Police roadblocks to remove unlicensed drivers challenged in court

[MadRat]

Could you imagine the reverse happening to American tourists in Mexico? The **** would hit the fan.

 

[dyna]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Police road blocks to screen drivers is complete BS.

Just like road blocks to screen people leaving from bars.

I guess they should sweep through neighborhoods and inspect all our homes to make sure we're not doing anything illegal either.

We should probably get rid of the police also, those guys are BS. They arrest you if you do something illegal. It probably wasn't the most tactful way to accomplish their goal but what would you suggest as a alternative way to do this?

 

[smackdr]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Socio

If you can't impound them then what are you do with all their vehicles they are caught driving that they can never operate legally, just leave them parked all over our cities forever?

Sell it and buy them a ticket home..... a plane ticket home.

There should be absolutely NO sympathy given to those who break the law... especially when they're here illegally in the first place. Send them home and don't ever let them come back. NEVER.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
I don't have a problem at all with roadblocks at all catching drunks. I would rather some drunk driver have his "rights violated" than have some innocent man, woman or child killed because someone is too god damned dumb to stay off the road after a few beers.

You wanna eliminate drunk driving checkpoints? Eliminate drunk driving.

pretty simple.

The checkpoints are BS, it's not only the drunks who are having their rights violated. I have no problem at all with cops watching for drunk driving, but pulling people over without probable cause or reasonable suspicion should be illegal...we need a new Supreme Court that actually cares about the Constitution first though.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Whining a lot isn't the key to bypassing the constitution. Impounding cars for that particular reason is an illegal seizure, as the 9th circuit court suggested. End of story.

Judging by some recent Supreme Court cases, I don't know that the Court would find this action illegal or unconstitutional. Just because the infamous Ninth Circuit says so means little.

 

[GoPackGo]

These are not the droids you are looking for

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: MadRat
Could you imagine the reverse happening to American tourists in Mexico? The **** would hit the fan.

There's a HUGE difference between tourists and illegal immigrants...Tourists go home...the illegal immigrants never do...(unless they're wanted for a crime...then they RUN back across the border.

I have no real issue with the roadblock traffic stops. Here, they use them to look for drunk drivers, (illegal) seatbelt violations, (illegal) and things like driver's licence, insurance, and registration violations. (also illegal) I feel that getting drunks or unlicenced--uninsured drivers off the road is worth the few minutes of inconvenience to me. Don't want to get busted at a check-point? Don't drive drunk.
You can throw up all the straw-men about blood testing for drugs and such you want, but since no one (AFAIK) has even proposed such a thing, although, if you get stopped and APPEAR to be under the influence, they CAN haul you to a hospital and have a blood test done...at YOUR expense of course...it's part of the "implied consent" law...refuse and lose your driving privileges for 1 year.

On the original topic...illegal immigrants...I live in Northern Kahleeforneeya in what is basically farm country. We are awash in illegals here...unlicenced, uninsured, and our insurance rates reflect this. They are here ILLEGALLY, they are driving cars ILLEGALLY, why should they get special protection/treatment? Do we just need to do away with driver's licence and insurance laws completely? After all, if the illegals can drive without them, why can't you and I?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Wheezer
I don't have a problem at all with roadblocks at all catching drunks. I would rather some drunk driver have his "rights violated" than have some innocent man, woman or child killed because someone is too god damned dumb to stay off the road after a few beers.

You wanna eliminate drunk driving checkpoints? Eliminate drunk driving.

pretty simple.

Well let's have blood tests for drugs at road blocks too. Eventually you'll catch a few people hopped up on goofballs, so it'll all be worth, right? I mean, you don't have anything to hide, so give us a little bit of your time and blood.

Blood test is more invasive than rolling down one's window and a cop peaking in for a moment.

Either way, a large number of innocent people are being illegally detained without probable cause or reasonable suspicion.

 

[babylon5]

Argue what you think is wrong all you want. But checkpoints are here to stay because apparently enough Americans want them to stay, just like Illegals are staying and not leaving America.

 

[Kwaipie]

An illegal, unlicensed, uninsured woman hit my wife, both women cried a lot, by the time I got there, the illegal's brother was there tearing her a new one. He ensured us that she would pay the damages, 18 months worth of $200 checks proved him correct. I personally have no issue with illegals. Keep them coming.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Whining a lot isn't the key to bypassing the constitution. Impounding cars for that particular reason is an illegal seizure, as the 9th circuit court suggested. End of story.

Judging by some recent Supreme Court cases, I don't know that the Court would find this action illegal or unconstitutional. Just because the infamous Ninth Circuit says so means little.

The Ninth Circuit has a habit of being overturned by the SCOTUS, particularly when it comes to 4th Amendment rights and illegal aliens.

SCOTUS case overturning the Ninth

This section suggests that the illegals may well be denied 4th Amendment rights

(b) The Fourth Amendment phrase "the people" seems to be a term of art used in select parts of the Constitution and contrasts with the words "person" and "accused" used in Articles of the Fifth and Sixth Amendments regulating criminal procedures. This suggests that "the people" (p.260)refers to a class of persons who are part of a national community or who have otherwise developed sufficient connection with this country to be considered part of that community

If they find that "suffcient connection" requires a valid visa or green card, these peeps are SOL, IMO.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Police road blocks to screen drivers is complete BS.

Just like road blocks to screen people leaving from bars.

I guess they should sweep through neighborhoods and inspect all our homes to make sure we're not doing anything illegal either.

Agreed. Roadblocks are blatantly unconstitutional.

One is required to have a drivers licenses (among other things) to lawfully operate a motor vehicle on roads. No argues that.

How is it unreasonable to stop motorists to check if they do in fact have a licenses? Is there another better way?

The 4th is only against "unreasonable" searches, not all searches.

If a driver, for whatver reason (no licenses, no insurance, drunk) is discovered operating a motor vehicle by the police, seizing the car makes perfect sense to me. They cannot allow you to continue operating it. They cannot allow the car to remain on the roadside (illegal and a traffic hazard etc).

I suppose if a properly licensed & insured passenger were present as an occupant, and the driver approved, the police should allow the passenger to take over and drive the vehicle away.

I've driven in Mexico and many other countries, but it's been awhile. Seems to me there was a rule that if a person had a valid license from their home country they were lawfully allowed to drive in foreign countries for up to a year. Do these people not even a Mexican DL? Or, do we no longer have (DL) reciprocity with Mexico?

Fern

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Wheezer
I don't have a problem at all with roadblocks at all catching drunks. I would rather some drunk driver have his "rights violated" than have some innocent man, woman or child killed because someone is too god damned dumb to stay off the road after a few beers.

You wanna eliminate drunk driving checkpoints? Eliminate drunk driving.

pretty simple.

Well let's have blood tests for drugs at road blocks too. Eventually you'll catch a few people hopped up on goofballs, so it'll all be worth, right? I mean, you don't have anything to hide, so give us a little bit of your time and blood.

sounds good to me, driving is a privlage not a right. so get over it.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Wheezer
I don't have a problem at all with roadblocks at all catching drunks. I would rather some drunk driver have his "rights violated" than have some innocent man, woman or child killed because someone is too god damned dumb to stay off the road after a few beers.

You wanna eliminate drunk driving checkpoints? Eliminate drunk driving.

pretty simple.

Well let's have blood tests for drugs at road blocks too. Eventually you'll catch a few people hopped up on goofballs, so it'll all be worth, right? I mean, you don't have anything to hide, so give us a little bit of your time and blood.

sounds good to me, driving is a privlage not a right. so get over it.

You're still treating innocent people like criminals.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Socio
I think it is getting to the point where we might as well issue official ?Above The Law? bumper stickers or license plate tags to illegal immigrants so law enforcement knows right off to just look the other way.

How about a bumber sticker that says:

"Wave me though, your laws don't apply to me because I'm an illegal"

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Socio
I think it is getting to the point where we might as well issue official ?Above The Law? bumper stickers or license plate tags to illegal immigrants so law enforcement knows right off to just look the other way.

How about a bumber sticker that says:

"Wave me though, your laws don't apply to me because I'm an illegal"

Why not just have their home embassy issue DPL plates.

 

[piasabird]

Well if you can show a pattern that the roadblocks are only set up in areas with high concentrations of Latinos, then maybe it is possible to show that this is profiling, and discrimination is occuring.

However, it is illegal to drive a car without insurance. In some states if your insurance runs out and you dont renew your Lender, or the Sec of State will send you a letter. How is that any different. If you never purchase insurance you are breaking the law. Then when some law-abiding citizen has an accident there is no insurance coverage and it causes people to suffer, and it drives up the cost of insurance of the people who are insured. I would not be surprised that the Insurance Industry is behind this. Think of all the profits and revenue someone is not getting if these people do not pay for insurance.

I may suggest this to the Illinois Secretary of State.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You're still treating innocent people like criminals.

Couldn't the same be said for airport screening and security procedures...or how about when attending a concert or sporting event for which there is a security checkpoint to confiscate items not permitted in the venue...aren't these same procedures treating innocent people like criminals?

There are instances where public safety takes a priority over individual rights...while vehicles may be private property, roads are very much public and government owned resources...as such, the government has a vested interest to ensure that those operating on said roads are doing so with the necessary and binding requirements as dictated by the law.

I do not fear roadblocks...what I do fear are illegal drivers without insurance or driver's liscences who pose a danger to other motorists...I fear knuckleheads that get into a car and drive home after having a few too many drinks...hell, in SoCal, I can't tell you the number of times I have looked in my rearview mirror at a stop light and noticed a driver taking a bong hit.

I have no problem with the police utilizing roadblocks to protect motorists such as myself from those who are too irresponsible to operate a motor vehicle.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
Whining a lot isn't the key to bypassing the constitution. Impounding cars for that particular reason is an illegal seizure, as the 9th circuit court suggested. End of story. I agree that unlicensed or uninsured motorists should be off the highway, I don't think taking their cars is the only way to do it.

Bullshit. How in the world can a constitutional amendment of illegal search and seizure be illegal if the ones its aimed it...are here illegally? Gimme a break.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
This country is systematically unwilling to enforce its own immigration laws and that is discraceful. It's also discraceful that most people want them enforced and yet their leaders do nothing, which demonstrates to us the disconnect between the citizens' wants and what they get.

I agree 100%. This toleration is pathetic. Not forced to provide identification? Given constitutional protection? Given goods and services paid for with my tax money. Having the "RIGHT" (what a joke) to picket for rights...

Im fed up. Fsck em all. You want a slice of the American dream, dont ***** steal it. The welcome we give them-ALL of them, from ANY country-is a slap in the face to our own citizens.

 

[BoomerD]

Here in the city I live in, (Modesto, Ca.) the group "The Brown Berets" is lobbying the city council to establish a "sanctuary" for illegals, in that the police won't be allowed to inquire into the status of anyone they arrest or detain, that the local police won't be permitted to assist the Feds in any kind of round-up or other action against illegal immigrants. So far, the council has refused to do this...but the pressure is on them from many latino groups to do so.

FCK THAT! If they're here ILLEGALLY, box them up and send them home. ALL OF THEM! For me, it doesn't matter if they are here illegally from Mexico, Ireland, China, Canada, or some other country--Illegal means Illegal--and they need to be deported.
I would support a guest-worker program for agriculture, with the provision that the workers go back to whatever their home country is at the end of the season. ALL other industries including construction, restaurants, etc. need to hire LEGAL immigrants only. We need major sanctions against ANY employer who hires illegals...even if they have forged papers that "look real"...there needs to be an easy-to-access verifiable system to check a person's legal status.

BUT, of course, NONE of this will ever happen...the ag industry depends on it's cheap illegal workforce, and they have too much lobbying money to spread around.

 

[marincounty]

That's why I'm in favor of drivers licenses for illegals. Then at least we have a name and a fingerprint if something happens, and the illegal can purchase insurance.
As it is now you are basically forcing them to drive illegally without insurance.
There is no great federal program to remove the illegals, so if they are staying, at least give them the means to obey some of our laws.
Of course Ahnold, in his great wisdom, vetoed a bill to do this and promised a solution that has naturally never appeared.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: marincounty
That's why I'm in favor of drivers licenses for illegals. Then at least we have a name and a fingerprint if something happens, and the illegal can purchase insurance.
As it is now you are basically forcing them to drive illegally without insurance.
There is no great federal program to remove the illegals, so if they are staying, at least give them the means to obey some of our laws.
Of course Ahnold, in his great wisdom, vetoed a bill to do this and promised a solution that has naturally never appeared.

Lets see you go to ANY country, with no visa, no passport, no nothing and apply for a DL.

Good luck with that. You are proposing LEGAL documents for ILLEGAL people. The whole "theyre here anyway might as well integrate em" is bullshit

 

[theeedude]

More of the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality from cops.

 

[Darthvoy]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: marincounty
That's why I'm in favor of drivers licenses for illegals. Then at least we have a name and a fingerprint if something happens, and the illegal can purchase insurance.
As it is now you are basically forcing them to drive illegally without insurance.
There is no great federal program to remove the illegals, so if they are staying, at least give them the means to obey some of our laws.
Of course Ahnold, in his great wisdom, vetoed a bill to do this and promised a solution that has naturally never appeared.

Lets see you go to ANY country, with no visa, no passport, no nothing and apply for a DL.

Good luck with that. You are proposing LEGAL documents for ILLEGAL people. The whole "theyre here anyway might as well integrate em" is bullshit

Whether you like it or not they are here to stay. You want to keep them in the shadows so that when one of them commits a crime they will be untraceable? As much you hate the idea, at one point, you have to accept reality and realize that what you want is never going to happen. Why not just close the border down and ask those that already here if they want to become Americans, or if they only want to be here to work and return to their native countries once they are done? And, provide them the means to do it legally that way they can get licenses and insurance.