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Police shot knife wielding man in Philadelphia , rioting ensues

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soundforbjt said:
You do realize the looting in Philly was taking place 10 MILES from where the protest was being held. (Fun fact: I actually heard this on Fox News)
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Must have been Halloween shenanigans not at all affiliated with the social unrest in Philadelphia. Speaking of which, its Thursday night, that’s when me and my neighbors usually go shoplift hot pockets from the local supermarket. ttyl
 
Starbuck1975 said:
Must have been Halloween shenanigans not at all affiliated with the social unrest in Philadelphia. Speaking of which, its Thursday night, that’s when me and my neighbors usually go shoplift hot pockets from the local supermarket. ttyl
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We all need to keep in mind that the vast majority of all BLM protest have been peaceful. People like this guy only focuses on the rioting because their goal is to discredit the movement.
 
zzyzxroad said:
We all need to keep in mind that the vast majority of all BLM protest have been peaceful. People like this guy only focuses on the rioting because their goal is to discredit the movement.
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Just like the 9/11 hijackers. The vast majority of the flight was peaceful. The impact only lasted seconds. Therefore it was a mostly peaceful flight.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
You won’t have to wait long, a simple Google search had numerous hits. You also said riots and not BLM, these are all deaths attributed to the protests.

Last I checked, the death count was around 30ish, here are some that hit the national news:

David Dorn, killed protecting a jewelry store in St. Louis

Berry Perkins, killed by a FedEx truck trying to escape looters

Dorian Murrell, shot in Indianapolis for reasons unknown

Italia Kelly, shot in Iowa during protests for reasons unknown

Marquis Tousan, shot by police in Iowa

James Scurlock, shot during an altercation with rioters at a bar in Nebraska

Victor Cazares, shot in Chicago

Patrick Underwood, DHS security assassinated in Oakland

Jorge Gomez, raised his weapon at officers in Las Vegas during a protest
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David Dorn is legit.
Berry Perkins occurred at a generally peaceful protest, the type you claim to support. The protestors didn't start the violence.
Dorian Murrell, not associated with riots, looting, etc.
Italia Kelly occurred at a peaceful protest (on the side of the protestors), the type you claim to support.
Marquis Tousan, killed by the police, hardly supports your claim they are decreasing the violence.
James Scurlock killed by violence breaking out at a protest, not a riot. This wasn't in the bar, this was a bar owner acting as a vigilante, provoking violence from protestors.
Victor Cazares is legit.
Patrick Underwood was killed by a far right terrorist assassinating cops, not rioters.
Jorge Gomez was killed at a peaceful rally that didn't turn violent until police started firing tear gas into the crowd.

This hardly supports your claim that the police are preventing violence.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
You’re not going to achieve societal change through looting
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Er, no one is trying to "achieve societal change through looting." Looting is really just the crime of theft, done under cover of a protest when police are presumably distracted. The killers of David Dorn had prior arrests for robbery. They didn't do what they did for any political reason. We don't even know if they intentionally timed it for the protest as stores are robbed frequently in St. Louis.

If we're going to hold protesters responsible for that, then the only logical solution is to ban protesting entirely, because a criminal can always take advantage of a protest situation to commit a crime.
 
mect said:
David Dorn is legit.
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I'm not too sure about that one, actually. See my comments above. The people who killed Dorn had prior criminal records for robbery and assault. I don't think criminals taking advantage of a protest situation is attributable to protesters.
 
woolfe9998 said:
I'm not too sure about that one, actually. See my comments above. The people who killed Dorn had prior criminal records for robbery and assault. I don't think criminals taking advantage of a protest situation is attributable to protesters.
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Yes, that is true. But it looks like he did at least take advantage of the rioting going on, which is why I'd say it does have some bearing. For most of the others, there was either no rioting even present, or the police were the ones that instigated the violence at otherwise peaceful protests.
 
mect said:
Yes, that is true. But it looks like he did at least take advantage of the rioting going on, which is why I'd say it does have some bearing. For most of the others, there was either no rioting even present, or the police were the ones that instigated the violence at otherwise peaceful protests.
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Yes, and like I said to Starbuck, there is no solution to opportunistic criminals taking advantage of a protest situation to commit criminal acts - other than never allowing anyone to protest.

Criminals are going to crime. I'm more concerned over those who have committed acts of property destruction out of a political motive. Those people ought to know better.
 
UNCjigga said:
I know that the more we watch scenes like this play out, the harder it is to put one’s emotions aside and form a rational response, but here is my uninformed take.

I think it’s important to answer a number of questions about the incident before we jump to any conclusions:

1) What was the nature of the call which prompted officers to respond? What radio codes were used? Were the officers made aware of any mental health issues?

2) Did the deceased have any prior history of arrest for assault/battery/assault with a deadly weapon etc.? Was this communicated to the responding officers?

3) Did the responding officers have any prior history of use of deadly force while responding to similar incidents?

4) How long were officers on the scene prior to shots being fired? What steps did the officers take prior to shots being fired?

5) What were the officers actually trained to do in this situation? Was that training followed?

6) Does this precinct/department have a history of use of deadly force or violent tactics in response to similar incidents OR when responding to incidents in this neighborhood? If so, have any issues with these incidents been raised with community relations, police board, union or political leadership prior to this incident?

I think these are the questions we should be asking/answering first.
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I agree. Situations like this are rarely cut and dried.
 
woolfe9998 said:
Er, no one is trying to "achieve societal change through looting." Looting is really just the crime of theft, done under cover of a protest when police are presumably distracted. The killers of David Dorn had prior arrests for robbery. They didn't do what they did for any political reason. We don't even know if they intentionally timed it for the protest as stores are robbed frequently in St. Louis.

If we're going to hold protesters responsible for that, then the only logical solution is to ban protesting entirely, because a criminal can always take advantage of a protest situation to commit a crime.
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That’s fair, but looting and arson doesn’t happen with every protest. It happened with the Occupy movement but not the women’s march, for instance.
 
Starbuck1975 said:
That’s fair, but looting and arson doesn’t happen with every protest. It happened with the Occupy movement but not the women’s march, for instance.
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Yes, because women are less likely to loot and burn than men. And also, BTW, young people are more likely to be aggressive than the geasers who made up the tea party protests.

If you look at who commits the most violent crimes, it's men under the age of 30. Protests which attract more of that demographic are more likely to get out of hand. And if you look at the right wingers who who show up to the protests armed to the teeth and some committing violence, guess who they are? Men largely under the age of 30.
 
woolfe9998 said:
Yes, because women are less likely to loot and burn than men. And also, BTW, young people are more likely to be aggressive than the geasers who made up the tea party protests.

If you look at who commits the most violent crimes, it's men under the age of 30. Protests which attract more of that demographic are more likely to get out of hand. And if you look at the right wingers who who show up to the protests armed to the teeth and some committing violence, guess who they are? Men largely under the age of 30.
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we can't forget that most of the BLM protest have been riot and looting free.
 
zzyzxroad said:
we can't forget that most of the BLM protest have been riot and looting free.
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Haven't forgotten that, and it isn't lost on me that for conservatives "a few bad apples" seems a valid argument for police but not for protesters. However, that hypocrisy also goes both ways.

The reality is that groups tend to be associated with the most extreme actions of their members. It's a fallacy, but one committed by many if not most people in the real world.

Fallacy of composition - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

People who are protesting need to be mindful of why they are protesting, and what is productive, or counter-productive, toward that goal. Violence during protests is especially counter-productive right now during this election and in this polarized climate. They had a window to let out some rage back in June after the Floyd video but that window closed months ago.
 
woolfe9998 said:
Haven't forgotten that, and it isn't lost on me that for conservatives "a few bad apples" seems a valid argument for police but not for protesters. However, that hypocrisy also goes both ways.

The reality is that groups tend to be associated with the most extreme actions of their members. It's a fallacy, but one committed by many if not most people in the real world.

Fallacy of composition - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

People who are protesting need to be mindful of why they are protesting, and what is productive, or counter-productive, toward that goal. Violence during protests is especially counter-productive right now during this election and in this polarized climate. They had a window to let out some rage back in June after the Floyd video but that window closed months ago.
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People have been cooped up, scarred and had their life turned upside down by Covid. I think much of the violence is is a byproduct of that. I am sure the president's over the top divisiveness has also played a role.


It's for sure a shame there is violence and it absolutely works against the actual movement.
 
woolfe9998 said:
Er, no one is trying to "achieve societal change through looting." Looting is really just the crime of theft, done under cover of a protest when police are presumably distracted. The killers of David Dorn had prior arrests for robbery. They didn't do what they did for any political reason. We don't even know if they intentionally timed it for the protest as stores are robbed frequently in St. Louis.

If we're going to hold protesters responsible for that, then the only logical solution is to ban protesting entirely, because a criminal can always take advantage of a protest situation to commit a crime.
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Except for the Facts that you forgot to mention. The protests were not only not condemned, the police were told to stand down by the liberal politicians. Also there were many arrested that were let go free by the same leftist politicians. Third there were go fund me's that were set up and donated to by the left to get people out of jail on bond. This has created an environment where these violent riots are tolerated by the left. The only opposition is the business owners that get screwed by the left.
This is the left wing/antifa/blm. Period. A bunch of ignorant ass clowns that resort to violence when they don't get their way.
 
OILFIELDTRASH said:
Say you and I are having a peaceful conversation in person. This conversation lasts 2 hours. At the end of the conversation I punch you in the nose and run away. What occured? Was this a "mostly peaceful" conversation?
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You are trying to compare an event of thousands and thousands of people to a one on one interaction? It's just not sensible.
 
Anyone posted this yet? Walmart is removing all guns and ammo from its stores because of the riots. I saw with my own eyes earlier today at one of the local WM. The whole area was empty. Nothing on the shelves.

www.ky3.com

Walmart pulls guns, ammo off store shelves

The retail giant sells firearms in roughly half of its 4,700 stores in the United States.
www.ky3.com www.ky3.com
 
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OILFIELDTRASH said:
Except for the Facts that you forgot to mention. The protests were not only not condemned, the police were told to stand down by the liberal politicians. Also there were many arrested that were let go free by the same leftist politicians. Third there were go fund me's that were set up and donated to by the left to get people out of jail on bond. This has created an environment where these violent riots are tolerated by the left. The only opposition is the business owners that get screwed by the left.
This is the left wing/antifa/blm. Period. A bunch of ignorant ass clowns that resort to violence when they don't get their way.
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So protests are the same thing as violent riots. More idiocy.
 
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