Photoshop vs Gimp

[Malak]

Anyone use both? I recently started using Gimp, having been a long time PS user. Everyone always told me it was a suitable, free, equivalent to PS, so I figured I'd check it out.

There are some very obvious issues I had with it right from the start, but overall it does seem capable. The major problems I've had were how it was broken into multiple frames instead of one frame with multiple windows. This makes multi-tasking a nightmare. The other problem was lack of creating basic shapes. Comments on this have been that Gimp is better at modifying images, not creating them. My primary work is creation, not modification, but even so this is pretty stupid IMO. Even MSPaint can make basic shapes.

Thoughts?

 

[igowerf]

Originally posted by: Malak
There are some very obvious issues I had with it right from the start, but overall it does seem capable. The major problems I've had were how it was broken into multiple frames instead of one frame with multiple windows. This makes multi-tasking a nightmare.

Are you talking about how PS uses MDI?

I've actually started to dislike how Photoshop on Windows uses the MDI style. I work on two monitors, but since opened images are child windows, their placement is limited to the parent Photoshop window, which is usually just maximized to one screen. If I want to compare two images (one on each screen), I have to manually resize the PS parent window across my second monitor. If I hit the maximize button though, PS resizes itself to fit only one monitor again.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: igowerf

Are you talking about how PS uses MDI?

I've actually started to dislike how Photoshop on Windows uses the MDI style. I work on two monitors, but since opened images are child windows, their placement is limited to the parent Photoshop window, which is usually just maximized to one screen. If I want to compare two images (one on each screen), I have to manually resize the PS parent window across my second monitor. If I hit the maximize button though, PS resizes itself to fit only one monitor again.

I prefer MDI's because I tend to multi-task. I can see how Gimp's interface may suit your needs, but how many programs don't use MDI's? At least in Windows, that is. It's a backwards way of doing things and is counterproductive to my needs.

 

[n0cmonkey]

I think it's a fine replacement, if you don't have the couple hundred dollars it takes to get PS.

GIMP isn't a Windows program, so that might be one reason you're seeing some differences in the interface.

 

[igowerf]

Originally posted by: Malak

Originally posted by: igowerf

Are you talking about how PS uses MDI?

I've actually started to dislike how Photoshop on Windows uses the MDI style. I work on two monitors, but since opened images are child windows, their placement is limited to the parent Photoshop window, which is usually just maximized to one screen. If I want to compare two images (one on each screen), I have to manually resize the PS parent window across my second monitor. If I hit the maximize button though, PS resizes itself to fit only one monitor again.

I prefer MDI's because I tend to multi-task. I can see how Gimp's interface may suit your needs, but how many programs don't use MDI's? At least in Windows, that is. It's a backwards way of doing things and is counterproductive to my needs.

You're right about GIMP being harder to use with the Windows taskbar. I've been using both OS X and Windows lately and there are elements of each operating system that I like. Unfortunately, they probably wouldn't work well together.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
I think it's a fine replacement, if you don't have the couple hundred dollars it takes to get PS.

GIMP isn't a Windows program, so that might be one reason you're seeing some differences in the interface.

It wouldn't be a problem if I just used my multiple desktops, but I'd have to find out what the hotkey is to switch desktops first. That would make multitasking easier with programs like Gimp. The only thing holding me back is the fact that I've never seen another program that worked like that for Windows.

 

[PrayForDeath]

I heard GIMP can edit GIF files which photoshop can't.

 

[Nothinman]

but how many programs don't use MDI's?

I don't use Windows very much any more, but as I remember it very few programs were MDI. Look at Office, I believe 2000, XP and 2003 all open new windows for each document that you open. MSPaint won't let you open more than one doc at a time, you have to start multiple instances of it. IE is obviously non-MDI. VS.Net is MDI and it's a PITA to compare source files.

 

[igowerf]

Originally posted by: PrayForDeath
I heard GIMP can edit GIF files which photoshop can't.

I haven't used GIMP for a while now, but it should be the other way around. Photoshop can definitely edit GIF files. GIMP can't because of licensing issues.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

but how many programs don't use MDI's?

I don't use Windows very much any more, but as I remember it very few programs were MDI. Look at Office, I believe 2000, XP and 2003 all open new windows for each document that you open. MSPaint won't let you open more than one doc at a time, you have to start multiple instances of it. IE is obviously non-MDI. VS.Net is MDI and it's a PITA to compare source files.

I don't use any of those, I use alternatives that are MDI. I prefer it that way.

 

[Nothinman]

What are they? Because the only apps I can think of that are MDI are mIRC (crap), Photoshop and VS.Net.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
What are they? Because the only apps I can think of that are MDI are mIRC (crap), Photoshop and VS.Net.

Well for example instead of IE I use Opera. All browses are in seperate tabs within the same frame.

Office 2k is MDI, Office 2k3 is different. I think it's still technically MDI, but you have taskbar items for each document. They are still all accessible within the single frame, aren't they? I believe there's a way to code MDI windows to have their own taskbar item, although I haven't tried that myself. I think I'll look into that tomorrow.

In both programming and graphic design, the only reason I can see going a route other than MDI being useful would be in the case of multiple displays, which I do not do. Then again, nothing I do has required it either.

 

[theAnimal]

Originally posted by: Malak
The major problems I've had were how it was broken into multiple frames instead of one frame with multiple windows. This makes multi-tasking a nightmare.

Thoughts?

Try this plugin.

Edit:

You may also want to check out GIMPshop.

 

[Nothinman]

Well for example instead of IE I use Opera. All browses are in seperate tabs within the same frame.

I absolutely hate Opera's UI. I messed with the 9.0 beta recently and it's still annoying to me.

Office 2k is MDI, Office 2k3 is different. I think it's still technically MDI, but you have taskbar items for each document. They are still all accessible within the single frame, aren't they? I believe there's a way to code MDI windows to have their own taskbar item, although I haven't tried that myself. I think I'll look into that tomorrow.

I don't have Win2K to look at, but I do have XP on my work machine and it's definitely not MDI. Each document gets it's own taskbar item and it's own full window. What would be the point of having it's own taskbar item if it's trapped inside a parent window with it's own taskbar item?

In both programming and graphic design, the only reason I can see going a route other than MDI being useful would be in the case of multiple displays, which I do not do. Then again, nothing I do has required it either.

I don't have multiple displays but I do have multiple desktops and I can't stand windows being trapped within a parent window for no reason.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Well for example instead of IE I use Opera. All browses are in seperate tabs within the same frame.

I absolutely hate Opera's UI. I messed with the 9.0 beta recently and it's still annoying to me.

Everything hides away, easy to access every feature, maximum space for viewing my webpages... what's not to like?

I don't have multiple displays but I do have multiple desktops and I can't stand windows being trapped within a parent window for no reason.

Again, if the window is maximized then how is it a problem to use MDI? Not using MDI is a problem if you work at lower resolutions, as things can overlap hiding what you need to see. What resolution do you work in? I do have multiple desktops too, but I still would prefer one frame.

 

[Nothinman]

Everything hides away, easy to access every feature, maximum space for viewing my webpages... what's not to like?

Mainly the fact that on Linux the UI is done in QT, but even on Windows it just doesn't feel right.

Again, if the window is maximized then how is it a problem to use MDI?

I don't maximize anything, it's a waste of space.

What resolution do you work in? I do have multiple desktops too, but I still would prefer one frame.

1600x1200 as much as possible, 1600x1050 on my notebook.

 

[Malak]

If you have multiple desktops, how is it a waste of space? Throw the item into the 2nd or 3rd desktop, maximize for maximum workspace, then keep your primary window for normal work. Can't see why/how you'd be using up all your desktops, I don't even use the other 3.

 

[Nothinman]

On this machine I have 8 desktops with things currently open on 6 and 4 of them have multiple windows on them.

 

[Malak]

Why would you have so many things open and active? I would go nuts. I never run anything I'm not using, everything I have is minimalistic. I hate things being that messy.

 

[Nothinman]

It's not messy at all, things are organized on their appropriate desktop and I jump around in them with Alt+F# just as Windows users have gotten used to using Alt+TAB. Hell and on top of all of the GUI things on those desktops on desktop 0 I have an xterm running screen with 15 windows inside of it.

I still can't see why someone would like the artificial limitations that MDI creates imposed on them.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
It's not messy at all, things are organized on their appropriate desktop and I jump around in them with Alt+F# just as Windows users have gotten used to using Alt+TAB. Hell and on top of all of the GUI things on those desktops on desktop 0 I have an xterm running screen with 15 windows inside of it.

I still can't see why someone would like the artificial limitations that MDI creates imposed on them.

I see lack of MDI the limitation here. It's more difficult to multitask without MDI, as I have to click on every item in the taskbar just to get the whole program up, which for Gimp is 4 items. That's just not acceptable. You can't alt-tab to the program, you have to open them all.

Since probably 99% of windows users don't even have multiple desktops like me, this makes it a poor UI decision for windows users.

Furthermore, there is zero limitation by using MDI. I can put my windows anywhere on the screen, just like you.

Oh and office has got to use MDI's, I can't see any other way they'd handle comparing two spreadsheets in Excell if it didn't.

 

[Nothinman]

I see lack of MDI the limitation here. It's more difficult to multitask without MDI, as I have to click on every item in the taskbar just to get the whole program up, which for Gimp is 4 items. That's just not acceptable. You can't alt-tab to the program, you have to open them all.

That's something that multiple desktops easily fixes, I put gimp on desktop 2 and it stays there so I never need to restore all of it's Windows. Yes, when I run The Gimp on Windows it's annoying, but on Linux it works just fine. If there was a decent multiple desktop manager for Windows it would probably just as well there.

Since probably 99% of windows users don't even have multiple desktops like me, this makes it a poor UI decision for windows users.

I don't disagree, but The Gimp and Photoshop are special cases for which MDI works alright for the most part. But I still feel overly restricted when I open more than one image inside of Photoshop because I can't move one of them outside the parent window.

Furthermore, there is zero limitation by using MDI. I can put my windows anywhere on the screen, just like you.

No, you can't. Please prove me wrong and post a screenshost of an image opened in Photoshop but outside of the parent window.

Oh and office has got to use MDI's, I can't see any other way they'd handle comparing two spreadsheets in Excell if it didn't.

I know for a fact that Office XP and 2003 do not use MDI, for every document you open you get a completely new Window for it. I'm 90% sure that Office 2K was the same way, but I'm not sure about older revisions.

 

[Malak]

Try out Litestep, that's the shell I use. It supports 4 desktops. I'll have to use the other desktops for any applications similar to Gimp, although it's the only one I actually use like that.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Furthermore, there is zero limitation by using MDI. I can put my windows anywhere on the screen, just like you.

No, you can't. Please prove me wrong and post a screenshost of an image opened in Photoshop but outside of the parent window.

My parent window is maximized, there is no where "outside" to put my image. I always maximize PS, it'd be stupid not to

Oh and office has got to use MDI's, I can't see any other way they'd handle comparing two spreadsheets in Excell if it didn't.

I know for a fact that Office XP and 2003 do not use MDI, for every document you open you get a completely new Window for it. I'm 90% sure that Office 2K was the same way, but I'm not sure about older revisions.

Well we use both at work and I know 2k isn't the same as XP. However, I also know that in XP Excell I could view 2 spreadsheets under the same frame, which lead me to believe the taskbar item was an illusion to working outside the box.

 

[Nothinman]

Try out Litestep, that's the shell I use. It supports 4 desktops. I'll have to use the other desktops for any applications similar to Gimp, although it's the only one I actually use like that.

If that was meant for me, I would if I cared but I don't use Windows enough to put forth the effort any more. Pretty much all I use it for is to read email at work.

My parent window is maximized, there is no where "outside" to put my image. I always maximize PS, it'd be stupid not to

But AFAIK you can't put windows over top of the tool palettes so that takes some realestate and if you do have multiple monitors, which I would guess that many graphic artists do, you can't put different images on each monitor without starting multiple instances of PS.

Well we use both at work and I know 2k isn't the same as XP. However, I also know that in XP Excell I could view 2 spreadsheets under the same frame, which lead me to believe the taskbar item was an illusion to working outside the box.

I never noticed because my Excel usage is limited to sorting of CSV files that my own scripts produce. But I just verified that in Excel XP you are right, it is an illusion and the Windows are technically slaves trapped inside the larger MDI parent. But for Word it is not true. PowerPoint is also MDI as is Access, but in Access you can only have 1 database open at a time so it's not really an issue. And of course Outlook is obviously not MDI. All I can do is laugh, this is just one more testament to Microsoft's great dedication to consistency and to their own UI guidelines.