Plenty of trouble afoot in Iraq

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Sep 12, 2004
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If the insurgents confined their attacks solely to US forces, they would be making a point about their intention. The fact is, however, they are attacking their own people and the government their people have now elected, which removes just about any validity of them having any sort of honorable or valid intentions whatsoever. They are not fighting for their country, they are fighting for their own personal gain and as a powerplay to regain the control they once had (or to become implement fundy Islam) - so they could once again brutally repress the majority of Iraqis exactly as they did in the past.

Some in here appear to be impressed by the insurgents and one could almost swear they were rooting for the insurgents to succeed. Color me unimpressed. The insurgents apparently don't give two craps about their country or anyone except themselves.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
If the insurgents confined their attacks solely to US forces, they would be making a point about their intention. The fact is, however, they are attacking their own people and the government their people have now elected, which removes just about any validity of them having any sort of honorable or valid intentions whatsoever. They are not fighting for their country, they are fighting for their own personal gain and as a powerplay to regain the control they once had (or to become implement fundy Islam) - so they could once again brutally repress the majority of Iraqis exactly as they did in the past.
I actually agree with you there.

But, that doesn't minimize or dismiss their effectiveness at creating chaos in Iraq that belies what our own government tells us.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
If the insurgents confined their attacks solely to US forces, they would be making a point about their intention. The fact is, however, they are attacking their own people and the government their people have now elected, which removes just about any validity of them having any sort of honorable or valid intentions whatsoever. They are not fighting for their country, they are fighting for their own personal gain and as a powerplay to regain the control they once had (or to become implement fundy Islam) - so they could once again brutally repress the majority of Iraqis exactly as they did in the past.
I actually agree with you there.

But, that doesn't minimize or dismiss their effectiveness at creating chaos in Iraq that belies what our own government tells us.
I don't recall the "government" telling us that Iraq is serene and problem-free. The government-controlled media pawns sure aren't claiming that either. So I'm not sure what your beef is, exactly.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Gen. Myers: "We're winning"

The Propagandist: "We're making really good progress."
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: conjur
Gen. Myers: "We're winning"

The Propagandist: "We're making really good progress."
Ah, I see. You are confused by the fact that "we are winning" and "making really good progress" does not necessarily imply things are "problem-free" and "serene" as well.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: conjur
Gen. Myers: "We're winning"

The Propagandist: "We're making really good progress."
Ah, I see. You are confused by the fact that "we are winning" and "making really good progress" does not necessarily imply things are "problem-free" and "serene" as well.

How about you're confusing what the U.S. media reports with the truth?

If you don't want to read about what's actually happening in Iraq log off and tune into Fox News. Or CNN. Or MSNBC. Or any U.S. MSM. They'll be very happy to tell you all about the latest news from the Michael Jackson trial or anything you ever wanted to know about the runaway bride. :roll:

In the meantime -- here's what's happening in "The New Iraq"? courtesy of George W. Bush.

35 Iraqis Killed as Insurgents Press Spate of Attacks

By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr.

Published: May 2, 2005

BAGHDAD, Iraq, May 1 - Insurgents using car bombs struck a Kurdish funeral near Mosul and American soldiers handing out candy to children in Baghdad on Sunday in the worst of a spate of attacks that killed at least 35 Iraqis and wounded 80. It was an ever grimmer backdrop to efforts by Iraq's first Shiite-majority government to fill gaps in the new cabinet from the restive Sunni minority.

The attacks extended a surge in insurgent mayhem since the government was formed Thursday and capped the bloodiest three-day period of violence in two months. More than 100 Iraqis have been killed and 200 wounded since Friday, as insurgents try to undermine and intimidate the new government.

Leaders of the dominant Shiite political alliance pressed efforts to complete the new cabinet ahead of a swearing-in ceremony now set for as early as Tuesday. But a government without the prominent role the Shiite leaders have promised for Sunnis would be an embarrassing start for the Shiites, who have said they intend to lead a national unity government that broadly reflects the proportions of Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds in the Iraqi population of more than 25 million.

As of Sunday, the Shiite political leaders were insisting that no Sunnis with Baathist pasts be given positions of power, a policy that is a clear break with Ayad Allawi, the departing prime minister. Dr. Allawi, himself a former Baathist, had won American backing for a policy of filling jobs in the military and intelligence services with experienced people, even if they had some links to the deposed government of Saddam Hussein.

Ahmad Chalabi, a deputy prime minister in the new government, said in an interview that he was confident the cabinet would be completed without further disruptions to a process that has consumed more than three months since the Jan. 30 elections.

But with the Shiite majority apparently adamant about keeping even reformed former Baathists out of key positions, major questions have arisen as to whether the government will be handicapped in its attempts to split the insurgency, as American officials have urged, by drawing more moderate elements from the Baathist past into the political process.

Shiite leaders have said they will proceed with the swearing-in of the government this week even without agreements that place Sunnis in the vacant ministries. They have named interim appointees to two key posts - Ibrahim Jaafari, the prime minister-designate, as acting defense minister, and Mr. Chalabi as acting oil minister.

Finding Sunnis willing to serve in the cabinet, and with at least some credibility in a Sunni population that feels dispossessed after dominating Iraqi politics for generations, has also proved hard to reconcile with the Shiite leaders' insistence that the new government has to represent a clear break with the past - especially with the brutal repression of Shiites under Mr. Hussein.

Even if Sunni ministers acceptable to the main Shiite leaders are named ahead of the new ministry's taking office, many Iraqi politicians believe the Shiites could end up with a government with little or no influence among Sunnis, who registered their alienation from the American-led political process with a vestigial turnout in the January elections.

Some positive news emerged Sunday for American and Iraqi forces: the arrests of at least three men thought to be involved in the disappearance of Margaret Hassan, the British-Iraqi head of Iraq operations for CARE International. Her kidnapping and slaying last year symbolized the indiscriminate violence that has convulsed Iraq since the American-led invasion toppled Mr. Hussein two years ago.

An Iraqi Interior Ministry official said some of the men arrested had already confessed to abducting and killing Ms. Hassan, whose identification and other belongings were found in the home of the suspects. But the first secretary of the British Embassy in Baghdad, Martin Cronin, said in an interview Sunday evening that he was unaware of any confessions.

Hours after the capture of Ms. Hassan's suspected abductors, insurgents released a video showing that they had kidnapped a 63-year-old Australian resident of California who identified himself as Douglas Wood, who worked with the Iraqi military.

Among American officials, who had hoped for a strong, fast start from the Jaafari government, the uncertainties over the government lineup have compounded anxieties about coming months, when the new government is supposed to lead in the drafting of a new constitution and preparations for elections in December for a full five-year government.

People close to Dr. Allawi, the head of what has been a caretaker administration since the January elections, and to Kurdish leaders whose support for Dr. Jaafari cleared the way for his nomination as prime minister, have made no secret of their lack of confidence in Dr. Jaafari. They have expressed doubts in the commitment by the Shiite religious parties to set aside their earlier commitments to remold Iraq into a strict Islamic state.

Ominously for the Jaafari government, the secular Shiites who find their leader in Dr. Allawi, and at least some of the Kurdish leaders, are hoping that the 12-party Shiite alliance that won the elections will splinter under the pressure of office sometime before the December elections, clearing the way for a political realignment in which the religious parties are pushed aside in favor of a centrist, secular bloc that could resume reconciliation with former Baathists, and a gradual winding-down of the war.

Four Sunni Arabs have been appointed to the cabinet so far, but the most important post allotted to the Sunnis, minister of defense, has not been filled. Four candidates are being discussed for that position, said Mr. Chalabi, a favorite of the Bush administration before a falling out last year, who has emerged as a leading figure in the Shiite alliance. "We're getting closer," he said, "but no deal is done unless it's done."

The insurgents' deadliest attack on Sunday struck a funeral in Tal Afar, a restive town about halfway between the northern city of Mosul and the Syrian border. The victims were attending the funeral of a relative of a Kurdish member of the Ninewah Provincial Council when a car bomb ripped through the procession, killing 25 Iraqis and wounding 50 others, the American military said.

Insurgent gunmen killed five Iraqi police officers at the Nahrawan checkpoint in southeast Baghdad at 6 a.m., an Interior Ministry official said.

Another car bomb struck children playing next to an American military convoy in the Zafaraniya district of southern Baghdad at 11 a.m., killing 3 children and wounding 22 others, according to an official at Al Kindi Hospital.

The wounded included the three sons of a neighborhood resident, Karemah Lazem Muhammad. "I heard a huge explosion," Mrs. Muhammad. "I went out to see what happened and saw a plume of smoke rising in the sky. I rushed to see that my three kids were wounded. Now what can I do with three disabled kids?"

Her sons lay in a room at the Kindi Hospital Sunday afternoon. Haidar Qasem, 11, had just had one foot amputated; what remained of his lower leg was wrapped in six-inch-thick white bandages. Lying on a gray blanket, he wore a gray T-shirt with "USA" stenciled in large red letters.

The youngest son, Ali, 5, lay nearby, his head wrapped in a bloody bandage as his mother, wearing a black abaya, sobbed and wiped her face.

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: conjur
Gen. Myers: "We're winning"

The Propagandist: "We're making really good progress."
Ah, I see. You are confused by the fact that "we are winning" and "making really good progress" does not necessarily imply things are "problem-free" and "serene" as well.

How about you're confusing what the U.S. media reports with the truth?
Good job not reading what I wrote, or reading it and plainly ignoring it.

Lord forbid someone should actually claim there can be progress and yet still acknowledge there are also problems within that progress, eh? Totally fvcks up your doom&gloom BS when people do that, doesn't it?

Tell you what. How about you log of and go read about the insurgent attacks on CNN, Fox, MSNBC, or any of the other news sites while they ignore progress in Iraq wholesale? I'm sure it would do your heart good knowing someone only focuses on the bad...just like you.

Peas in a fvcking pod. :roll:
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: conjur
Gen. Myers: "We're winning"

The Propagandist: "We're making really good progress."
Ah, I see. You are confused by the fact that "we are winning" and "making really good progress" does not necessarily imply things are "problem-free" and "serene" as well.

How about you're confusing what the U.S. media reports with the truth?
Good job not reading what I wrote, or reading it and plainly ignoring it.

Lord forbid someone should actually claim there can be progress and yet still acknowledge there are also problems within that progress, eh? Totally fvcks up your doom&gloom BS when people do that, doesn't it?

Tell you what. How about you log of and go read about the insurgent attacks on CNN, Fox, MSNBC, or any of the other news sites while they ignore progress in Iraq wholesale? I'm sure it would do your heart good knowing someone only focuses on the bad...just like you.

Peas in a fvcking pod. :roll:

The truth hurts, doesn't it Chicken?

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
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Someone is lying. Based on past performance I wonder who that could be?

Italy media reveals Iraq details

By David Willey
BBC News in Rome

Italian media have published classified sections of an official US military inquiry into the accidental killing of an Italian agent in Baghdad.

The 40-page report was censored by the Pentagon before being officially published on Saturday.

Italy has refused to accept the US report's findings and is to publish its own version of events later this week.

Details of the official report were published in newspapers on Sunday with censored material restored in full.

Missing text

A Greek medical student at Bologna University who was surfing the web early on Sunday found that with two simple clicks of his computer mouse he could restore censored portions of the report.

He passed the details to Italian newspapers which immediately put out the full text on their own websites.

The missing text contains the names and ranks of all of the American military personnel involved in the killing of Nicola Calipari, the Italian agent who was given a state funeral and awarded Italy's highest medal of valour.

It also reveals the rules of engagement in operation at the military checkpoint near Baghdad airport which have been contested by the Italian authorities.

The censored sections include recommendations that the American military modify their checkpoint procedures to give better and clearer warning signs to approaching vehicles.

The official Italian report on the incident expected to be published this week will accuse the American military of tampering with evidence at the scene of the shooting.

The Americans invited two Italians to join in their inquiry, but the Italian representatives protested at what they claimed was lack of objectivity in presenting the evidence and returned to Rome.

Relations between Rome and Washington remain tense.



 

Deptacon

Platinum Member
Nov 22, 2004
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Originally posted by: conjur
Gen. Myers: "We're winning"

The Propagandist: "We're making really good progress."

are we patrolling streets now, NO iraqi forces are

are we getting an iraqi govt in place yes

is the iraqi military getting bigger and better trained to handle itself on its own... yes

are the number of COMBAT PERSONEL coming down in deployments to iraq yes

iraqi economy and job market gettgin better and to a stable point yes


this sounds like progress to me.... but apparently you wont be happy till we get IRaqi disney



 

Deptacon

Platinum Member
Nov 22, 2004
2,282
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Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: conjur
Gen. Myers: "We're winning"

The Propagandist: "We're making really good progress."
Ah, I see. You are confused by the fact that "we are winning" and "making really good progress" does not necessarily imply things are "problem-free" and "serene" as well.

How about you're confusing what the U.S. media reports with the truth?
Good job not reading what I wrote, or reading it and plainly ignoring it.

Lord forbid someone should actually claim there can be progress and yet still acknowledge there are also problems within that progress, eh? Totally fvcks up your doom&gloom BS when people do that, doesn't it?

Tell you what. How about you log of and go read about the insurgent attacks on CNN, Fox, MSNBC, or any of the other news sites while they ignore progress in Iraq wholesale? I'm sure it would do your heart good knowing someone only focuses on the bad...just like you.

Peas in a fvcking pod. :roll:

The truth hurts, doesn't it Chicken?

ummm Bbond, he just totally put you in your place, and he is so right, and your so naive, you missed it... hahahaha
 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: BBond
The truth hurts, doesn't it Chicken?
As you seemingly fail to recognize truth, how would you even know if it does or not?

In your case I'd have to believe that ts cluelessness that hurts. Though you probably wouldn't recognize that if it jumped out of your skull and slapped you dead in the face either.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BBond
The truth hurts, doesn't it Chicken?
As you seemingly fail to recognize truth, how would you even know if it does or not?

In your case I'd have to believe that ts cluelessness that hurts. Though you probably wouldn't recognize that if it jumped out of your skull and slapped you dead in the face either.

The truth is jumping out of this thread and slapping you dead in the face.

But apparently, "You can't handle the truth"

:)

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BBond
The truth hurts, doesn't it Chicken?
As you seemingly fail to recognize truth, how would you even know if it does or not?

In your case I'd have to believe that ts cluelessness that hurts. Though you probably wouldn't recognize that if it jumped out of your skull and slapped you dead in the face either.

The truth is jumping out of this thread and slapping you dead in the face.

But apparently, "You can't handle the truth"

:)
Your idea is truth comes from Hollywood?

Laff.

Figures.

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BBond
The truth hurts, doesn't it Chicken?
As you seemingly fail to recognize truth, how would you even know if it does or not?

In your case I'd have to believe that ts cluelessness that hurts. Though you probably wouldn't recognize that if it jumped out of your skull and slapped you dead in the face either.

The truth is jumping out of this thread and slapping you dead in the face.

But apparently, "You can't handle the truth"

:)
Your idea is truth comes from Hollywood?

Laff.

Figures.

My idea of truth comes from the news links posted in this thread. Not from the mouth of a liar like Bush.



 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BBond
The truth hurts, doesn't it Chicken?
As you seemingly fail to recognize truth, how would you even know if it does or not?

In your case I'd have to believe that ts cluelessness that hurts. Though you probably wouldn't recognize that if it jumped out of your skull and slapped you dead in the face either.

The truth is jumping out of this thread and slapping you dead in the face.

But apparently, "You can't handle the truth"

:)
Your idea is truth comes from Hollywood?

Laff.

Figures.

My idea of truth comes from the news links posted in this thread. Not from the mouth of a liar like Bush.
Your idea of truth seems to be ignoring progress and focusing only on the bad news, as if that's all there is. Go ahead and call that "truth" if you think it makes you look smart. imo, it doesn't make you look smart at all. It merely makes you look as if you turn a blind eye to the real truth.

Then you go typify anyone who dares believe there may be progress in Iraq as a blind follower of Bush. That doesn't make you look smart either.

But press on. I don't expect you will ever change.
 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Are you implying that the news posted in this thread is bogus? It didn't happen?

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
8,363
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Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BBond
Are you implying that the news posted in this thread is bogus? It didn't happen?
Are you really this dense IRL, BBond, or do you just play dumb online?

Can you answer the question?

Are the links in this thread true? Did the events reported in this thread really happen? Or are they made up...like Bush's WMD?

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: BBond
Are you implying that the news posted in this thread is bogus? It didn't happen?
Are you really this dense IRL, BBond, or do you just play dumb online?

Can you answer the question?

Are the links in this thread true? Did the events reported in this thread really happen? Or are they made up...like Bush's WMD?
Can you stop being dense and making crap up in the process?

Nowhere have I denied the news reports were untrue. In fact, I made some observations about the insurgent attacks earlier. The difference is that I don't pretend as if they are the only thing happening in Iraq and myopically focus on that as you seem to do, ignoring all else or at least pretending that "progress" in Iraq doesn't exist.

Get it yet? Or am I talking to a wall?

 

BBond

Diamond Member
Oct 3, 2004
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So concentrating on the happy talk from the chimp is the truth?

And we invaded Iraq to bring them freedom and democracy, right?

:roll:

WTFU

Is this what you call progress??? Freedom and democracy???

And where is all that WMD?

Five journalists arrested in past two weeks

Report, RSF/IFEX - Electronic Iraq

28 April 2005 - RSF has voiced alarm over the arrests of five journalists in the past two weeks. "We are very worried about the increase in arrests of local journalists, often without any evidence, or for unknown reasons. Iraqi journalists now have to deal with this new problem, in which their employers are often powerless to act. Both employers and family members must be given an explanation for such arrests," the organisation said.

"We appeal to the Iraqi authorities to be more discerning and restrained, and to avoid carrying out hasty and arbitrary arrests. The police have sometimes behaved in a completely unacceptable fashion, both in the beatings meted out to a Reuters cameraman and two of his assistants, and in exorbitant bail requests that are tantamount to extortion," RSF added.

The organisation called on the Iraqi authorities to put an end to such "disgraceful practices" and to either quickly produce evidence to back up their allegations or release the journalists.

The first journalist targeted in the latest wave of arrests was Hussein Al Shimari, a reporter with the satellite television station Al-Diyar. On 9 April 2005, he was detained by Iraqi soldiers in Dyala province, northeast of Baghdad, on suspicion of collaborating with insurgents. His editor said he was tortured. He has not been allowed to contact his family, nor have they received any word of him since his arrest.

On 12 April, the mayor of the southern city of Kawit ordered the arrest of Ayad Altmimi, editor-in-chief of the daily "Sada Wasit", and journalist Ahmed Mutare Abass. Ibrahim Al-Srage, of IJRDA, an organisation that defends Iraqi journalists, said the mayor sought an arrest warrant from his cousin, the town's public prosecutor, who responded by sentencing Altmimi to two months in prison and Abass to four months in prison for libel. The newspaper had carried reports about ongoing insecurity in the city and the municipal authorities' shortcomings.

On 20 April, several policemen burst into the home of freelance cameraman Hassan Walid Abdul Wahab, 23, who works for the German television station Zweites Deutsches Fernsehen (ZDF). They arrested him, his two brothers (who do not work for the news media) and his father, a retired cinema operator in his 50s who was recently hospitalised with heart problems. A relative said the police accused Wahab of having links with the abductors of three Romanian journalists. On 26 April, after relatives repeatedly asked to visit the detainees, the police requested payment of US$10,000 in bail.

On 24 April, police arrested Reuters Television cameraman Nabil Hussein in the northern city of Mosul (see IFEX alert of 26 April 2005). Reached by telephone, Reuters spokesperson Susan Allsopp told RSF that police had not indicated if he was charged. According to Reuters, Hussein's father was also arrested when he tried to visit his son a few hours after his arrest.

Describing the original arrest, relatives told Reuters that about 20 police officers raided the journalist's home in the morning, beating Hussein, another journalist and their driver, before taking them to Mosul police headquarters. The driver, Ismail Ibrahim, said police "put sacks on [their] heads and beat [them]."

Reuters global managing editor David Schlesinger said he was very concerned about the arrests and called for the immediate release of Hussein and his father. "We are anxious to establish why our cameraman is being held and what if any charges have been brought," he said. On 26 April, Reuters said it was still awaiting further news of the situation

 
Sep 12, 2004
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Originally posted by: BBond
So concentrating on the happy talk from the chimp is the truth?
Acknowledging progress (as well as the insurgency) is "concentrating on the happy talk"?

How ignorant. How utterly and completely ignorant.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Please take the back-and-forth bickering elsewhere.

TLC, if you want to focus on the "happy talk" then create a new thread. I've recommended to several people to start a thread on the good news out of Iraq.

How many do we see in P&N? ZERO.

Now, back on-topic:


Bombs kill 11, wound 29 in Baghdad
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/05/02/iraq.main/
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Four car bombs -- which came in waves of two -- exploded in separate locations in the Iraqi capital Monday, killing 11 Iraqis and wounding 29 others, a local official said.

The bombings came a day after a suicide attack during the funeral of a Kurdish party member killed about 25 people.

An official with Baghdad's emergency police said one car bomb exploded around 10 a.m. (2 a.m. ET) Monday outside a private building in the Karada neighborhood in the south-central region of the city, killing nine Iraqi civilians and wounding 12 others.

The blast damaged shops near the attack, the official added.

Just a few minutes before that explosion, a car bomb apparently targeting an Iraqi commando convoy blew up around 9:50 a.m. in the al-Huriyah neighborhood in northwest Baghdad, wounding two Iraqi commandos, the official said.

The leader of Baghdad's commando forces, Maj. Gen. Rasheed Aflayeh, was in one of the convoy vehicles, but escaped unharmed, the official said.

About two hours later, two people -- including two Iraqi policemen -- were killed when a car bomb targeting an Iraqi police patrol exploded in the Zayouna neighborhood in east-central Baghdad, the emergency police official said.

That explosion, which occurred around 12:30 p.m., wounded eleven other people, the official said.

In northern Baghdad in the al-Tarmiyah area, a car bomb targeting an Iraqi army convoy exploded around 12:10 p.m., wounding four people -- including an Iraqi soldier and a member of the Iraqi police, the Baghdad emergency police official said.
And today's news shows were covering what? Runaway bride and Michael Jackson. ooof