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Police Stop Man For Carrying Gun Out In Open

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SarcasticDwarf

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2001
9,574
0
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Atheus
Well lets pretend he's just calmly walking next to you but keeping the knife within range of your neck. Nobody would put up with that.
I carry a large swiss army knife every day. Anyone I walk near is technically "in range". I've never had anyone complain. Hell, at my old office I kept a large Gerber multi-tool in my desk The large blade came in handy to open paper boxes (the ones with those plastic bailing straps that are a pain to remove) and the tools were useful on several occasions as well. Technically most of the people in the office were "within range" and no-one complained.

ZV
I think I covered this before - see the bit about barbers and hunting trips above - but I'll rephrase. Those knives aren't being used as weapons. Just tools. If you take it out and hold it near someone's face, even if you're completely calm and saying nothing, the knife is now a weapon. A gun worn in a city is always a weapon. So in both cases you have a weapon and you are conciously and deliberately showing it to someone to make your power/threat clear. I don't see the fundamental difference. Nobody is this world would put up with the knife thing - they would either shit themselves or become very angry. So why do many Americans think the gun thing is ok? Becasue of an unhealthy love of the gun as an icon and a source of pride rather than a nasty weapon to be brought out only if absolutely nescesary. Just my thoughs upon reading this thread.
Uh, no.

The gun is only a weapon when drawn. A knife is only a weapon when unsheathed.
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Atheus
Well lets pretend he's just calmly walking next to you but keeping the knife within range of your neck. Nobody would put up with that.
I carry a large swiss army knife every day. Anyone I walk near is technically "in range". I've never had anyone complain. Hell, at my old office I kept a large Gerber multi-tool in my desk The large blade came in handy to open paper boxes (the ones with those plastic bailing straps that are a pain to remove) and the tools were useful on several occasions as well. Technically most of the people in the office were "within range" and no-one complained.

ZV
I think I covered this before - see the bit about barbers and hunting trips above - but I'll rephrase. Those knives aren't being used as weapons. Just tools. If you take it out and hold it near someone's face, even if you're completely calm and saying nothing, the knife is now a weapon. A gun worn in a city is always a weapon. So in both cases you have a weapon and you are conciously and deliberately showing it to someone to make your power/threat clear. I don't see the fundamental difference. Nobody is this world would put up with the knife thing - they would either shit themselves or become very angry. So why do many Americans think the gun thing is ok? Becasue of an unhealthy love of the gun as an icon and a source of pride rather than a nasty weapon to be brought out only if absolutely nescesary. Just my thoughs upon reading this thread.
Uh, no.

The gun is only a weapon when drawn. A knife is only a weapon when unsheathed.
Disagree.

/bored
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Atheus
What's the diffrerence, from an unarmed person's point of view, between someone wearing a handgun ready to draw it, and someone calmly holding a knife six inches from your throat? I reckon I'd stand a better chance vs the knife guy actually. No way I'd want to live somewhere this is legal.
Err, the guy with the knife is threatening you and the one with the gun is not?
Well lets pretend he's just calmly walking next to you but keeping the knife within range of your neck. Nobody would put up with that.
I don't see what you are getting at. Knife guy is still threatening you. Gun guy is not.
Well that's sort of my point - to me the threat is implied in both cases. By barber holds a knife to my throat, and if I go shooting the guy next to me is carrying a gun, but the difference is I know and trust those people. We're not on a public street with random strangers, possibly angry, possibly drunk, possibly mentally unstable...

The situation would make me extremely uncomfotable.
Ahhh, but your right to be comfortable does not give you the power to make me uncomfortable by disarming me...especially when my safety and right to carry is guaranteed, and your 'comfort' is not.
I'm talking purely from a conceptual point of view though, not a legal point of view - the law is clear in both our countries. I'm talking about what should be the law in my opinion.

I don't see why some random should have the power to just kill me on the steet with no fight.
Because we also should have the power to kill to protect when THEY start the fight...especially if we (for any reason, or none) cannot win the fight on equal terms (ie elderly, handicapped, outnumbered, outgunned, etc). In order to achieve that end, we must risk what you fear. It's the sacrifice of a free society, to achieve individual safety.
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
7,313
2
0
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Atheus
What's the diffrerence, from an unarmed person's point of view, between someone wearing a handgun ready to draw it, and someone calmly holding a knife six inches from your throat? I reckon I'd stand a better chance vs the knife guy actually. No way I'd want to live somewhere this is legal.
Err, the guy with the knife is threatening you and the one with the gun is not?
Well lets pretend he's just calmly walking next to you but keeping the knife within range of your neck. Nobody would put up with that.
I don't see what you are getting at. Knife guy is still threatening you. Gun guy is not.
Well that's sort of my point - to me the threat is implied in both cases. By barber holds a knife to my throat, and if I go shooting the guy next to me is carrying a gun, but the difference is I know and trust those people. We're not on a public street with random strangers, possibly angry, possibly drunk, possibly mentally unstable...

The situation would make me extremely uncomfotable.
Ahhh, but your right to be comfortable does not give you the power to make me uncomfortable by disarming me...especially when my safety and right to carry is guaranteed, and your 'comfort' is not.
I'm talking purely from a conceptual point of view though, not a legal point of view - the law is clear in both our countries. I'm talking about what should be the law in my opinion.

I don't see why some random should have the power to just kill me on the steet with no fight.
Because we also should have the power to kill to protect when THEY start the fight...especially if we (for any reason, or none) cannot win the fight on equal terms (ie elderly, handicapped, outnumbered, outgunned, etc). In order to achieve that end, we must risk what you fear. It's the sacrifice of a free society, to achieve individual safety.
1) But then everyone has to be armed to make everyone equal, but some people are incapable of safely using a firearm, or don't want to, so either they are disadvantaged, or you accept the consequences of giving them guns anyway. Escalation... bla bla bla... this is the ages old arguement. Nothing new here.

2) Do not involk fear, I am not afraid of you, no matter how much you wish it. Besides emotion has no place in philosophical discussion.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,182
635
126
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Atheus
Well lets pretend he's just calmly walking next to you but keeping the knife within range of your neck. Nobody would put up with that.
I carry a large swiss army knife every day. Anyone I walk near is technically "in range". I've never had anyone complain. Hell, at my old office I kept a large Gerber multi-tool in my desk The large blade came in handy to open paper boxes (the ones with those plastic bailing straps that are a pain to remove) and the tools were useful on several occasions as well. Technically most of the people in the office were "within range" and no-one complained.

ZV
Maybe they were too afraid of you to complain? :p
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Atheus
What's the diffrerence, from an unarmed person's point of view, between someone wearing a handgun ready to draw it, and someone calmly holding a knife six inches from your throat? I reckon I'd stand a better chance vs the knife guy actually. No way I'd want to live somewhere this is legal.
Err, the guy with the knife is threatening you and the one with the gun is not?
Well lets pretend he's just calmly walking next to you but keeping the knife within range of your neck. Nobody would put up with that.
lololololololololololololol
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,182
635
126
Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
"Pretty much any time my pants are on, I'm armed," Krause said.
I've never really understood why people feel this way...:confused:
How else would you feel like a big man?
Personally? By being a good father to my son, a good husband to my wife for starters.
Being a defenseless and unable to protect your family makes you a sheep, not a man.
Go fuck yourself dumbass. :|

I'm not around my family 24/7 so there's no fucking way I could protect them all the time. Shit could happen that even you, Chuck Fucking Norris, couldn't prevent. I simply choose not to be armed all the time because I don't live my life in fear of something that I may never even experience.

If shit starts going down I'll do my best to protect myself and my family. Personally, that would most likely involve a hasty retreat. I'm certainly not going to risk my life to play cowboy hero.
 

nobodyknows

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2008
5,474
0
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Atheus
Well lets pretend he's just calmly walking next to you but keeping the knife within range of your neck. Nobody would put up with that.
I carry a large swiss army knife every day. Anyone I walk near is technically "in range". I've never had anyone complain. Hell, at my old office I kept a large Gerber multi-tool in my desk The large blade came in handy to open paper boxes (the ones with those plastic bailing straps that are a pain to remove) and the tools were useful on several occasions as well. Technically most of the people in the office were "within range" and no-one complained.

ZV
I think I covered this before - see the bit about barbers and hunting trips above - but I'll rephrase. Those knives aren't being used as weapons. Just tools. If you take it out and hold it near someone's face, even if you're completely calm and saying nothing, the knife is now a weapon. A gun worn in a city is always a weapon. So in both cases you have a weapon and you are conciously and deliberately showing it to someone to make your power/threat clear. I don't see the fundamental difference. Nobody is this world would put up with the knife thing - they would either shit themselves or become very angry. So why do many Americans think the gun thing is ok? Becasue of an unhealthy love of the gun as an icon and a source of pride rather than a nasty weapon to be brought out only if absolutely nescesary. Just my thoughs upon reading this thread.
Uh, no.

The gun is only a weapon when drawn. A knife is only a weapon when unsheathed.
Disagree.

/bored
Guns and knifes are tools. As such a gun and a knife are only weapons when being used in the manner defined as being a weapon.
 
May 16, 2000
13,526
0
0
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Atheus
What's the diffrerence, from an unarmed person's point of view, between someone wearing a handgun ready to draw it, and someone calmly holding a knife six inches from your throat? I reckon I'd stand a better chance vs the knife guy actually. No way I'd want to live somewhere this is legal.
Err, the guy with the knife is threatening you and the one with the gun is not?
Well lets pretend he's just calmly walking next to you but keeping the knife within range of your neck. Nobody would put up with that.
I don't see what you are getting at. Knife guy is still threatening you. Gun guy is not.
Well that's sort of my point - to me the threat is implied in both cases. By barber holds a knife to my throat, and if I go shooting the guy next to me is carrying a gun, but the difference is I know and trust those people. We're not on a public street with random strangers, possibly angry, possibly drunk, possibly mentally unstable...

The situation would make me extremely uncomfotable.
Ahhh, but your right to be comfortable does not give you the power to make me uncomfortable by disarming me...especially when my safety and right to carry is guaranteed, and your 'comfort' is not.
I'm talking purely from a conceptual point of view though, not a legal point of view - the law is clear in both our countries. I'm talking about what should be the law in my opinion.

I don't see why some random should have the power to just kill me on the steet with no fight.
Because we also should have the power to kill to protect when THEY start the fight...especially if we (for any reason, or none) cannot win the fight on equal terms (ie elderly, handicapped, outnumbered, outgunned, etc). In order to achieve that end, we must risk what you fear. It's the sacrifice of a free society, to achieve individual safety.
1) But then everyone has to be armed to make everyone equal, but some people are incapable of safely using a firearm, or don't want to, so either they are disadvantaged, or you accept the consequences of giving them guns anyway. Escalation... bla bla bla... this is the ages old arguement. Nothing new here.

2) Do not involk fear, I am not afraid of you, no matter how much you wish it. Besides emotion has no place in philosophical discussion.
1) Correct.

2) I didn't say you were afraid of me, I was using the term synonymously with your invocation of 'uncomfortable' as it related to the open carrying of weapons. In your context, 'uncomfortable' can only be logically construed as fear based.

I would counter, however, that emotion has an ESSENTIAL place in a philosophical discussion, as we are all emotional beings and are incapable of cognitive functions unfettered by them.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
6,951
1,800
136
Originally posted by: Turin39789
Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Uh, no.

The gun is only a weapon when drawn. A knife is only a weapon when unsheathed.
They are both weapons all the time.
weap·on
/'w?p?n/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [wep-uhn] Show IPA
?noun
1. any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon.
2. anything used against an opponent, adversary, or victim: the deadly weapon of satire.
3. Zoology. any part or organ serving for attack or defense, as claws, horns, teeth, or stings.
?verb (used with object)
4. to supply or equip with a weapon or weapons: to weapon aircraft with heat-seeking missiles.

Neither are weapons until they are weapons. Until then, they are tools. (Though the "toolistic" uses of a gun are probably limited and questionable, I don't think anyone rational would question a knife as a tool)
 

daishi5

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2005
1,196
0
71
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones
Originally posted by: Atheus
What's the diffrerence, from an unarmed person's point of view, between someone wearing a handgun ready to draw it, and someone calmly holding a knife six inches from your throat? I reckon I'd stand a better chance vs the knife guy actually. No way I'd want to live somewhere this is legal.
Err, the guy with the knife is threatening you and the one with the gun is not?
Well lets pretend he's just calmly walking next to you but keeping the knife within range of your neck. Nobody would put up with that.
I don't see what you are getting at. Knife guy is still threatening you. Gun guy is not.
Well that's sort of my point - to me the threat is implied in both cases. By barber holds a knife to my throat, and if I go shooting the guy next to me is carrying a gun, but the difference is I know and trust those people. We're not on a public street with random strangers, possibly angry, possibly drunk, possibly mentally unstable...

The situation would make me extremely uncomfotable.
Ahhh, but your right to be comfortable does not give you the power to make me uncomfortable by disarming me...especially when my safety and right to carry is guaranteed, and your 'comfort' is not.
I'm talking purely from a conceptual point of view though, not a legal point of view - the law is clear in both our countries. I'm talking about what should be the law in my opinion.

I don't see why some random should have the power to just kill me on the steet with no fight.

Most people around you have the power to kill you on the street with no fight. You are just more aware of the fact that a person with a gun could do it. A person in a car could swerve and hit you, that person is just as capable of killing you as you walk down the street, but it does not bother you. You are not bothered that someone has the power to kill you at almost any moment as you walk down the street, it is a certain tool that causes you concern. Why? Private citizens who carry firearms in public whether concealed or open are less likely to kill an innocent person than a falling coconut.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: racolvin
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Really? What should the police have done?
If open carry is legal and that's a known fact, then if the weapon is holstered and the person is acting peaceably you leave them the hell alone. You *MIGHT* ask them to step over for a routine felony check but that's all. You do NOT take them to the ground and cuff them, etc, etc.

If the person has the weapon in hand, acting erratic, menacing with the weapon, etc, then you take them down.
this.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Alright - finish this sentence. The police get a report that someone in public has a gun. They should _____.
____... arrive on the scene, assess the situation, cautiously approach the man with the gun and ask "hello there sir, how are you today?"

Man with gun in holster: "I'm fine, thanks for asking."

Cops: "Sir, someone called about the gun you're wearing. Is there any reason we should be worried about that?"

Man with gun in holster: "No sir, I'm just picking up some things around my yard. I have the gun on me for my own protection, nothing more."

Cops: "Ahhh, OK. That sounds fine then sir. Please go about your business, we're sorry to have bothered you. Have a nice day!"

Man with gun in holster: "Thank you gentleman. It's no bother. Please tell whoever called it in that there's nothing to worry about. Good day to you too."

Then, if the cops really want to make sure everything is OK, they can go to the house of whoever reported the gun and explain to them that there is nothing to worry about; but, they can also say to that person: "If you observe actual threatening behavior, please feel free to call us back."

---

See how that works? THAT is how the police officers should respect our rights and the Constitution of the United States. If they choose to tackle the man with the holstered gun, and cuff him first, then he should turn around sue the fucking pants off of their entire department. Period.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Atheus
I don't see why some random should have the power to just kill me on the street with no fight.
Actually, what you wrote right there is the very reason I choose to carry a gun.

Ironic, eh?
 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
0
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: Atheus
I don't see why some random should have the power to just kill me on the street with no fight.
Actually, what you wrote right there is the very reason I choose to carry a gun.

Ironic, eh?
I think its fair enough for people to carry them but I don't feel comfortable with them marching around with it..what if they drop the fucking thing or something...they aren't meant to be paraded around for no reason.
 

GuitarDaddy

Lifer
Nov 9, 2004
11,465
1
0
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Originally posted by: joshsquall
http://www.wisn.com/cnn-news/19235901/detail.html

Regardless of your views on gun control and private gun ownership, isn't it a little ridiculous that police take you down first and ask questions later, for doing something that's entirely legal? This is similar to pulling you over because you're black and might have drugs.
Someone saw a guy carrying a gun, freaked out and called the police. If I were a cop and showed up to investigate a guy with a gun, you're Goddamn right he's getting on the ground until I can get everything sorted out.
You liberal tendencies are clouding your judgement.

He is exercising a constitutional right that was affirmed by a court and was harassed.

I hope he sues the absolute shit out of everyone involved.
Really? What should the police have done?
The proper response would have been to shoot him in the head then check his pockects for his gun permit, if he has one let him go:)

 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,182
635
126
Originally posted by: between
what a poor, poor man. I can only imagine the mental illness - psychological inadequacy and deep paranoia - that must compel this individual to wander around with a gun at his hip.
:thumbsup::laugh: Cops should have put him out of his misery.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,123
126
Originally posted by: joshsquall
http://www.wisn.com/cnn-news/19235901/detail.html

Regardless of your views on gun control and private gun ownership, isn't it a little ridiculous that police take you down first and ask questions later, for doing something that's entirely legal? This is similar to pulling you over because you're black and might have drugs.
You are wrong on several different levels. SSDD. zzz

 

Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
7,542
103
106
Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
"Pretty much any time my pants are on, I'm armed," Krause said.
I've never really understood why people feel this way...:confused:
How else would you feel like a big man?
Personally? By being a good father to my son, a good husband to my wife for starters.
Being a defenseless and unable to protect your family makes you a sheep, not a man.
I just use a bag of meth and my bare hands.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: Atheus
I don't see why some random should have the power to just kill me on the street with no fight.
Actually, what you wrote right there is the very reason I choose to carry a gun.

Ironic, eh?
I think its fair enough for people to carry them but I don't feel comfortable with them marching around with it..what if they drop the fucking thing or something...they aren't meant to be paraded around for no reason.
"Drop the fucking thing or something"??! :confused:

That's what holsters are for...

Not everyone is as ignorant as Plaxico Burress, ya know...
Originally posted by: between
what a poor, poor man. I can only imagine the mental illness - psychological inadequacy and deep paranoia - that must compel this individual to wander around with a gun at his hip.
There are plenty of legitimate and perfectly sane reasons to carry a weapon.
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
0
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: LumbergTech
Originally posted by: palehorse
Originally posted by: Atheus
I don't see why some random should have the power to just kill me on the street with no fight.
Actually, what you wrote right there is the very reason I choose to carry a gun.

Ironic, eh?
I think its fair enough for people to carry them but I don't feel comfortable with them marching around with it..what if they drop the fucking thing or something...they aren't meant to be paraded around for no reason.
"Drop the fucking thing or something"??! :confused:

That's what holsters are for...

Not everyone is as ignorant as Plaxico Burress, ya know...
Originally posted by: between
what a poor, poor man. I can only imagine the mental illness - psychological inadequacy and deep paranoia - that must compel this individual to wander around with a gun at his hip.
There are plenty of legitimate and perfectly sane reasons to carry a weapon.
agreed, but why act all surprised and taken aback when someone reports him to the cops and they show up asking him questions. This guy is just another jackass who is doing this for attention and trying to prove some kind of fucked up point and claim his 15 minutes of fame.

Does he have a right to carry a weapon in plain sight?...sure he does, but if he really is a concerned citizen he would call the police and at least let them know what he is doing, that according to the law he is exercising his right so that they would not waste their time chit chatting with this knuckle head. Even then , they have to investigate the situation just to verify.

He's just some goober who likes the feeling of being a media whore.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: between
what a poor, poor man. I can only imagine the mental illness - psychological inadequacy and deep paranoia - that must compel this individual to wander around with a gun at his hip.
Truly is a sad thing that this nation was started by so many men that suffered from such deep psychological defects.
 

Zenmervolt

Elite member
Oct 22, 2000
24,510
11
81
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: Atheus
Well lets pretend he's just calmly walking next to you but keeping the knife within range of your neck. Nobody would put up with that.
I carry a large swiss army knife every day. Anyone I walk near is technically "in range". I've never had anyone complain. Hell, at my old office I kept a large Gerber multi-tool in my desk The large blade came in handy to open paper boxes (the ones with those plastic bailing straps that are a pain to remove) and the tools were useful on several occasions as well. Technically most of the people in the office were "within range" and no-one complained.

ZV
I think I covered this before - see the bit about barbers and hunting trips above - but I'll rephrase. Those knives aren't being used as weapons. Just tools. If you take it out and hold it near someone's face, even if you're completely calm and saying nothing, the knife is now a weapon. A gun worn in a city is always a weapon. So in both cases you have a weapon and you are conciously and deliberately showing it to someone to make your power/threat clear. I don't see the fundamental difference. Nobody is this world would put up with the knife thing - they would either shit themselves or become very angry. So why do many Americans think the gun thing is ok? Becasue of an unhealthy love of the gun as an icon and a source of pride rather than a nasty weapon to be brought out only if absolutely nescesary. Just my thoughs upon reading this thread.
No, wearing a holstered firearm is no different from carrying a knife on a belt clip. If the person has the firearm in his or her hand, then yes, that is brandishing. If the person keeps his or her hand on the grip of the holstered firearm, that is brandishing. But just having the firearm in the holster is not at all equivalent to waving a knife in someone's face.

My Sig in its holster is no more an active threat than my Gerber in its belt clip. Neither is being held in my hand and neither presents an immediate risk to anyone.

ZV
 

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