Please tell me how does one who is on welfare afford Nextel?

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: KGB

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: KGB
I'm not trying to convert you guys or say what you think is wrong. Certainly its different from my belief system. But you cannot stand out in a crowd and tell that poor person or needy person to suck a nut before you lay down 1 red cent to his pocket. It's humanity, we all have our families, but we ourselves are part of a greater family that need to support each other. Its in our nature to help just as it is to deceive, use, exploit things also. There is always a compromise.

Ironically, even though I am religious... I see that its religion that separates and breeds hate and selfishness.

if it's our nature, then why do we need to be forced to do it?

Because were lazy and probably wouldn't do it ourselves, and that's why we have represtative democracy rather than a direct democracy.

great, so lets make welfare opt-out! that way all those lazy people won't have to do anything to give!

 

[KGB1]

Originally posted by: BatmanNate

Originally posted by: KGB

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: KGB
I'm not trying to convert you guys or say what you think is wrong. Certainly its different from my belief system. But you cannot stand out in a crowd and tell that poor person or needy person to suck a nut before you lay down 1 red cent to his pocket. It's humanity, we all have our families, but we ourselves are part of a greater family that need to support each other. Its in our nature to help just as it is to deceive, use, exploit things also. There is always a compromise.

Ironically, even though I am religious... I see that its religion that separates and breeds hate and selfishness.

if it's our nature, then why do we need to be forced to do it?

Because were lazy and probably wouldn't do it ourselves, and that's why we have represtative democracy rather than a direct democracy.

What we are discussing is in direct contradiction; both cannot be true. If somebody held a gun to your head and told you to sponsor a child, that would not be humanity. You would not be doing it out of the good of your heart. Do you see the difference? There is nothing wrong with your church helping the poor or donating to World Vision out of altruism or human concern. Being forced to by the government is a different story makes it no longer good will, just submission. Also, deceit and exploitation are not human nature. Human nature is survival, and that is met by working and earning your way in this country. Choosing to exploit or deceive instead is a choice. Our nature is not to blame, we all have the same "nature" and we are not all cheaters and exploiters

But what draws you to give the example of using violence to help others? "Human nature is survival" Survival right? How do we go about doing that? I think a good deal of selfishness and cooperativeness go's along well together. We survive because we do exploit and use things but just at the same time work together to get through it. Your boss does not pay you cuz he likes you, its because you work for your cause while, at the same time you help his(bosses)... which eventually work its way up to the ceo's and such to survive and prosper. But there's always someone left behind, and is we can help them, we should and not be obligated by gov't or religion to do so either. Maybe I'm being to optimistic anyway 🙂

It was not an example of violence, just being forced. Instead of holding a gun to your head perhaps consider being hauled off to jail, because that's what would happen if you didn't pay your taxes. Selfishness and cooperative behavior are to the benefit of our survival, but cooperating in circumstances in which we gain nothing is not. That is not a value for value arrangement when I give and you take and I get nothing in return, you see? A more accurate illustration than you portrayed would be to say my boss does not pay me because I need money. He pays me because of the work I do for him which he needs and is willing to trade his value (money) for mine (work). If this were on the same ideological plain as welfare, he would be forced to give me a job because I needed it, not because of the skills I had to offer him.

😀 By all means... write to your congressman... cuz I will. Tell him what you writing here too. Cuz I don't think Sen.Chuck Schumer comes along to atot often. If you don't agree with it... don't move away like what alec baldwin preaches he would do rather do something about it. That's my advice. State your case and get signatures. For example that's the ONLY we got more funding to our school through the gov't. Not asking city councilman, but we went directly to the governor, state council and senators in the us senate. And believe me the new dell pc's in school are damn nice 😀 Taxes are a burden and I myself know of the burden of being single in the US and paying taxes through the nose.

 

[Nocturnal]

Shoots we could use some Dells at our comm college 🙂

 

[TerryMathews]

Wellfare is one of the worst gov't programs of the last 100 years. They should can it, bring back the CCC and expand it out to include non-construct activities like secretarial work.

If I have to earn my paycheck, they should have to do the same. I could really care less what they do, but they should have to do something. Heck, free gov't-sponsored car washes run by welfare recipients sounds great to me!

 

[Nocturnal]

Another thing that pisses me off. I just had a customer ask for a car charger. I know for a fact that I'm out of stock. I told him I didn't have any and he then referred to another car charger that only works for Ericsson phones. I then told him that it doesn't work with a Motorola phone and that I'm out of stock.

I really wanted to tell him, "listen, If I had the item in stock I would not lie to you and tell you that it wasn't in stock. I want to help my company succeed by selling as much items as I can. I am not going to lie and say it isn't here, moron."

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: kranky
One possibility is that some people on welfare lie about being eligible.

i don't know what's wrong with those people, do they just not have any shred of decency in them? i can't imagine just walking around knowing i was cheating my fellow citizens out of their money.

Some people just like to think for themselves, unconstrained by traditional human morality. Hello, free lunch!

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: KGB
^^ So you really don't care about your neighbor and help him/her when they need it. Beit through welfare or even short of handing them money. I'm a religious man, in religion giving is the best virtue and kindest thing to do. Not to feel superior to the one you gave to, but to give hope and help them. Guidance is what is missing from those people.

i might agree, but why should i be forced to be a nice and kind person? i mean, if i wanted to be a nice and kind person, i could always donate to a charity, couldn't i? i don't think it's crazy to say that if i'm not doing hurtful things to other people, i should be left alone... if i want to help others, i'll find a way to do it, but i don't need it forced out of me.

Why should you be forced to help others? Because the Left believes in forcing its morality on others. Ted Kennedy, Chuck Shumer, Hilary Clinton, etc., are free to start a private charity to benefit the less fortunate, but why bother with that when they can just send the IRS to take more money from your paycheck, and help you become a better, more caring, person in the process? The government will decide just how helpful you'll be, thank you very much.

 

[Cyberian]

I think I fall somewhere in the middle of the "we should all help the less fortunate" and " let them work for it like I did", camps.

This has been an interesting read, and probably the most civil 'political' discussion I've seen here in quite some time.
Obviously, it can be done!