PlayStation VR requires external processing unit

[maddie]

This is interesting development. Could we see a bigger external GPU than the internal one? Additional revenue from the PS4 contract?


According to a presentation by Sony's Ram Madhavan the Unite 2015 Developer Conference in Boston, U.S., the format holder's upcoming PlayStation VR gaming headset will require an external processing unit to ensure a smooth virtual reality gaming experience for players. Madhavan said that the processing unit will perform “most of the heavy lifting for the VR itself," and noted that Sony has made the device even more powerful and aims to continue to improve the unit itself in the run up to PS VR's launch in the first quarter of 2016

http://www.psu.com/news/28540/PlayStation-VR-requires-external-processing-unit

 

[Tuna-Fish]

This is interesting development. Could we see a bigger external GPU than the internal one? Additional revenue from the PS4 contract?

There is basically no information about the VR external unit out there, but I doubt that it adds anything to the GPU. Using an external GPU would require high-bandwidth, low-latency access to it. AFAICT, the PS4 just doesn't have the kind of interface one could be plugged in and utilized well.

I think by "does the heavy lifting for VR" means monitors sensors, interprets sensor data and outputs head position and direction. Doing this right, with low latency and high accuracy, can take a surprisingly high amount of CPU power, and given the state of the CPU on PS4, having an external, special-purpose device for this might make sense.

 

[Snafuh]

In some other slides (same presentation) Sony mentioned the external processor will handle the frame reprojection and some kind of enhanced 3D sound. I can't find the slides anymore and I have no time to watch the whole presentation at the moment.
The Driveclub devs also mentioned they have to scale back the graphics to achieve 60fps for VR so I doubt the external processing unit will add any actual render power to the PS4 but rather handle any additional processing needed for VR.

 

[Pottuvoi]

In some other slides (same presentation) Sony mentioned the external processor will handle the frame reprojection and some kind of enhanced 3D sound. I can't find the slides anymore and I have no time to watch the whole presentation at the moment.
The Driveclub devs also mentioned they have to scale back the graphics to achieve 60fps for VR so I doubt the external processing unit will add any actual render power to the PS4 but rather handle any additional processing needed for VR.

Reprojection is done on Ps4 GPU and binaural aurio is done in Ps4 sound chip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RNbZpcfAhE

The external box has some small chip which handles the image splitting and de-warp to TV screen. (Ps4 has single video output and they do want it to be possible to have different image on TV.)

 

[Snafuh]

Reprojection is done on Ps4 GPU and binaural aurio is done in Ps4 sound chip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RNbZpcfAhE

The external box has some small chip which handles the image splitting and de-warp to TV screen. (Ps4 has single video output and they do want it to be possible to have different image on TV.)

Thanks a lot. I mixed some things up. Reprojection will he handled via asynchronous compute. It looks like Sony designed many aspects of the PS4 with VR in mind.

 

[maddie]

A high resolution image is necessary for the smooth projection of a 3D VR image. Besides the obvious problems with pixellation' too low a resolution will introduce rough 3D depth as the separate images are forced to map to large pixels with crude approximations as a given. This causes stereo vision to produce unfocused images.

If the released videos are representative of playstation VR gameplay, the native GPU in the PS4 is unable to achieve this.


As to the claim of the external processing as only doing small amounts of work, this report appears to contradict such claims. Having such as large case makes it likely that a more powerful processor is in the external box.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/12/16/10287734/retail-playstation-vr-box

 

[railven]

Not sure if it was mentioned in the original post, too lazy to scroll up, but Sony already said that the external unit will cost as much as the PS4. This was said while the PS4 was still $400, so I would assume it is most likely a beefy GPU versus a second entire system.

I wonder if it would be the equivalent of another 7850 (or whatever the PS4's GPU is most like) and will do some king of Crossfire like setup, or it's just a Fiji-like chip that will handle all the grunt. (I'm also assuming whatever is in there, it's AMD based).

 

[RussianSensation]

This makes sense.

"Elite Dangerous for Steam VR requires 16GB RAM, GTX 980 as a minimum"

"Oculus needs Radeon R9 290, Geforce GTX 970 or higher"

 

[n0x1ous]

Unless all the VR games are going to look like nintendo stuff I don't see how they can have a decent VR experience without more GPU power.

 

[maddie]

Not sure if it was mentioned in the original post, too lazy to scroll up, but Sony already said that the external unit will cost as much as the PS4. This was said while the PS4 was still $400, so I would assume it is most likely a beefy GPU versus a second entire system.

I wonder if it would be the equivalent of another 7850 (or whatever the PS4's GPU is most like) and will do some king of Crossfire like setup, or it's just a Fiji-like chip that will handle all the grunt. (I'm also assuming whatever is in there, it's AMD based).

That was my position in the OP, about AMD obtaining additional revenue from the contract, but only having a reasoned position could not present firm evidence. The few replies shot down my argument for a robust GPU extension.

7850 Xfire with a GPU/eye will be a bit under a 290 in processing power. I'm leaning to a more powerful GPU with the internal unit playing a support role. We can't have 30fps VR. Surefire way to destroy the technology.

Guess we'll learn more soon.

 

[NTMBK]

Unless all the VR games are going to look like nintendo stuff I don't see how they can have a decent VR experience without more GPU power.

There's a reason why Eagle Flight has such flat, stylised graphics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8GwRiTTO3o

Compare with non-VR Paris:

I don't buy that the "external unit" is some super powerful GPU. For a start, what external bus does the PS4 have which is high speed/low latency enough to handle that?

 

[maddie]

There's a reason why Eagle Flight has such flat, stylised graphics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8GwRiTTO3o

Compare with non-VR Paris:

I don't buy that the "external unit" is some super powerful GPU. For a start, what external bus does the PS4 have which is high speed/low latency enough to handle that?

Is this representative of all the demoed PS4 VR titles?

 

[Headfoot]

There is basically no information about the VR external unit out there, but I doubt that it adds anything to the GPU. Using an external GPU would require high-bandwidth, low-latency access to it. AFAICT, the PS4 just doesn't have the kind of interface one could be plugged in and utilized well.

I think by "does the heavy lifting for VR" means monitors sensors, interprets sensor data and outputs head position and direction. Doing this right, with low latency and high accuracy, can take a surprisingly high amount of CPU power, and given the state of the CPU on PS4, having an external, special-purpose device for this might make sense.

This makes the most sense as to whats in the box. Kinect had its own processors integrated into the device even though the main Xbox had to do some processing as well.

The whole concept of the consoles is fast, near, low-latency unified memory. Having another external gpu in crossfire is not going to happen. It is likely a customized set of chips to do the above as well as warping the image and maybe even interpolating images at a higher frequency to give the illusion of higher FPS than the PS4 is putting out in real frames.

 

[railven]

Is this representative of all the demoed PS4 VR titles?

I wouldn't say to that extreme level, but the ones I've seen are definitely flat in regards to "textures."

I mean, we're going back to the days of early bitmapping for some games. For others, glorified polygon games.

 

[dogen1]

Unless all the VR games are going to look like nintendo stuff I don't see how they can have a decent VR experience without more GPU power.

By "nintendo-like" do you mean low resolution? Because other than that, nintendo games look incredible.

 

[n0x1ous]

By "nintendo-like" do you mean low resolution? Because other than that, nintendo games look incredible.

Crysis 3 looks incredible on PC. Star Wars battlefront looks incredible on PC. I can appreciate the art style of Nintendo stuff but incredible wouldn't be the way I would describe the graphics

 

[dogen1]

Crysis 3 looks incredible on PC. Star Wars battlefront looks incredible on PC. I can appreciate the art style of Nintendo stuff but incredible wouldn't be the way I would describe the graphics

Maybe out of the context of the hardware it runs on and it's framerate it's not incredible, but I think Mario Kart 8 still looks quite nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bT94DXYohc

That at 1080p with some anti-aliasing wouldn't be too bad I think.

 

[bystander36]

For true stereoscopic 3D, every frame needs to be rendered twice with all the game information in use to do it. If an external device is needed for 3D, I doubt it's being done properly and I'd just pass anyway (not that I use a console).

 

[Headfoot]

Mario Kart on Wii U suffers from terrible resolution and aliasing. Any time I play it its immediately apparent. That game does not look incredible. It looks decent, and it certainly looks like its being held back by a weak GPU. My fingers twitch to go into the menu and turn the resolution up every time I play it until I remember I'm not on PC

 

[NTMBK]

Mario Kart on Wii U suffers from terrible resolution and aliasing. Any time I play it its immediately apparent. That game does not look incredible. It looks decent, and it certainly looks like its being held back by a weak GPU. My fingers twitch to go into the menu and turn the resolution up every time I play it until I remember I'm not on PC

That's honestly a little sad. How on earth do you cope when Mario Kart 64 comes out of the cupboard at Christmas?

 

[dogen1]

Mario Kart on Wii U suffers from terrible resolution and aliasing. Any time I play it its immediately apparent. That game does not look incredible. It looks decent, and it certainly looks like its being held back by a weak GPU. My fingers twitch to go into the menu and turn the resolution up every time I play it until I remember I'm not on PC

That's why I said at 1080p with some AA. I think it would be pretty good for PSVR.

And of course it's being held back. But I don't think you'll see visuals anywhere near that on pc with a 176 GFlop gpu.

 

[Pottuvoi]

For true stereoscopic 3D, every frame needs to be rendered twice with all the game information in use to do it. If an external device is needed for 3D, I doubt it's being done properly and I'd just pass anyway (not that I use a console).

On PsVR GPU renders 2 images and deforms them properly for VR, sends them to the external box.
External Box will send those images to VR-glasses, but which will also de-warp one of them and send it to TV.

It is also possible to send completely different image to TV, which allows Co-op gameplay etc.

 

[NTMBK]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-playstation-vr-external-processor-revealed

Still sounds like it's just doing image warping, including the "time-warp" interpolating up to 120Hz. It's a 36W power supply, they aren't going to shove any serious GPU in there.

 

[maddie]

14nm or 28nm?

 

[ShintaiDK]

14nm or 28nm?

28, if not 40 or 55.