Police mace the hell out of peaceful OWS protesters

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theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
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What about when they start impinging on other peoples rights and other students ability to attend classes?
This is where you present evidence that students complained about being unable to attend classes because of protesters in a field. If you have it. Which you don't.
I do not believe that shooting them would be OK. I think she should be removed if she ordered peaceful trespassers shot.
You're not very good at this game, are you?
MotionMan
And if she only ordered them removed and the police shot them, then she can stay?
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
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This is where you present evidence that students complained about being unable to attend classes because of protesters in a field. If you have it. Which you don't.

That is why you call it a hypothetical. Assume it is true: Can they be removed then?

And if she only ordered them removed and the police shot them, then she can stay?

If she reasonably believed they were going to shoot them, then she cannot stay.
If she did not know they were going to shoot them, and rightfully believed they would remove them in a legal manner, then she gets to stay.

MotionMan
 

yhelothar

Lifer
Dec 11, 2002
18,409
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HIPPES! DEM DAMN HIPPIES DESERVES ALL THEY GET!
It's disturbing how many people follow the blatantly skewed media. :(
Yeah, nothing to see here, this whole movement is just about some hippies who can't get jobs so they're sitting out in the streets whining about it... :rolleyes:
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,198
126
That is why you call it a hypothetical. Assume it is true: Can they be removed then?
Yes
If she reasonably believed they were going to shoot them, then she cannot stay.
If she did not know they were going to shoot them, and rightfully believed they would remove them in a legal manner, then she gets to stay.
MotionMan
In your opinion. In reality, she gets to spend more time with her family.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,303
144
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She is not going to be able to stay

I'm fairly sure the procedures to remove protesters from squating in passive resistance do not involve drowning said protesters in pepper spray.

Yes the protesters were not following orders. But the resulting dowsing with pepper spray was extreme and someone needs to be held responsible

Some of you won't like that, oh well.
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
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Yes

In your opinion. In reality, she gets to spend more time with her family.

Well, after all, you did ask for my opinion.

In reality, due to the over-reaction of the media and politicians, fueled by people like you, she gets to spend more time with her family.

I am sure you have no issues with her Golden Parachute payout, right?

MotionMan
 

Newbian

Lifer
Aug 24, 2008
24,779
882
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Indefinitely.


So lets say you have a place of business and some squatters decide to pitch tents on your property by the front door and you would let them stay forever as long as they say they are protesting something and not tell them to move or call the police?

Not sure what kind of fairy tale land you live in but you clearly need to learn that laws are there for the safety of the many and not to be ignored whenever people feel like it and think there will be no repercussions.

For all you know she could had been ordered by her superiors to report the criminals to the police.
 
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theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,198
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Well, after all, you did ask for my opinion.

In reality, due to the over-reaction of the media and politicians, fueled by people like you, she gets to spend more time with her family.

I am sure you have no issues with her Golden Parachute payout, right?

MotionMan

It's not that golden, plus she would get that money anyways, they set aside some amount every year for severance/retirement pay.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,198
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So lets say you have a place of business and some squatters decide to pitch tents on your property by the front door and you would let them stay forever as long as they say they are protesting something and not tell them to move or call the police?
My property, call the cops. But if it was property of people I was working for, I would think about whether creating a big confrontation and publicity problem for them could get me fired. Would think about that long and hard.
Not sure what kind of fairy tale land you live in but you clearly need to learn that laws are there for the safety of the many and not to be ignored whenever people feel like it and think there will be no repercussions.
You are the one creating hypothetical fairy tales.
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
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My property, call the cops. But if it was property of people I was working for, I would think about whether creating a big confrontation and publicity problem for them could get me fired. Would think about that long and hard.

What if they are on the public sidewalk, but by doing that, they are blocking access to your personaly-owned business.

MotionMan
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,198
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And you are OK with her getting all that money for nothing?

MotionMan

She'll get it anyways. It's set aside for lump sum when she retires. But anyways, discussion of her severance pay is of less interest to me than the need for her to go.
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
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What if they are on the public sidewalk, but by doing that, they are blocking access to your personaly-owned business.

MotionMan

Call the cops.

And if they shoot the people on the sidewalk, should you be found responsible, too? Never mind - not really my point.

OK, what if the OWS protestors block campus walkways and roads so that students and professors cannot get to class/work? What should be done?

MotionMan
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
Here is a letter I got from the chancellor about an hour ago:

November 20, 2011

Dear Alumni and Friends,

Friday was not a day that would make anyone on our campus proud; indeed the events of the day need to guide us forward as we try to make our campus a better place of inquiry, debate, and even dissent. This past week our campus was a site of week-long peaceful demonstrations during which students were able to express their concerns about many issues facing higher education, the University of California, our campus, our nation, and the world as a whole. Those events involved multiple rallies in the Quad and an occupation of Mrak Hall which ended peacefully a day later.

However, the events on Friday were a major deviation from that trend. In the aftermath of the troubling events we experienced, I will attempt to provide a summary of the incident with the information now available to me and the steps we will follow going forward.
After a week of peaceful exchange and debate, on Thursday a group of protestors including UC Davis students and other non-UC Davis affiliated individuals established an encampment of about 25 tents on the Quad. The group was reminded that while the university provides an environment for students to participate in rallies and express their concerns and frustrations through different forums, university policy does not allow such encampments on university grounds.

On Thursday, the group stayed overnight despite repeated reminders by university staff that their encampment violated university policies and they were requested to disperse. On Friday morning, the protestors were provided with a letter explaining university policies and reminding them of the opportunities the university provides for expression. Driven by our concern for the safety and health of the students involved in the protest, as well as other students on our campus, I made the decision not to allow encampments on the Quad during the weekend, when the general campus facilities are locked and the university staff is not widely available to provide support.

During the early afternoon hours and because of the request to take down the tents, many students decided to dismantle their tents, a decision for which we are very thankful. However, a group of students and non-campus affiliates decided to stay. The university police then came to dismantle the encampment. The events of this intervention have been videotaped and widely distributed. As indicated in various videos, the police used pepper spray against the students who were blocking the way. The use of pepper spray as shown on the video is chilling to us all and raises many questions about how best to handle situations like this.
To this effect, I am forming a task force comprised of faculty, students and staff to review the events and provide to me a thorough report within 30 days. The task force will be chosen this week and convene immediately to begin their work. As part of this, a process will be designed that allows members of the community to express their views on this matter. In addition, I will hold a series of meetings and forums with students, faculty and staff to listen to their concerns and hear their ideas for restoring civil discourse to the campus. In the interim, two UC Davis police officers involved in the incident have been placed on administrative leave following their use of pepper spray.

Related to current policies, I am asking the office of Administrative and Resource Management and the office of Student Affairs to review our policies in relation to encampments of this nature and consider whether our existing policies reflect the needs of the students at this point in time. If our policies do not allow our students enough flexibility to express themselves, then we need to find a way to improve these policies and make them more effective and appropriate.

Our campus is committed to providing a safe environment for all to learn freely and practice their civil rights of freedom of speech and expression. At the same time, our campus has the responsibility to ensure the safety of all others who use the same spaces and rely on the same facilities, tools, environments and processes to practice their freedoms to work and study.

I spoke with students this weekend and I feel their outrage. I am deeply saddened that this happened on our campus, and as chancellor, I take full responsibility for the incident. I pledge to take the actions needed to ensure this does not happen again. I feel sorry for the harm our students were subjected to and I vow to work tirelessly to make the campus a more welcoming and safe place.

Sincerely,
Linda P.B. Katehi
Chancellor
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,198
126
And if they shoot the people on the sidewalk, should you be found responsible, too? Never mind - not really my point.

OK, what if the OWS protestors block campus walkways and roads so that students and professors cannot get to class/work? What should be done?

MotionMan

Call the cops, obviously, if students complain they cannot get to class.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
15
81
fobot.com
ROFL
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rofl