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Pistons Versus Lakers in the NBA Finals

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I thought the Pistons honestly had the best shot of winning this series, mainly b/c they have the big bodies to throw at Shaq. Many analysts thought that Shaq would dominate Big Ben, and that was the farthest thing from the truth. U muscle him down with guys who can at least contest the shot, make up for size with speed, and that's what you have in Big Ben, Sheed, and the Pistons. The reason the Spurs didn't win is b/c TD is not as good defensively as Wallace, it's blatantly apparent now. Combine the shutdown of Shaq with Detroits unstoppable guards/LA's paltry defense on them, and here we are. Also add to the mix a quick 6-9 shotblocker with the wingspan of a teradactyl on Kobe, who's only 6-6, and he's shut down as well. With Karl Malone on his last leg and getting limited playing time, you can stick a fork in the overcooked, overhyped LA Lakers. The end of a dynasty is ***OFFICIAL AND CONFIRMED***. LA had no competition for their 3 W's. Good to finally see them played competitively, and get smacked down to the chagrin of all the LA fanboys here.
 
Originally posted by: edmicman
the best part of games being in detroit is they actually show the game instead of spending 2/3 of the time showing jack nicholson or all the other "stars" in the audience. still wish they'd show more replays of when the lakers get their asses handed to them - that elden dunk was sick!

the worst part of the game is that they still insist on talking about the Lakers a majority of the time. did you see the halftime show? they didn't have one piece on any Piston player. during the game, the Pistons are up and dominating they game, yet they zoom in on Malone's knee a thousand times.
 
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: edmicman
the best part of games being in detroit is they actually show the game instead of spending 2/3 of the time showing jack nicholson or all the other "stars" in the audience. still wish they'd show more replays of when the lakers get their asses handed to them - that elden dunk was sick!
the worst part of the game is that they still insist on talking about the Lakers a majority of the time. did you see the halftime show? they didn't have one piece on any Piston player. during the game, the Pistons are up and dominating they game, yet they zoom in on Malone's knee a thousand times.
Yes, ABC has been all out terrible.

GO 'TONS!
 
I would like the Pistons' chances even more if the format was 2-2-1-1-1. No home team has ever won Game 3, 4, and 5 in the 2-3-2 Finals. It's a tall order to sweep those 3 games from a team that was good enough to advance past the top teams in their conference and had a better record than you during the regular season, while dealing with NBA refs who are very aware of situations and stats. It's highly likely that Detroit will lose a game at home, and it's probably going to be Sunday.

Phil Jackson will be bitching non-stop for the next 2 days about the foul disparity that his timid little team experienced last night, and he will get calls in Game 4, disproportionate to what a road team normally "deserves" in the NBA. He'll have the Lakers going very aggresively to the rim and cutting off of a lot of screens in order to get free and benefit from the overcompensation of calls they're going to get. File that song & dance under the "Top 10 Things about NBA Basketball that make me want to PUKE"

Larry Brown has to know this is coming and that the Lakers will show up with their heads out of their asses for a change, it will be interesting to see what he comes up with and if he can help his team survive the onslaught. I thought it was simple yet brutally effective the way they took it right to Walton and eliminated that nuisance last night. It will probably come down to Shaq again, if the Lakers don't feed him the ball on nearly every possession Sunday and try to get him to the line 15-20+ times and bench the Wallaces with foul trouble, they are absolute fools. Payton also seems due for some kind of meaningful contribution, something other than sleepwalking through a couple quarters and viewing the stretch run from the bench.

I still think Detroit has a good chance in the series. They seem well equipped to deal with the 4th quarter runs, with their ability to clamp down on defense and generate timely perimeter offense with Billups/Hamilton/Prince. They're a tough team, I was impressed by the way they survived that war with the Pacers. Plus there's Malone's injury. There is essentially nothing behind him on the bench. His mobility is limited and he can't even jump, several times he's resorted to tapping out rebounds that he had inside position on. He means a lot more to the team than the 4th quarter L.A. fanboys realize, I think S.A. and Minnesota would have won those series without Malone there to harass and swat at the opponents' MVPs and free up Shaq to patrol the paint defensively.
 
Originally posted by: Nitemare
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: Excelsior
Originally posted by: Munchies
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: Lyfer
BTW whos got home court advantage, LA or Detroit?

LA

No

Actually, yes, LA does have homecourt advantage.

they started with it, but right now Detroit has homecourt advantage. Detroit has a chance to play the winning game on their home court.

1: @LA Detroit wins
2: @LA LA wins
3: @DET Detroit wins
4: @DET
5: @DET <----possible winning game

Dude..LA has homecourt advantage, there is no way around that. Just because they are at Detroit for 3 straight games doesnt mean Detroit now has homecourt advantage, just that all 3 games out of the 7 possible that they get are in a row. The lakers will most likely take a game at Detroit, then they have the upperhand, however, Detroit has proven they can play at LA.

You do realize that your definition of homecourt advantage differs from 99.9% of all people, no?

Uhh..I didn't know it did. I thought everyone knew what homecourt advantage was. Obviously we have two definitions here: one being the actual advantage of having these 3 games in a row at Detroit, the other being the actual homecourt advantage.

Believe it or not, having the first two and last two, if needed, benefit that team. However in this case, Detroit has done better than what many people expected therefore it doesn't really matter that LA has the first and last 2.
 
Homecourt advantage means you do not have to win a remaining game on the road to win the series. It can change during a series.
 
Originally posted by: TheBDB
Homecourt advantage means you do not have to win a remaining game on the road to win the series. It can change during a series.

If that were the definition, no one could have the home court advantage prior to the first game.

At this time, it can be said, Detroit has the home-court advantage for the remainder of the series because they can win it at home by virtue of the win in LA. This remaining games advantage would revert back L.A. if they win a game in Detroit.

However, L.A. received home-court advantage for the entire series by virtue of their regular season record, that cannot change.
 
Originally posted by: ZOXXO
Originally posted by: TheBDB
Homecourt advantage means you do not have to win a remaining game on the road to win the series. It can change during a series.

If that were the definition, no one could have the home court advantage prior to the first game.

At this time, it can be said, Detroit has the home-court advantage for the remainder of the series because they can win it at home by virtue of the win in LA. This remaining games advantage would revert back L.A. if they win a game in Detroit.

However, L.A. received home-court advantage for the entire series by virtue of their regular season record, that cannot change.

Not sure what you are going for here...prior to the first game, the team that has more games at home has the "home court advantage" because if they win all of their home games then they win the series regardless. As soon as Detroit won in LA, the had home court advantage, because if they win out in Detroit they win the series. If LA wins tonight, then the once more have the advantage, because that will give them 2 wins, so winning the remaining 2 at home would give them the series.

Smithers
 
Looks like the Lakers are getting desperate. Per an article in the L.A. Times, the original Lakers confronted Phil Jackson and pleaded to bench Payton and Malone. Who would have thought that the Pistons would send the Lakers into such desperation:

Change of the Season?
Veterans of title teams ask Jackson in private meeting to use them together

By Tim Brown, Times Staff Writer

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. ? Phil Jackson stood in a dingy bathroom at the Palace, the Lakers in three games of the NBA Finals fortunate to win one, and he listened to the proposal that could change the course of a season, perhaps a career.

Before him, the five Lakers who remained from their three championships together ? Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant, Rick Fox, Derek Fisher and Devean George ? asked for their season back.

Their plea: Bench an ailing Karl Malone, bench an ineffective Gary Payton and play those five together in tonight's Game 4 against the Detroit Pistons, Fox at power forward, Fisher at point guard.

Fifteen rings among them and their next title hopes fading against the relentless Pistons, they had summoned Jackson away from their teammates, away from the glare of the Finals, and outlined their plan. O'Neal stood beside Bryant, the two of them apparently in agreement.

When they were done, Jackson told them he would think about it. Then, in a team meeting before the Lakers practiced on Saturday afternoon, Jackson told the rest of the Lakers about the meeting and what he was considering.

An hour later, Jackson leaned against a cinder-block wall and recounted the bathroom stall summit. His offense fractured by the Piston defense, the Lakers had scored 68 points in Game 3, the triangle burdened by injury and misreads. Payton appeared more disconnected than ever and Malone was hampered by another knee ligament injury.

The answer, Jackson was reminded, might be to reach back to the three-peat, to summon the players and the execution that made them champions before. And Jackson said maybe.

"They harassed me, took me in the toilet to have a private conference," he said. "They're asking for more of an opportunity to perform the wizardry of the triangle under the auspices of their talent. They're afraid guys don't have the kind of experience with it to operate under this kind of pressure."

Jackson and his coaching staff had made dramatic changes to the offense in earlier series against the San Antonio Spurs and Minnesota Timberwolves. They initiated the offense more through pick-and-rolls, giving triangle rookies Payton and Malone roles that were more familiar.

The Pistons have stopped nearly everything, however. Bryant scored off some pick-and-rolls in overtime of Game 2, but outside of that the Lakers often have looked old and slow, or indecisive. In a 20-point Game 3 loss, Bryant often appeared frustrated by his teammates' offensive decisions, the ball coming to him in double-teams and moving away from him when he'd posted the smaller Lindsey Hunter.

Now, with the series in jeopardy, they've asked Jackson for a chance.

"I said I'd consider it," Jackson said. "I think it puts us in a deficit position for rebounding, for one thing. But I appreciate their initiative. I have to weigh the benefits of that."

Not only hasn't Fox played a lot of power forward, he hasn't played much of anything lately. A series of injuries ? first to his elbow, then his thumb and now in his neck and shoulder ? have kept him off the floor for long periods.

A lineup change, getting the five players trained in the intricacies of the offense on the court together, would necessitate Fox defending Rasheed Wallace or Ben Wallace, or at least sharing them with O'Neal. Jackson also could start Slava Medvedenko at power forward and run Fox in at small forward.

Fox said Saturday that his lack of playing time was partly a result of his recent injury and partly because Jackson simply had not called on him. Asked about playing power forward, he smiled and pointed to George.

"I'm trying to talk Devean into power forward," he said.

Fisher and Fox long have toiled on the periphery of an offense called three-sided but built around two ? O'Neal and Bryant. Except O'Neal had only 14 points in Game 3 and Bryant 11. In three games, the Lakers are averaging 80.7 points, shooting 41.4% and going to the free-throw line about 10 fewer times a game than they did in the regular season.

"We've got to start looking for execution, that's all," Fox said.

Even without the offensive lapses, Jackson said he'd have to think about Malone's role, given the injury that limits so much of what he does.

"What I've told him is we like what he's doing with Rasheed Wallace," Jackson said. "He's played him well enough so that he has not become a big factor in this series?. [But] his ability to rebound and all of those things, we do need to move forward. As he goes through the series and he improves, he has to make that call and help us out. It's a consideration."

Benching the prickly Payton, of course, could bring a new set of problems. He has been unhappy about his role almost from training camp and has seethed when Fisher played the critical minutes of fourth quarters.

At the end of a season in which the Lakers have learned to love him all over again, however, Fisher has proven himself to be at least as strong defensively as Payton and is, of course, a better jump shooter. He also knows the offense, having run it among the superstars for five years.

"I've definitely shown up before and even at times in this postseason," Fisher said. "If we execute properly, that third or fourth [scorer] just kind of automatically appears?. When you're playing against a good defensive team, then you have to be willing to sustain your offensive execution even more and we failed to do that."

So, they've asked for more. If they lose, they'll have lost at their own game. If not, then they'll have done it again, together again.

So Jackson went to bed Saturday night weighing one of the crucial decisions in a coaching career that has brought thousands of them, and nine NBA championships, and could end with one final choice, either way.

(i posted the whole article, because they make you register to read it)
 
Originally posted by: iamme
Looks like the Lakers are getting desperate. Per an article in the L.A. Times, the original Lakers confronted Phil Jackson and pleaded to bench Payton and Malone. Who would have thought that the Pistons would send the Lakers into such desperation:


(i posted the whole article, because they make you register to read it)

Wow, thats interesting. Benching Malone seems obvious because of his injuries, but didn't payton sign a 2 year contract? He'll be damn pissed if he gets benched, but a ring might make him feel a little better. If they lose it with him benched though, they'll never hear the end of it.

Lets see what happens.
 
this is definitely a game that the Lakers can steal. the pistons lost game 4's against NJ and Indiana. the pistons need to play like they are down in the series, and come out swinging.

the Lakers seem desperate and will do anything they can to get a win. i can forsee Payton on the bench and Fisher starting. Fisher is an much better scoring threat than Payton and Billups will have to watch out. Unless the Lakers put Kobe on Billups. That'll mean Fisher checks Rip and i think that's a mismatch. Fisher is too short and Rip will shoot right over the top of him.

in order for the Lakers to win, they need to rebound the basketball. with Malone hurt, the Lakers could get destroyed on the boards (like game 3) and lose.
 
Originally posted by: iamme
this is definitely a game that the Lakers can steal. the pistons lost game 4's against NJ and Indiana. the pistons need to play like they are down in the series, and come out swinging.....
The Pistons have looked sloppy when they get ahead in a series.
 
rebounding has definetely been the deciding factor in the series and im very concerned about malone's injury. the lakers are already down a big man with grant not even making the playoff roster due to injury. smart money is still on the lakers though.
 
Originally posted by: SP33Demon
I thought the Pistons honestly had the best shot of winning this series, mainly b/c they have the big bodies to throw at Shaq. Many analysts thought that Shaq would dominate Big Ben, and that was the farthest thing from the truth. U muscle him down with guys who can at least contest the shot, make up for size with speed, and that's what you have in Big Ben, Sheed, and the Pistons. The reason the Spurs didn't win is b/c TD is not as good defensively as Wallace, it's blatantly apparent now. Combine the shutdown of Shaq with Detroits unstoppable guards/LA's paltry defense on them, and here we are. Also add to the mix a quick 6-9 shotblocker with the wingspan of a teradactyl on Kobe, who's only 6-6, and he's shut down as well. With Karl Malone on his last leg and getting limited playing time, you can stick a fork in the overcooked, overhyped LA Lakers. The end of a dynasty is ***OFFICIAL AND CONFIRMED***. LA had no competition for their 3 W's. Good to finally see them played competitively, and get smacked down to the chagrin of all the LA fanboys here.

Daaaaaamn man. I couldn't have said it any better.

I thought I was the only one who knew the lakers were not going to win this series. I knew they would come in cocky and thinking they could walk right through this. Not happening!!!

I predict 87-81 Detroit win tonight. LA will play better today ( hard to play any worse ).
 
Originally posted by: iamme
Originally posted by: edmicman
the best part of games being in detroit is they actually show the game instead of spending 2/3 of the time showing jack nicholson or all the other "stars" in the audience. still wish they'd show more replays of when the lakers get their asses handed to them - that elden dunk was sick!

the worst part of the game is that they still insist on talking about the Lakers a majority of the time. did you see the halftime show? they didn't have one piece on any Piston player. during the game, the Pistons are up and dominating they game, yet they zoom in on Malone's knee a thousand times.

I know right!!!! I mean Detroit has dominated this series and should be up 3-0 going for the sweep tonight. Yet we get no respect.

We'll get respect next year when we repeat tho.
 
Originally posted by: Squisher
Originally posted by: iamme
this is definitely a game that the Lakers can steal. the pistons lost game 4's against NJ and Indiana. the pistons need to play like they are down in the series, and come out swinging.....
The Pistons have looked sloppy when they get ahead in a series.

true, but I think they look sooo much more focused now in the Finals. Except for that 40sec lapse they had in Game 2 which really pi$$ed me off.

I remember Kobe after winning the Minnesota series, Michelle Tafoya asked him who he'd rather face Detroit or Indiana and Kobe's exact words were " Don't matter, Bring'em on. "

The lakers are just overrated punks and they must lose tonight. They deserve to be swept for their pathetic attempt to compete with Detroit.
 
Originally posted by: MrSmithers
Originally posted by: ZOXXO
Originally posted by: TheBDB
Homecourt advantage means you do not have to win a remaining game on the road to win the series. It can change during a series.

If that were the definition, no one could have the home court advantage prior to the first game.

At this time, it can be said, Detroit has the home-court advantage for the remainder of the series because they can win it at home by virtue of the win in LA. This remaining games advantage would revert back L.A. if they win a game in Detroit.

However, L.A. received home-court advantage for the entire series by virtue of their regular season record, that cannot change.

Not sure what you are going for here...prior to the first game, the team that has more games at home has the "home court advantage" because if they win all of their home games then they win the series regardless. As soon as Detroit won in LA, the had home court advantage, because if they win out in Detroit they win the series. If LA wins tonight, then the once more have the advantage, because that will give them 2 wins, so winning the remaining 2 at home would give them the series.

Smithers

My only point is, the Lakers were given(earned) home-court advantage in this series.

This does not change, regardless of the outcome of individual games.
 
Originally posted by: ZOXXO
Originally posted by: MrSmithers
Originally posted by: ZOXXO
Originally posted by: TheBDB
Homecourt advantage means you do not have to win a remaining game on the road to win the series. It can change during a series.

If that were the definition, no one could have the home court advantage prior to the first game.

At this time, it can be said, Detroit has the home-court advantage for the remainder of the series because they can win it at home by virtue of the win in LA. This remaining games advantage would revert back L.A. if they win a game in Detroit.

However, L.A. received home-court advantage for the entire series by virtue of their regular season record, that cannot change.

Not sure what you are going for here...prior to the first game, the team that has more games at home has the "home court advantage" because if they win all of their home games then they win the series regardless. As soon as Detroit won in LA, the had home court advantage, because if they win out in Detroit they win the series. If LA wins tonight, then the once more have the advantage, because that will give them 2 wins, so winning the remaining 2 at home would give them the series.

Smithers

My only point is, the Lakers were given(earned) home-court advantage in this series.

This does not change, regardless of the outcome of individual games.

I guess people have different definitions....
 
TheBDB, I believe this tangent of the thread is just a discussion of semantics.

I think we all can agree that the Lakers were awarded home-court advantage for the series.

The point of contention is whether or not, the advantage can shift during the series.

I would say the advantage can shift for the remainder of the series but history will record the series as being one in which the Lakers had the home-court advantage even though they lost it at one point.

Fair enough?:beer:
 
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