planned parenthood calls for post birth abortions-when abortion results in live birth

[fskimospy]

A guy my dad worked with did not know he had a child until the kid was grown. The mother waited 18 years to tell the guy and file for child support.

The man was in his 50s when he found out he owed 18 years back child support, totaling close to $100k.

But yet, somehow that is a fair and balanced system?

Anecdotal evidence.

What would be a fair system, is for both parents to be held responsible for caring for the child.

If the mother can drop a child off at a safe harbor, then the father should be allowed the same rights.

Both parents are equally responsible for caring for the child at all times. If a mother drops off the kid at a safe harbor, the father is not responsible for continued care either. What you are advocating for is clearly a logical impossibility the other way around, as most women tend to notice when they give birth to a child.

If a mother does not want a child but the father does and takes custody, she is every bit as liable for child support as he would be the other way around. Again, all parties share equal responsibilities at all times.

If the father is court ordered to provide health insurance and pay child support, then the mother should be court ordered to get a job and provide health care.

The system is tilted in favor of whoever has possession of the child.

That doesn't make any sense. One person is actually raising the child, the other is not. The purpose of this system is to provide the greatest care possible for the child. Period.

I fail to see how any of your solutions improve this.

 

[fskimospy]

Special privilege?

You mean the same privilege to abandon a child after its born as women have?

No, we've been over this in the past, use the search feature.

I know that you WANT special privileges, but you won't be allowed them. Equality for all!

 

[Texashiker]

That doesn't make any sense. One person is actually raising the child, the other is not. The purpose of this system is to provide the greatest care possible for the child. Period.

You are suggesting living with, and raising, are the same thing.

 

[nehalem256]

If a mother does not want a child but the father does and takes custody, she is every bit as liable for child support as he would be the other way around. Again, all parties share equal responsibilities at all times.

Except when the woman is abandoning the child without the consent of the father.

That doesn't make any sense. One person is actually raising the child, the other is not. The purpose of this system is to provide the greatest care possible for the child. Period.

*cough* Octomom *cough*

 

[fskimospy]

You are suggesting living with, and raising, are the same thing.

If you disagree, provide an economical alternative metric.

 

[WHAMPOM]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...-argues-right-post-birth-abortion_712198.html

I would call that murder.

but you know, its the mothers choice; so its cool

Thread title slightly fixed after complaints, though I think reading the article in the OP makes the context quite clear. -Admin DrPizza

Glad the MODS called you on your bullshit title. You just post for the shock value and hope no one reads the article about a moral issue you can not comprehend. Must be HELL when you can not lie like a snake. Your truth and THE TRUTH, so far apart.

 

[Texashiker]

If you disagree, provide an economical alternative metric.

This thread is not about economic responsibility.

As per the opening post, it is about how women have the right to avoid responsibility, even after the child is born.

As per the representative from planned parenthood in the linked article, the decision on what to do about a child born alive should be left to the mother, the doctor and the family.

At no time is the father or the rights of the father mentioned directly.

As per the linked article in the opening post, the representative from planned parenthood did not affirm the rights of the child, or the rights of the father.

As per the representative from planned parenthood, the only person that should have rights when an aborted child is born alive, is the mother.

My question this whole time, at what point do the rights of the child and the rights of the father come into play? Should a child that is born alive during an abortion be killed?

There was a case a few months ago about an abortion doctor that was doing late term abortions. The doctor would induce labor, then kill the child after it was born. The doctor and several nurses were convicted on murder charges. But what about the mothers? I guess they were allowed to just walk away?

 

[fskimospy]

I didn't say economic responsibility, i said economical alternative. I simply see no practical way to implement what you're asking for even if we wanted to.

This is long on complaining, short on answers.

 

[Doppel]

It is of course murder by any standard of the term. The only reason the person calling for it seems ok with it is because it is in some ways a logical conclusion of their morally bankrupt view of abortion and they have taken "women's rights" to an absurd but evolutionary conclusion.

Late term abortion is murder as well, occurring to a highly viable fetus that has a very good chance with a NICU of leading a full and complete life. I met a girl born at 25 weeks who is in her late teens (back then NICUs were not even as capable as today) and has only some emotional immaturity but otherwise fine, no indication of problems, drives, has friends etc.

 

[Texashiker]

I didn't say economic responsibility, i said economical alternative. I simply see no practical way to implement what you're asking for even if we wanted to.

This is long on complaining, short on answers.

Not an economics thread.

What is the father supposed to do when the mother gives birth, stand outside and wait to see if the woman has the baby killed post-birth?

Nurse goes outside the room after delivery and tells the father, "the mother decided not to kill the baby, you can see it now."

Or, is the nurse going to tell the father, "the mother decided to terminate the baby within the 5 minute grace period." Sorry about that, here is the bill for disposal of the body."

If doctors are immune from providing assistance to the baby during a botched abortion, what is next? Would doctors be immune from providing care during normal delivery?

From the link in the opening post, it sounds like planned parenthood wants a separate set of laws for abortion provides, a set of laws that shields the doctor and the mother from responsibility.

 

[bshole]

What strikes me as absolutely bizarre is that a woman can legally abort her child with no consequence but if somebody does it against the woman's will, they could be imprisoned for life (depending on the state). That makes absolutely NO sense to me. Either the fetus is a person or not, it's humanity is not changed by who kills it.

For example, Georgia...

A person commits the offense of feticide if he or she willfully kills an unborn child so far developed as to be ordinarily called "quick" by causing any injury to the mother of such child. The penalty for feticide is imprisonment for life.

I can understand the punishment injuring the mother, I do not understand why the punishment for killing the child is constitutional. It seems completely illogical to me. That same mother could have aborted that same child one day prior to being attacked, and the charges against the assailant would have been greatly reduced.


http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx

 

[nehalem256]

What strikes me as absolutely bizarre is that a woman can legally abort her child with no consequence but if somebody does it against the woman's will, they could be imprisoned for life (depending on the state). That makes absolutely NO sense to me. Either the fetus is a person or not, it's humanity is not changed by who kills it.

For example, Georgia... I can understand the punishment injuring the mother, I do not understand why the punishment for killing the child is constitutional. It seems completely illogical to me. That same mother could have aborted that same child one day prior to being attacked, and the charges against the assailant would have been greatly reduced.


http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx

Making feticide illegal harms men.

Making abortion illegal harms women.

Does it seem logical now?

 

[fskimospy]

What strikes me as absolutely bizarre is that a woman can legally abort her child with no consequence but if somebody does it against the woman's will, they could be imprisoned for life (depending on the state). That makes absolutely NO sense to me. Either the fetus is a person or not, it's humanity is not changed by who kills it.

For example, Georgia... I can understand the punishment injuring the mother, I do not understand why the punishment for killing the child is constitutional. It seems completely illogical to me. That same mother could have aborted that same child one day prior to being attacked, and the charges against the assailant would have been greatly reduced.


http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/health/fetal-homicide-state-laws.aspx

It is part of a push by groups to ban abortion. Their primary tack at the moment is an attempt to establish personhood for fetuses. While outlawing abortion outright is unconstitutional, they are looking for ways to chip away at it with laws like that.

 

[fskimospy]

Not an economics thread.

What is the father supposed to do when the mother gives birth, stand outside and wait to see if the woman has the baby killed post-birth?

Nurse goes outside the room after delivery and tells the father, "the mother decided not to kill the baby, you can see it now."

Or, is the nurse going to tell the father, "the mother decided to terminate the baby within the 5 minute grace period." Sorry about that, here is the bill for disposal of the body."

If doctors are immune from providing assistance to the baby during a botched abortion, what is next? Would doctors be immune from providing care during normal delivery?

From the link in the opening post, it sounds like planned parenthood wants a separate set of laws for abortion provides, a set of laws that shields the doctor and the mother from responsibility.

I didn't say economics, I said economical. If you don't have a feasible way to address what you're complaining about, your complaint doesn't mean much.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I don't agree with abortion, but honestly, I don't think that woman understood what she was insinuating. I'm really not sure how anyone could legitimately support killing a person after live birth. Doctors should be obligated to help these kids stay alive. If it is determined that they are brain dead, then the family has the same choices as with a brain dead adult.

 

[rudder]

Free Lindsey!!!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...in-prison-in-newborn-twins-smothering-deaths/

Life in prison for performing and after birth abortion.

Is this what people really want?

 

[michal1980]

Free Lindsey!!!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...in-prison-in-newborn-twins-smothering-deaths/

Life in prison for performing and after birth abortion.

Is this what people really want?

i'd support hanging her before freeing her.

 

[Texashiker]

Free Lindsey!!!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...in-prison-in-newborn-twins-smothering-deaths/

Life in prison for performing and after birth abortion.

Is this what people really want?

According to the lady in the opening post, the decision to keep the babies alive should be left to the mother.

I think we can all pretty much agree that the right to life starts when the fetus can live outside the womb. And especially when the child is born.

Regardless if the child is born in an abortion clinic, bathroom, hospital, backseat of a car,,, shouldn't all children receive equal protection under the law?

 

[nehalem256]

Free Lindsey!!!

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...in-prison-in-newborn-twins-smothering-deaths/

Life in prison for performing and after birth abortion.

Is this what people really want?

No. Instead they want the woman to dump the baby at a hospital without informing the father.

Apparently expecting women to be responsible for their even after birth is too much.