Please catch the HBO airing of WHEN THE LEVEES BROKE - FOUR ACTS

[randym431]

Please catch the HBO airing of WHEN THE LEVEES BROKE - FOUR ACTS.

This I think was by Spike Lee. Very very powerful docu of the events. Well worth watching the 4 hour docu. And worth getting HBO just to catch this program.

Totally shocking!!!

Just as we MUST get Bin Laden for 9/11, Americans MUST "MUST" get Bush OUT of the White House and Republicans OUT of congress for this disgrace on America by the Bush Admin. THEY MUST GO!!!

This, just like 9/11, is UNFORGIVABLE. Bush is the most anti-American since Hitler and Bin Laden...PERIOD!

PS All four parts are on again friday 9/1 on hbo @ 10:45am.

Who needs Snakes on a plane when we have snakes controlling the US gov...

 

[K1052]

How about responsibility for the numerous local, state, and federal administrations over the last 80 years that let this come to pass in the first place? People had been going on for years about just such a scenario. This disaster was entirely forseeable and preventable, yet each level of government flubbed it's reponsibilities and response.

Bush is just the unlucky shmoe to get stuck with the mess and his less than stellar management and communication skills have not helped him get out of it. Everyone in the various governments before him just decided to cross their fingers and hope it didn't hit while they were in office. Those at state and local level should be happy that they have Bush as a scapegoat to cover their own glaring failures as public officials.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: K1052
How about responsibility for the numerous local, state, and federal administrations over the last 80 years that let this come to pass in the first place? People had been going on for years about just such a scenario. This disaster was entirely forseeable and preventable, yet each level of government flubbed it's reponsibilities and response.

Bush is just the unlucky shmoe to get stuck with the mess and his less than stellar management and communication skills have not helped him get out of it. Everyone in the various governments before him just decided to cross their fingers and hope it didn't hit while they were in office. Those at state and local level should be happy that they have Bush as a scapegoat to cover their own glaring failures as public officials.

Bush sure does get "unlucky" a lot

 

[Starbuck1975]

Bush sure does get "unlucky" a lot

9/11 and Katrina are two fairly large strokes of bad luck for any President...granted, Bush has failed to demonstrate the leadership vision for responding to these events...but the dynamics that set both of these tragedies in place existed well before Bush took office, and span several Administrations, both Democrat and Republican.

As for Katrina, I agree with K1052 that the entire tragedy was largely avoidable...to include the failure of the levees. The state and local officials who had the most power to prevent this crisis failed to do so, and Bush was essentially left with clean-up duty on a disaster that exceeded anyone's expectations in terms of magnitude and scope.

A more capable leader could communicate a vision for responding to the tragedy...but some of the blame should fall on those who enabled this tragedy to happen in the first place.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: randym431
Please catch the HBO airing of WHEN THE LEVEES BROKE - FOUR ACTS.

This I think was by Spike Lee. Very very powerful docu of the events. Well worth watching the 4 hour docu. And worth getting HBO just to catch this program.

Totally shocking!!!

Just as we MUST get Bin Laden for 9/11, Americans MUST "MUST" get Bush OUT of the White House and Republicans OUT of congress for this disgrace on America by the Bush Admin. THEY MUST GO!!!

This, just like 9/11, is UNFORGIVABLE. Bush is the most anti-American since Hitler and Bin Laden...PERIOD!

PS All four parts are on again friday 9/1 on hbo @ 10:45am.

Who needs Snakes on a plane when we have snakes controlling the US gov...

THREAD OF THE YEAR! What makes this even sadder is that about 80% of P&N agree with everything you just said.

 

[Starbuck1975]

If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break,
If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break,
When The Levee Breaks I'll have no place to stay.

Mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Lord, mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Got what it takes to make a mountain man leave his home,
Oh, well, oh, well, oh, well.

Don't it make you feel bad
When you're tryin' to find your way home,
You don't know which way to go?
If you're goin' down South
They go no work to do,
If you don't know about Chicago.

Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
Now, cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move.

All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
Thinkin' 'bout me baby and my happy home.
Going, go'n' to Chicago,
Go'n' to Chicago,
Sorry but I can't take you.
Going down, going down now, going down.

 

[Kwaipie]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Bush sure does get "unlucky" a lot

9/11 and Katrina are two fairly large strokes of bad luck for any President...granted, Bush has failed to demonstrate the leadership vision for responding to these events...but the dynamics that set both of these tragedies in place existed well before Bush took office, and span several Administrations, both Democrat and Republican.

As for Katrina, I agree with K1052 that the entire tragedy was largely avoidable...to include the failure of the levees. The state and local officials who had the most power to prevent this crisis failed to do so, and Bush was essentially left with clean-up duty on a disaster that exceeded anyone's expectations in terms of magnitude and scope.

A more capable leader could communicate a vision for responding to the tragedy...but some of the blame should fall on those who enabled this tragedy to happen in the first place.

Consider that the President is the CEO of the country. Yes, 9/11 and Katrina were horrible things to happen to his reign. The various gov'ts knew about the levee issues for decades yet did nothing. George's response to September 11th was very surprising to me. I didn't think he had what it took to take a leadership role in that tragedy. Then everything went to hell. Iraq? WTF? Just think of everything that could have been done with those hundreds of B (capital) illions of dollars. New levees? Sure. Funding the No Child Left Behind act? certainly.

Instead, he refuses to take responsibility for the shortcomings of his presidency. The board of directors of any corporation would have fired him years ago.

As for Spike Lee's "documentary", I refuse to spend my valuable time watching conspiracy theories about white people destroying levees on purpose to wash the chocolate out of Nawlins. absurd.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break,
If it keeps on rainin', levee's goin' to break,
When The Levee Breaks I'll have no place to stay.

Mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Lord, mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Got what it takes to make a mountain man leave his home,
Oh, well, oh, well, oh, well.

Don't it make you feel bad
When you're tryin' to find your way home,
You don't know which way to go?
If you're goin' down South
They go no work to do,
If you don't know about Chicago.

Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
Now, cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move.

All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
Thinkin' 'bout me baby and my happy home.
Going, go'n' to Chicago,
Go'n' to Chicago,
Sorry but I can't take you.
Going down, going down now, going down.

Bourbon blues on the street loose and complete
Under skies all smoky blue-green
I can Forksake the dixie dead shake
So we dance the sidewalk clean
My memory is muddy what's this river I'm in
New Orleans is sinking and I don't want to swim

Colonel Tom What's wrong? What's Going On
You can't tie yourself up for a deal
He said" Hey North you're south shut you big mouth
You gotta do what you feel is real."
Ain't got no picture postcards ain't go no souvenirs
My baby she don't know me when I'm thinking about thoes years

Pale as a light bulb hanging on a wire
Sucking up to someone just stoke the fire
Picking out the highlights of the scenery
Saw a little cloud looked a little like me

I had My hand in the river
My feet back up on the banks
Looked up to the Lord above and said hey man thanks
Some time I fell so good I gotta scream
She says Gordie baby I know exactly what you mean
She said, she said I swear to God she said

My memory is muddy what's this river I'm in
New Orleans is sinking and I don't want to swim

 

[spidey07]

If I wanted to see more bush bashing I'll look to michael moore or just turn on the drive by media.

This "documentary" is nothing more than a bash fest.

Notice how he didn't include Brown? Isn't that convienent.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: randym431
Please catch the HBO airing of WHEN THE LEVEES BROKE - FOUR ACTS.

This I think was by Spike Lee. Very very powerful docu of the events. Well worth watching the 4 hour docu. And worth getting HBO just to catch this program.

Totally shocking!!!

...

Does Spike Lee talk about the study done by the local paper that said a huricane could flood New Orleans and that the local politicans either ignored the report or just refused to take any kind of action?

How about the school busses that could have been used to remove people from New Orleans?

How about the offer by Amtrak to use the trains it was removing from New Orleans to evacuate people?

How aboiut the fact that the Post Office and UPS did not lose ONE package due to the huricane, they must have had plans in place huh?

Does he give any mention to the good things done by the government such as:

Katrina was the largest and fastest rescue effort in U.S. history with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving on scene with days of the storms landfall.
Within a week the National Guard had saved 17,000 people and the Coast Guard 33,000.

How about the fact that Bush declared a federal emergency BEFORE the huricane hit in order to give the state access to federal help.

No doubt there were failure at all levels of government before and after Katrina. But you can't blame Bush for those failures, the worst ones happened at the local level.

Mayor Nagin shows his incompetence everytime he opens his mouth: "chocolate city" New York "hole in the ground"

Meanwhile Mississippi is on track for a great recovery and Florida recovers from major huricanes every year.

 

[Todd33]

Did you watch it ProfJohn? Why rattle off the Fwd:Fwd: right wing talking points defensively without knowing what the 4hr program even says? Who were you before the ban, your one sentence paragraphs are very familiar?

 

[amish]

why start attacking ProfJohn? all he is doing is countering your plug with vaild points. why not inform him of specific instances where bush was at fault with katrina? i guess debating is a lost art. instead all you've done is made me not want to watch this "documentary" even more.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: amish
why start attacking ProfJohn? all he is doing is countering your plug with vaild points. why not inform him of specific instances where bush was at fault with katrina? i guess debating is a lost art. instead all you've done is made me not want to watch this "documentary" even more.

Why should he repeat something if the documentary already covered it? Why would anyone ask questions to be answered without even having seen the program being talked about?

 

[squirrel dog]

One good thing is that Harry Belafonte looks to be losing his voice .

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Did you watch it ProfJohn? Why rattle off the Fwd:Fwd: right wing talking points defensively without knowing what the 4hr program even says? Who were you before the ban, your one sentence paragraphs are very familiar?

I do not have HBO, so I have not watched it. If you read my post you will see I started my questions with "Does Spike Lee talk about..." In other words, I was asking if he mentioned any of those things. Now since you have seen it feel free to point out any of those things I mention that Spike Lee mentions, or better yet, refutes.

My understanding of the TV show is that it is rather biased and one sided. He uses Harry Belafonte, who has a tendency to make mildly racist comments right, as a commentator? He also passes on the idea that the levees near the 9th ward were blown up in order to flood the "poor" peoples homes in order to save the "rich" peoples homes. (Replace 'poor' with 'black' and 'rich' with 'white' to get his real meaning.

It is a shame that the first major TV show about Katrina is rather political in nature and not a fair and balanced look at the events before and after the event.
How about a meaningful look at the failures of the local and state governments leading up to the huricane. as well as the "failure" of FEMA after the event. Instead of politcal attacks and finger pointing we would be much better off with a 'true' view of events.

For a great read about Katrina and some serious debunking of its "myth" try this non-political report by Popular Mechanics.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/2315076.html

BTW: Todd33, I have not been banned before, I only found this site last month as I was looking for a computer and some advice on buying vs. building.

 

[tommywishbone]

IMO, anyone who looks to 2006 American goverment, especially a bush goverment, for any measure of assistance (unless you're a Billionaire looking for a tax break) is nuts. Look at the man; why would he give a f;ck about anyone other than a fellow right-rear-seat-limo-rider.

I think bush is buttwater, but the people in NO knew what was heading their way... they should have run. IMO.

Edit: Because buttwater ain't got no hyphen.

 

[kage69]

Bush is just the unlucky shmoe to get stuck with the mess and his less than stellar management and communication skills have not helped him get out of it. Everyone in the various governments before him just decided to cross their fingers and hope it didn't hit while they were in office. Those at state and local level should be happy that they have Bush as a scapegoat to cover their own glaring failures as public officials.

The problem I have with that is it just wasn't being unlucky that made Bush appoint an unqualified twit to head FEMA. His penchant for cronyism finally bit him in the ass, and many people suffered and died because of it. His rather uncaring demeanor throughout the whole storm added to his sleezy and dismissive image - when a president is made aware of what kind of serious situation it was, one would expect him to ask questions, get involved, that sort of thing. Bush didn't. In fact, he went to a baseball game.
Look at all of the previous serious hurricanes in the last 50 years and how the presidents in office prepared and handled them - now compare that with the bungling and innaction we went through with Katrina. It's almost like he didn't have a clue or a care...

While I think there is a lot of blame to place on the local governments, ultimately it's organizations like FEMA and the National Guard who move in when the serous sh!t hits the fan, and their ability to do so (or difficulty in this case) rests on the president. Chertoff also desrves a lot of blame. If the fallout after Katrina wasn't a case of Homeland Security, (any instance of widescale civilian death really) then I don't know what is. As if the continued lax security of this country wasn't enough to make HS look ineffectivive.

Bush is not really a scapegoat, but he is the 'final buck.' He's a lazy, selfish, ignorant man who shouldn't come within 100yds of the White House, let alone conduct our nations business from it.

Makes you wonder, how much better off would the response had been had Bush choosen a competent and experienced person to head FEMA? How much more could have been done had huge numbers of the National Guard not been deployed in Iraq?

I really hope these local Southern governments get their sh!t together, now that they know they can't rely on the feds to save the day when things get really bad. The 'commerce before safety' attitude on federal money needs to be dropped like a bad habit, for everyone's sake.

One good thing is that Harry Belafonte looks to be losing his voice .

:thumbsup:


I have a buddy with HBO who taped it for me, but I leave town tomorrow. Guess it'll have to wait till I get back. And with that, I have to pack...

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: kage69

Bush is just the unlucky shmoe to get stuck with the mess and his less than stellar management and communication skills have not helped him get out of it. Everyone in the various governments before him just decided to cross their fingers and hope it didn't hit while they were in office. Those at state and local level should be happy that they have Bush as a scapegoat to cover their own glaring failures as public officials.

The problem I have with that is it just wasn't being unlucky that made Bush appoint an unqualified twit to head FEMA. His penchant for cronyism finally bit him in the ass, and many people suffered and died because of it. His rather uncaring demeanor throughout the whole storm added to his sleezy and dismissive image - when a president is made aware of what kind of serious situation it was, one would expect him to ask questions, get involved, that sort of thing. Bush didn't. In fact, he went to a baseball game.
Look at all of the previous serious hurricanes in the last 50 years and how the presidents in office prepared and handled them - now compare that with the bungling and innaction we went through with Katrina. It's almost like he didn't have a clue or a care...

While I think there is a lot of blame to place on the local governments, ultimately it's organizations like FEMA and the National Guard who move in when the serous sh!t hits the fan, and their ability to do so (or difficulty in this case) rests on the president. Chertoff also desrves a lot of blame. If the fallout after Katrina wasn't a case of Homeland Security, (any instance of widescale civilian death really) then I don't know what is. As if the continued lax security of this country wasn't enough to make HS look ineffectivive.

Bush is not really a scapegoat, but he is the 'final buck.' He's a lazy, selfish, ignorant man who shouldn't come within 100yds of the White House, let alone conduct our nations business from it.

Makes you wonder, how much better off would the response had been had Bush choosen a competent and experienced person to head FEMA? How much more could have been done had huge numbers of the National Guard not been deployed in Iraq?

I really hope these local Southern governments get their sh!t together, now that they know they can't rely on the feds to save the day when things get really bad. The 'commerce before safety' attitude on federal money needs to be dropped like a bad habit, for everyone's sake.

One good thing is that Harry Belafonte looks to be losing his voice .

:thumbsup:


I have a buddy with HBO who taped it for me, but I leave town tomorrow. Guess it'll have to wait till I get back. And with that, I have to pack...

I never gave Bush a pass for his handling of the disaster. I was just pointing out that there is a lot of blame to be going around and a number of public officials on the local and state level who had a responsibility to their people failed at it in a huge way. Because Bush was already unpopular and he handled the disaster badly for the first few days he makes him a convenient diversion for the local and state government people to point and say they didn't have any help and that is why things went so badly.

The fact that there was clearly no contingency planning on the local and state level for an entirely predictable series of events that threatened the lives of thousands is a gross failure. FEMA didn't show up for a few days? Color me surprised that a massively bloated federal agency isn't exactly light on its toes no matter who is running it.

The National Guard can only be called out to enforce the laws of its native state upon the order of the governor of that state. It takes time to get the units together and deployed to the disaster zone (perhaps the governor should have ordered the callup earlier). From all accounts I have read, an ample number of Louisiana National Guard troops were present in the state to keep the peace in NO and surrounding areas. The President cannot order federal troops in to enforce the rule of law on American soil without running afoul of the Posse Comitatus Act (except under very limited conditions or provided an Act of Congress which was not sought by anyone).

 

[shadow9d9]

Before commenting, please watch it.. otherwise your post is pretty much meaningless.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Before commenting, please watch it.. otherwise your post is pretty much meaningless.

I've watched most of it.

Didn't see anything I didn't already know or expect.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Before commenting, please watch it.. otherwise your post is pretty much meaningless.

I've watched most of it.

Didn't see anything I didn't already know or expect.

I didn't single you out.. I'm just talking in general. I didn't watch most of it myself, although I caught some of it because my wife had it on. Just referring mostly to the people such as the first response in this thread.

You'd be surprised though at how many really don't know what's going on there still.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Before commenting, please watch it.. otherwise your post is pretty much meaningless.

By your logic:

1. People who have never been to Iraq should not be able to comment on the war.
2. People who don't personally know Bush should not be able to call him stupid
3. People who don't play in the NFL shouldn't be allowed to make Superbowl predictions

You don't have to watch it to know that Spike Lee is going to blame Bush and the federal government for a lot of the problems, all you have to do is read some of the dozens of reviews of the program going around.

The media coverage of Katrina has ranged from bad to awful since the start. Remember stories about snipers shotting at rescue copters, or people being killed and raped in the superdome right in the open etc etc

Worse of all Spike Lee said the following in October 2005 when asked about the conspiracy theory that the levees were blown up to flood poor black areas in order to save "white" areas: "it's not too far-fetched to think that, look, we got a bunch of poor black people here. We got to save these other neighborhoods. What we got to do, dump this in this ward, boom. I believe it."

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: K1052
How about responsibility for the numerous local, state, and federal administrations over the last 80 years that let this come to pass in the first place? People had been going on for years about just such a scenario. This disaster was entirely forseeable and preventable, yet each level of government flubbed it's reponsibilities and response.

Bush is just the unlucky shmoe to get stuck with the mess and his less than stellar management and communication skills have not helped him get out of it. Everyone in the various governments before him just decided to cross their fingers and hope it didn't hit while they were in office. Those at state and local level should be happy that they have Bush as a scapegoat to cover their own glaring failures as public officials.

You do mean GW's Daddy and Daddy's former Boss, now, don't ya? Or is it the Right wing majority Congress of the last (twelve?) years?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: K1052
How about responsibility for the numerous local, state, and federal administrations over the last 80 years that let this come to pass in the first place? People had been going on for years about just such a scenario. This disaster was entirely forseeable and preventable, yet each level of government flubbed it's reponsibilities and response.

Bush is just the unlucky shmoe to get stuck with the mess and his less than stellar management and communication skills have not helped him get out of it. Everyone in the various governments before him just decided to cross their fingers and hope it didn't hit while they were in office. Those at state and local level should be happy that they have Bush as a scapegoat to cover their own glaring failures as public officials.

You do mean GW's Daddy and Daddy's former Boss, now, don't ya? Or is it the Right wing majority Congress of the last (twelve?) years?

So we've had three presidents in 80 years? News to me.

Oh, that was a thinly veiled partisan swipe that has no relevance here. I see now...


Both sides get equal credit for fvcking this up IMO. I also think that the state of Louisiana should have stepped up to the plate long ago and installed the required flood protection with or without federal help.

 

[straightalker]

When the levees were blown up...