Police mace the hell out of peaceful OWS protesters

[darkswordsman17]

i can't believe we have to live the 1960's all over again

Have some class and refrain from making such absurd analogies.

 

[Newbian]

She had control of ordering the removal or not. If she failed to inform herself on what tactics would be used to execute her order, she did not exercise proper judgment and should resign.

So you are saying it's not ok to call the police for trespassers because the police might shoot them when they resist or try causing harm?

Sounds like a issue you have more then what was done correctly.

 

[theeedude]

When would it be OK to have trespassers removed?

MotionMan

They were "trespassers" because she said they were trespassing and asked the police to remove them. If she said, whatever, they aren't threatening anyone, let them sit all they want, they would not have been "trespassers."
She is paid $400,000 of taxpayer money per year to make just such judgment calls. In this case, her judgment resulted in injuries to students who were not threats to others, disruption to the whole university, and damage to the university reputation. She can no longer function as a chancellor, she cannot effectively lobby and raise money on behalf of the university, she has lost the respect of students, faculty, alumni, and the California taxpayers who pay her salary.
If she wants to go through more of this before getting a clue, she can.

 

[Paladin3]

Sorry, gotta jump in without reading the entire thread...

Wouldn't applying pepper spray by q-tip directly to the eye necessitate first gaining physical control of the subject? People don't voluntarily hold still for stuff like that. And then once the cops had control of the protester there is no longer any need to use the pepper spray to force further compliance. I would guess that may be at least part of the reason the jury found the officers guilty, and the two incidents might not be equal comparisons. EDIT: Just wondering, having only read one short article regarding the q-tip pepper spraying.

Also, nobody siding with the protesters has yet to answer the question of how would you suggest the cops should have removed the protesters after they refused multiple requests and threats to leave? And, no, leaving them where they were was not an option.

And if you can reply without using childish insults then two extra credit points for you.

 

[MotionMan]

They were "trespassers" because she said they were trespassing and asked the police to remove them. If she said, whatever, they aren't threatening anyone, let them sit all they want, they would not have been "trespassers."

So when would it be appropriate to remove the peaceful protesters?

MotionMan

 

[Newbian]

They were "trespassers" because she said they were trespassing and asked the police to remove them. If she said, whatever, they aren't threatening anyone, let them sit all they want, they would not have been "trespassers."
She is paid $400,000 of taxpayer money per year to make just such judgment calls. In this case, her judgment resulted in injuries to students who were not threats to others, disruption to the whole university, and damage to the university reputation. She can no longer function as a chancellor, she cannot effectively lobby and raise money on behalf of the university, she has lost the respect of students, faculty, alumni, and the California taxpayers who pay her salary.
If she wants to go through more of this before getting a clue, she can.

Sorry but her not calling the police and then one of these people caused a violent crime would had been a reason to question her.

She did her job and it was the right thing to do so she has no fault on her.

 

[FoBoT]

Also, nobody siding with the protesters has yet to answer the question of how would you suggest the cops should have removed the protesters after they refused multiple requests and threats to leave?

it is a given premise that OWS has the right to do anything they want, whatever they come up with is protected free speech

i don't think OWS is thinking outside the box enough, they should take Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. literary and start pulling fire alarms in crowded public buildings, that would be a great way to express their concerns

 

[theeedude]

So when would it be appropriate to remove the peaceful protesters?

MotionMan

When the Constitution is repealed.

 

[MotionMan]

When the Constitution is repealed.

You clearly do not understand Constitutional Law. Your rights to free speech and to assemble is not unfettered. There are limits. The fact that you believe there are no limits invalidates your entire opinion.

MotionMan

 

[theeedude]

Sorry but her not calling the police and then one of these people caused a violent crime would had been a reason to question her.

She did her job and it was the right thing to do so she has no fault on her.

Stupid argument. Someone potentially doing something that they didn't do is not an excuse for her decision.

 

[MotionMan]

Stupid argument. Someone potentially doing something that they didn't do is not an excuse for her decision.

She and the school can be blamed for not doing something as much as they can for doing something. Every decision an administrator makes requires a balance of not only what is the best thing to do, but whether nothing the best thing to do.

People who have never had to make such tough decisions seem to think that being in charge of things like large college campuses is an easy thing to do.

MotionMan

 

[theeedude]

You clearly do not understand Constitutional Law. Your rights to free speech and to assemble is not unfettered. There are limits. The fact that you believe there are no limits invalidates your entire opinion.

MotionMan

So who decides when someone can and cannot exercise their free speech rights? And if that person decides in a way that the people who pay her salary disagree with, do they have a right to fire her?

 

[theeedude]

She and the school can be blamed for not doing something as much as they can for doing something. Every decision an administrator makes requires a balance of not only what is the best thing to do, but whether nothing the best thing to do.

People who have never had to make such tough decisions seem to think that being in charge of things like large college campuses is an easy thing to do.

MotionMan

She did not strike the right balance. On one hand was a decision to let some nonviolent protesters sit around in a field. On the other was a decision to escalate and guarantee that there would be injuries, and an embarrassment for the university. She is paid $400,000 per year to strike the right balance, and she has demonstrated that she can not.

 

[MotionMan]

So who decides when someone can and cannot exercise their free speech rights?

In the end, the Courts.

And if that person decides in a way that the people who pay her salary disagree with, do they have a right to fire her?

You can vote out judges you don't like.

BTW, if the Chancellor's actions were legal (which they were, BTW), then there are no grounds to terminate her.

MotionMan

 

[theeedude]

In the end, the Courts.



You can vote out judges you don't like.

BTW, if the Chancellor's actions were legal (which they were, BTW), then there are no grounds to terminate her.

MotionMan

She'll just have to resign on her own, spend more time with her family.
Or more of this. Her call

 

[MotionMan]

She did not strike the right balance. On one hand was a decision to let some nonviolent protesters sit around in a field. On the other was a decision to escalate and guarantee that there would be injuries, and an embarrassment for the university. She is paid $400,000 per year to strike the right balance, and she has demonstrated that she can not.

But for how long is she suppose to let them sit around in a field. What if they decide to move to a road, or into a building, or take over the dorms or basketball arena? When is it OK, in your world, to stop?

MotionMan

 

[mizzou]

they had days to move. Vannah White practically came out and showcased the OC spray before it was used.

They must have pepper sprayed people with short term memory loss, that's the only atrocity there is.

 

[MotionMan]

She'll just have to resign on her own, spend more time with her family.
Or more of this. Her call

So you advocating intimidating people who have broken no laws into resigning from their jobs?

Nice.

MotionMan

 

[theeedude]

So you advocating intimidating people who have broken no laws into resigning from their jobs?

Nice.

MotionMan

I am advocating people who no longer have support of their organization or taxpayers who pay their salary spend more time with their families. Spending time with family is nice. BTW, there was NO intimidation in that video. Just silent treatment.

 

[MotionMan]

I am advocating people who no longer have support of their organization or taxpayers who pay their salary spend more time with their families. Spending time with family is nice.

Who says that she has lost the support of her organization or taxpayers?

Do you even pay taxes?

MotionMan

 

[shortylickens]

they had days to move. Vannah White practically came out and showcased the OC spray before it was used.

They must have pepper sprayed people with short term memory loss, that's the only atrocity there is.

I miss Vanna......
:'(

 

[theeedude]

But for how long is she suppose to let them sit around in a field.

Indefinitely.

What if they decide to move to a road, or into a building, or take over the dorms or basketball arena? When is it OK, in your world, to stop?
MotionMan

When they are hurting others.
I can play hypotheticals too.
At what point do you think the chancellor should resign? When she orders the students shot? Or are you OK with shooting "trespassers?"

 

[theeedude]

Who says that she has lost the support of her organization or taxpayers?

Do you even pay taxes?

MotionMan

Yes, I do. In California. Do you pay taxes in California?

 

[MotionMan]

Indefinitely.

When they are hurting others.

What about when they start impinging on other peoples rights and other students ability to attend classes?

I can play hypotheticals too.
At what point do you think the chancellor should resign? When she orders the students shot? Or are you OK with shooting "trespassers?"

I do not believe that shooting them would be OK. I think she should be removed if she ordered peaceful trespassers shot.

You're not very good at this game, are you?

MotionMan

 

[MotionMan]

Yes, I do. In California. Do you pay taxes in California?

Yes, I do.

I have a license to practice law in California and have handled civil rights cases. You?

MotionMan