Ns1
No Lifer
- Jun 17, 2001
- 55,420
- 1,600
- 126
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
- 80,287
- 17,081
- 136
Imp
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2000
- 18,828
- 184
- 106
I really can't believe they haven't ported this shit over yet. By shit, I mean the e-mail client. It's THE most sought after (complained about) item that the "people" have deemed unforgiveable.
Stock's down 15% in aftermarket... Damn, wish I had a short-trading account; it'd take a few days to set one up.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
I've been bearish on RIMM for the past 6 months. (It was actually my short pitch for equity research analyst interviews) But I'm starting to wonder if it's so cheap that there's some value here.
On the other hand I'm not sure what a potential acquirer would get for their $20+ Billion. At this point I think Microsoft can eat RIMM's lunch in the enterprise market without buying them. It might be smarter and cheaper for them to buy Nokia.
Imp
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2000
- 18,828
- 184
- 106
RIM would fit into Microsoft's corporate-side business extremely well. But what's the point? They'd be buying a seemingly dying brand, they have Mango coming, Windows 8 and Nokia.
I love my Playbook and doubt RIM's dead, but it's not going to be anywhere near as "big" as it use to be for a while.
The crazy thing is it's been like watching a slow motion car crash. I was a blackberry user for years before I bought my Droid on launch day in Nov 2009. I honestly don't understand how people who run a tech company can let themselves fall so far behind. At this point they better hope that Microsoft is too incompetent to steal the enterprise market from them because they have lost the consumer for good.
The problem is that the 3 giants, (Symbian, WinMo, and BBOS), didn't consider innovating until after the iPhone was released in 2007. Now all three are on life support except for Microsoft who had the revenue to react quickly enough with WP7, despite still being several years late.
iOS really laid the smackdown and the only one that came out a competitor was another OS that was in development just as long, Android.
I don't know much about software development but I think that's letting them off the hook too easily. Nokia spent $4 Billion developing the latest version of Symbian with nothing to show for it. BB has had 4 years since the iphone was launched. I don't think this result was the inevitable consequence of iOS and Android being launched.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 25,195
- 0
- 56
Meh, I'd post more, but am already labeled a RIMM troll.
I'm afraid, they're on their way to becoming a footnote and irrelevant...
I'm afraid, they're on their way to becoming a footnote and irrelevant...
Yeah I'm not sure where that $4B went into, funny how after such a big investment they ditched Symbian for WP7.
As for RIM, I think they relied too heavily on their established userbase in the enterprise sector and refused change. While RIM was resting with all of its eggs in one basket, Apple released another popular device, the iPad. So not only was there one 800lb gorilla, there are now two.
With the unsuccessful launch of the playbook and no innovative smartphone OS, RIM is facing a slow death, unless they do something miraculous with what little time they have left.
However, I don't think iOS could have taken out the top 3 smartphone players alone if it weren't for the collective popularity of both iOS and Android.
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
They're still making $700M a quarter in profit, and have QNX based phones coming out in early 2012. iOS has a lot of advantages right now, but Apple has to keep innovating in order to maintain their lead. Otherwise, everyone else will catch up and it won't matter who you go with really. Is a Toshiba TV really that much different than a Sony?
Well any and every company has to stay fresh in order to stay successful. What to keep in mind though is that Apple started from nothing and made 3 of the largest smartphone OSs to run for the hills.
RIM is making $700M....down from $900M and laying people off at that. Its great that RIM is releasing QNX smartphones early 2012...but the iPhone was released, 1..2...3..4 years ago. Come 2012, it'll be 5 years before RIM answered to the iPhone. RIM should have put the playbook on the back burner and focused on their smartphones first. If anything, RIM has more to be worried about than Apple does.
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
Yep, they should have done all that earlier, but now they ARE. Most of the really big innovations in the smartphone market are probably done, and the players will slowly end up resembling each other.
Apple stopped being 100% dickish with their developers, taking a page from Android.
RIM is figuring out that large touch screens and apps are the key to the consumer market, taking a page from Apple.
Apple's iMessage is copying BBM.
They all do essentially the same thing, and will continue to get closer and closer to each other as time goes on.
Tristicus
Diamond Member
From the Playbook logo, swipe up. So you actually put your finger off screen to do it. Couldn't figure it out either, had to be shown. Pretty stupid they don't tell you or make it similar to other OSs.
My thoughts on RIM's situation are painfully simple.
It's not that they sat on their asses and purposely didn't innovate, well, sort of but not for obvious reasons. iOS and Android came on and yeah, they were nicer, had more features etc. It's not because RIM doesn't or can't bring on the talent either.
My guess? They listened to their customers. They went out to their enterprise base and said, "Look, we see the iPhone and Android devices, they have strong new features, what do you want to see from us?" The enterprise customer naturally says, "Nothing! We won't sacrifice the secure email platform that we know for shiny features." RIM listened, and did very little.
The problem is, the customer is not in the business of mobile secure email. RIM is. They needed to innovate, put the features in front of the customer, and say, "By the way, email is still as secure as it ever was and we're not raising the price on you, either."
It's not the customer's job to think up another company's new ideas. Yes, the voice of the customer is extremely important, but it has to be parsed accurately. When the customer says they wouldn't change anything, they mean they don't want to sacrifice what they know and trust. That doesn't mean a modern browser, current form factor devices, broad app support, etc cannot be introduced. It means do it and allow the corp sysadmin to stay in control, like BB always has.
That's my guess. I've spent enough time both in house and as a consultant, admittedly not in this industry, to see the symptoms of VOC paralysis.
It's not that they sat on their asses and purposely didn't innovate, well, sort of but not for obvious reasons. iOS and Android came on and yeah, they were nicer, had more features etc. It's not because RIM doesn't or can't bring on the talent either.
My guess? They listened to their customers. They went out to their enterprise base and said, "Look, we see the iPhone and Android devices, they have strong new features, what do you want to see from us?" The enterprise customer naturally says, "Nothing! We won't sacrifice the secure email platform that we know for shiny features." RIM listened, and did very little.
The problem is, the customer is not in the business of mobile secure email. RIM is. They needed to innovate, put the features in front of the customer, and say, "By the way, email is still as secure as it ever was and we're not raising the price on you, either."
It's not the customer's job to think up another company's new ideas. Yes, the voice of the customer is extremely important, but it has to be parsed accurately. When the customer says they wouldn't change anything, they mean they don't want to sacrifice what they know and trust. That doesn't mean a modern browser, current form factor devices, broad app support, etc cannot be introduced. It means do it and allow the corp sysadmin to stay in control, like BB always has.
That's my guess. I've spent enough time both in house and as a consultant, admittedly not in this industry, to see the symptoms of VOC paralysis.
There is someone on my local cl with a 32 gig who will let it go for 400. i thought about buying to resell but dont want to get stuck with it
Two more thoughts:
1. RIM, barring some serious mismanagement, has to be considering becoming a software company. Sell the email experience for other OSes. I haven't actually looked at their financials to see if this is even sustainable for them, or if the hardware business is required to stay alive.
2. Microsoft should buy RIM now, or possibly yesterday. Windows Mobile/Phone was already a sufficiently large player in the mobile corporate email segment, but integrating BES with Exchange and BB Mail on the WP platform would really be something that makes a lot of sense. A huge chunk of the large and mid-size corporate markets use Exchange, a large subset probably license BB technology in some way, and it would be a natural shift to the WP platform as long as they can preserve the experience. They could probably charge a premium for all of this since there'd be no real competitor in the corporate market, at least not with an end-to-end solution.
1. RIM, barring some serious mismanagement, has to be considering becoming a software company. Sell the email experience for other OSes. I haven't actually looked at their financials to see if this is even sustainable for them, or if the hardware business is required to stay alive.
2. Microsoft should buy RIM now, or possibly yesterday. Windows Mobile/Phone was already a sufficiently large player in the mobile corporate email segment, but integrating BES with Exchange and BB Mail on the WP platform would really be something that makes a lot of sense. A huge chunk of the large and mid-size corporate markets use Exchange, a large subset probably license BB technology in some way, and it would be a natural shift to the WP platform as long as they can preserve the experience. They could probably charge a premium for all of this since there'd be no real competitor in the corporate market, at least not with an end-to-end solution.
gsaldivar
Diamond Member
- Apr 30, 2001
- 8,691
- 1
- 81
I seem to recall business users complaining about RIM's lack of apps, lack of media support, and generally slow and lame web browsing for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.
While there certainly exists a strong tendency for enterprise to stick to "old" tech - or at least technology that is well-known, well-supported, reliable and customizable; I don't think that's a valid reason for RIM to have let their platform grow stagnant for such an extended period of time.
It's my opinion that RIM got the parsing of feedback from its customers right. RIM's management simply made the decision to hear what they wanted to hear, and to ignore the rest. RIM focused on the feedback that supported their conviction to focus on enterprise messaging.
The indicators of a revolution in the mobile phone market were there for a long time. RIM was just so confident that their huge platform investment was insurmountable by competitors, that they turned a blind eye to how fast their competition was catching up to them in the consumer market.
In my opinion, RIM has become a victim of their own managerial "groupthink". They have become over-invested and entrenched in a platform that intentionally disregards consumer-specific features in favor of enterprise-specific features such as high security, centralized management, and reliable messaging.
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