blacks, or jews, or the Chinese anymore? Bigotry will unfortunately always be around, because people like you will do their best to raise hate-filled, bigoted children. But I ask that you do what you can to lessen the spread of your bigotry .... someone please recommend this person a doctor where he can go get a vasectomy.

 

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
BlancoNino

The prohibithions against killing, stealing, and such, predate Christianity, and even Judism and have evolved in other cultures ignorant of those religions because it was commonsense to maintain good order in social groups. That these prohibitions are included in our body of law is merely coincidental to their existance in the Bible too.

As for the OP, the religious wackjobs will always convince themselves that they alone know the will of god and can justify any actions because of this knowlege. They killed 100s of thousands of "witches" in Europe because governments were not strong enough to rein them in.

Blame GWB and the rest of the Repubs for opening the floodgates again because they not only allow religious fools to make or influence policy, they encourage it. It will continue until we have a government with balls enough to tell them to STFU and keep their religion in their homes and churches, where it belongs.

So, either get used to it, or work to put people in office who will make policy for the common good.

Thank you for saying that part I bolded. I've been saying that for years and it seems so few people get it. It's good to see I'm not the only person that realizes that morality wasn't created by christianity.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: spidey07
Most of America doesn't want the gay agenda perpertuated. Just look at the votes.

This isn't something people want.

My state is proposing bills to prevent most of the gay agenda and I'm quite proud of my representatives.

Isn't that pretty much The Tyranny of the Majority?

If the majority wanted to go back to a black/white school system, would that be ok as well?

Notice how he has cut and run.

 

[DealMonkey]

People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible. 'Nuff said.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: spidey07
Most of America doesn't want the gay agenda perpertuated. Just look at the votes.

This isn't something people want.

My state is proposing bills to prevent most of the gay agenda and I'm quite proud of my representatives.

Isn't that pretty much The Tyranny of the Majority?
If the majority wanted to go back to a black/white school system, would that be ok as well?

They'd be doing cartwheels over going back to the days of slavery if they could get away with it.

 

[Stunt]

The problem is not gays or religious groups...
The problem is our government started getting into the business of 'marriage', at the time there were no gays who wanted to wed. These days the state is in the wrong calling 'relationships'; 'marriage'. We need to eliminate the term marriage from all government offices; allow unions or long-term relationships for all people with spousal rights. Everyone is caught up on the term marriage...so get rid of it!

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Termagant
Yeah, could someone please clarify the Gay Agenda for everyone who hasn't been fully briefed on the issue?

- First, to allow people to have sex with the same sex; and next, to have sex with anything; children, animals, cars.

- First, to get society to accept sodomy; then to get society to allow murder, rape, eating babies (they hate babies since they can't procreate with gay sex).

- To get 'special treatment'. Eventually, they will be the only ones you can elect, they'll get cash for being gay, and only they can wear colorful clothing.

- To convert all people to being gay. This will end the human race.

- To let the communist terrorist drug dealers rule the world.

Any questions?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Stunt
The problem is not gays or religious groups...
The problem is our government started getting into the business of 'marriage', at the time there were no gays who wanted to wed. These days the state is in the wrong calling 'relationships'; 'marriage'. We need to eliminate the term marriage from all government offices; allow unions or long-term relationships for all people with spousal rights. Everyone is caught up on the term marriage...so get rid of it!

Winnar.

I think it was DevilsAdvocate who posted what I found to be the most logical answer so far. It basically detailed how the government should only recognize unions between two people (regardless of all other considerations) and leave marriage up to the various churches.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible. 'Nuff said.

:thumbsup:

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: thraashman
The gay agenda? Do you mean that agenda where gay people want to be treated with basic respect and allowed the same rights and dignity that we allow all human beings in our society? Because that's what this "gay agenda" you so fear is. I understand you don't like America, because it's obvious you hate the entire basis for our society, that of true equality for all. But why gays? Is it because it's socially unnacceptable to hate blacks, or jews, or the Chinese anymore? Bigotry will unfortunately always be around, because people like you will do their best to raise hate-filled, bigoted children. But I ask that you do what you can to lessen the spread of your bigotry .... someone please recommend this person a doctor where he can go get a vasectomy.

no. The gay agenda is pushing for special rights which is totally against our society. That's what i mean with the gay agenda.

As it stands today everybody has equal rights. I just can't stand "special" rights and protection because that is not what the people want nor is it right or fair.

This Political Correctness crap has gone way too far and another reason why you're seeing voters come out in droves to stop it.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible. 'Nuff said.

And actually that's a matter of tradition, not a requirement. Well, at least it was. During religious upswings people have managed to require religious attestment during the office for all offices except the president, who is still under his original constitutional oath requirement. But originally under the founders (you know, those guys all the fundies claim were supremely religious) there was NO required use of the bible, or of swearing to God for ANY oath of office or military service.

I'm actually somewhat amazed that there's never been an Article VI, clause 3 lawsuit over the oaths. Hmmmm, maybe when I'm not so busy.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: thraashman
The gay agenda? Do you mean that agenda where gay people want to be treated with basic respect and allowed the same rights and dignity that we allow all human beings in our society? Because that's what this "gay agenda" you so fear is. I understand you don't like America, because it's obvious you hate the entire basis for our society, that of true equality for all. But why gays? Is it because it's socially unnacceptable to hate blacks, or jews, or the Chinese anymore? Bigotry will unfortunately always be around, because people like you will do their best to raise hate-filled, bigoted children. But I ask that you do what you can to lessen the spread of your bigotry .... someone please recommend this person a doctor where he can go get a vasectomy.

no. The gay agenda is pushing for special rights which is totally against our society. That's what i mean with the gay agenda.

As it stands today everybody has equal rights. I just can't stand "special" rights and protection because that is not what the people want nor is it right or fair.

This Political Correctness crap has gone way too far and another reason why you're seeing voters come out in droves to stop it.

What special rights? The right not to be discriminated against, the right to get married? These are "special" rights?

They don't have special rights and are in fact still discriminated against, don't ask don't tell is one example.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt
The problem is not gays or religious groups...

The problem is our government started getting into the business of 'marriage', at the time there were no gays who wanted to wed.

These days the state is in the wrong calling 'relationships'; 'marriage'.

We need to eliminate the term marriage from all government offices; allow unions or long-term relationships for all people with spousal rights.

Everyone is caught up on the term marriage...so get rid of it!

I for once in a great Blue Moon agree with you except for one thing, your term "our" Government.

Are you implying the U.S. is "your" Government?

I thought you live in Canada???

 

[BlancoNino]

I see a lot of people talking about the tyranny of the majority, discrimination, legislating morality, etc. Which, don't get me wrong, is great. I have no problem with gay marriage.

BUT! I am seeing this exact same argument coming from some of the people who are all for smoking bans. I hate to see people pick and choose which forms of discrimination are okay.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
I see a lot of people talking about the tyranny of the majority, discrimination, legislating morality, etc. Which, don't get me wrong, is great. I have no problem with gay marriage.

BUT! I am seeing this exact same argument coming from some of the people who are all for smoking bans. I hate to see people pick and choose which forms of discrimination are okay.

There is no such thing as toxic amounts of second-hand gay. Not even Richard Simmons on Who's Line is it Anyway.

 

[piasabird]

Morality does not mean religion. Having some minimum standards of conduct is a basic construct of all societies. When standards fall too low then that just means that Society is just crumbling.

Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die!

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: thraashman
The gay agenda? Do you mean that agenda where gay people want to be treated with basic respect and allowed the same rights and dignity that we allow all human beings in our society? Because that's what this "gay agenda" you so fear is. I understand you don't like America, because it's obvious you hate the entire basis for our society, that of true equality for all. But why gays? Is it because it's socially unnacceptable to hate blacks, or jews, or the Chinese anymore? Bigotry will unfortunately always be around, because people like you will do their best to raise hate-filled, bigoted children. But I ask that you do what you can to lessen the spread of your bigotry .... someone please recommend this person a doctor where he can go get a vasectomy.

no. The gay agenda is pushing for special rights which is totally against our society. That's what i mean with the gay agenda.

As it stands today everybody has equal rights. I just can't stand "special" rights and protection because that is not what the people want nor is it right or fair.

This Political Correctness crap has gone way too far and another reason why you're seeing voters come out in droves to stop it.

This comes up a lot among the bigots who oppose gay marriage, so I'll comment on it.

Analogy: gay marriage and inter-racial marriage. Inter-racial marriage was illegal in 13 states as late as 1967, until overturned by the 'Loving' ruling (love the name, huh).

The fallacy is when you place discrimination into the law, and then say wanting the discrimination removed is wanting special treatment.

Consider: "A marriage is between a man and a woman of the same race".

Mixed couple says, "hey, wait a second! That's discrimination!"

Bigot says, "No, it's not. You have the *same rights* to marry anyone of the opposite gender and same race that anyone else has. No discrimination.

You want to get to marry someone outside the law of a different race - you want special treatment!"

Mixed couples says, "But not everyone is in love with someone of a different race - the definition is discriminatory."

Bigot says, "We have to defend the definition of marriage."

People are gay not by choosing, in the vast majority of cases. The bigots believe that they just choose to be gay, like people choose to steal or rape, so it's a 'moral issue'.

The argument doesn't begin to hold up when they're challenged, such as on the inconsistency of their views with the bible and what they do, but that's the thing, most of the bigots are not challenged - they just comfortable flock together in circles who all agree in the hatred of gays (with slogans like how they love the sinner, hate the sin).

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: thraashman
The gay agenda? Do you mean that agenda where gay people want to be treated with basic respect and allowed the same rights and dignity that we allow all human beings in our society? Because that's what this "gay agenda" you so fear is. I understand you don't like America, because it's obvious you hate the entire basis for our society, that of true equality for all. But why gays? Is it because it's socially unnacceptable to hate blacks, or jews, or the Chinese anymore? Bigotry will unfortunately always be around, because people like you will do their best to raise hate-filled, bigoted children. But I ask that you do what you can to lessen the spread of your bigotry .... someone please recommend this person a doctor where he can go get a vasectomy.

no. The gay agenda is pushing for special rights which is totally against our society. That's what i mean with the gay agenda.

As it stands today everybody has equal rights. I just can't stand "special" rights and protection because that is not what the people want nor is it right or fair.

This Political Correctness crap has gone way too far and another reason why you're seeing voters come out in droves to stop it.

This comes up a lot among the bigots who oppose gay marriage, so I'll comment on it.

Analogy: gay marriage and inter-racial marriage. Inter-racial marriage was illegal in 13 states as late as 1967, until overturned by the 'Loving' ruling (love the name, huh).

The fallacy is when you place discrimination into the law, and then say wanting the discrimination removed is wanting special treatment.

Consider: "A marriage is between a man and a woman of the same race".

Mixed couple says, "hey, wait a second! That's discrimination!"

Bigot says, "No, it's not. You have the *same rights* to marry anyone of the opposite gender and same race that anyone else has. No discrimination.

You want to get to marry someone outside the law of a different race - you want special treatment!"

Mixed couples says, "But not everyone is in love with someone of a different race - the definition is discriminatory."

Bigot says, "We have to defend the definition of marriage."

People are gay not by choosing, in the vast majority of cases. The bigots believe that they just choose to be gay, like people choose to steal or rape, so it's a 'moral issue'.

The argument doesn't begin to hold up when they're challenged, such as on the inconsistency of their views with the bible and what they do, but that's the thing, most of the bigots are not challenged - they just comfortable flock together in circles who all agree in the hatred of gays (with slogans like how they love the sinner, hate the sin).

But lines are allowed to be drawn along the genders - and this has stood consitutional muster. It is one of the reasons why selective services can opperate. So the governement can say, one man, one woman.

People, through the government, has reserved the right on what marriages it will reconize. Look at Utah, they were forced to outlaw polygamy, before being allowed into the union. And it is still criminal to have more then one marriage partner.

Now if people wish to change the laws concerning marriage, i just wish they would do it through the legislative process.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: shrumpage
But lines are allowed to be drawn along the genders - and this has stood consitutional muster. It is one of the reasons why selective services can opperate. So the governement can say, one man, one woman.

You completely missed the point of the morality of the issue by arguing the law.

I was discussing the morality of the argument by those who opposed inter-racial marriage, not the law.

And since you bring it up, the courts making a ruling that a law is unconstitutional *is* still the legislative process; the constitution is legislative, too.

Your argument that you just wish people would do anything through the legislative process as opposed to the constitution is basically opposing constitutional rights.

Why even have a constitution that has any rights protecting minorities from the majority, requiring a super-majority to change, with your view? The majority is all that's needed.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: shrumpage
But lines are allowed to be drawn along the genders - and this has stood consitutional muster. It is one of the reasons why selective services can opperate. So the governement can say, one man, one woman.

You completely missed the point of the morality of the issue by arguing the law.

I was discussing the morality of the argument by those who opposed inter-racial marriage, not the law.

And since you bring it up, the courts making a ruling that a law is unconstitutional *is* still the legislative process; the constitution is legislative, too.

Your argument that you just wish people would do anything through the legislative process as opposed to the constitution is basically opposing constitutional rights.

Why even have a constitution that has any rights protecting minorities from the majority, requiring a super-majority to change, with your view? The majority is all that's needed.

I was referring to the same process that we used for Civil rights, and also Woman's sufferage. We went through the legisilative process that lead to amending the consituation.

If people want to allow same sex marriage - then they should go through the legislative process, i.e. - get laws passed.

 

[Coldkilla]

Im waiting for the first person to side with the religious side, I'll be the guy that drives 70 miles to beat that person up. Idjit

 

[Craig234]

You continue to miss the point - the morality of the issue, not the law.

The morality is why the voters should vote to remove the discrimination in the law.

If the constitution does protect against this discrimimination, the court should rule that way. If it doesn't, they shouldn't. That's irrelevant to the morality of the discrimination.

 

[Moonbeam]

The gay agenda is to find a profoundly charismatic gay leader, found a new religion that spreads around the world and becomes the majority vote and then to ban Christians as evil, deny them the right to marry, and criminalize the missionary position. I just don't know why you idiots can't see just how vicious and evil these people really are.

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Craig234
You continue to miss the point - the morality of the issue, not the law.

The morality is why the voters should vote to remove the discrimination in the law.

If the constitution does protect against this discrimimination, the court should rule that way. If it doesn't, they shouldn't. That's irrelevant to the morality of the discrimination.

Do you think it is moral for the government ask if some is gay or not?

 

[shrumpage]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The gay agenda is to find a profoundly charismatic gay leader, found a new religion that spreads around the world and becomes the majority vote and then to ban Christians as evil, deny them the right to marry, and criminalize the missionary position. I just don't know why you idiots can't see just how vicious and evil these people really are.

Was the government right in banning polygamy?