philly transit union workers go on strike...

Jul 10, 2007
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another reason why i hate unions.
crippling an entire city because they want higher than normal raises (isn't the norm 2-3% annually?), pay only 1% for health care, and increase in pension?

do they not know the state of the economy? the cost of health care rising?
when the MTA runs into deficit, they'll raise fares just to pay these greedy sons of bitches.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33599312/ns/us_news-life/

PHILADELPHIA - The Philadelphia transit system's largest union went on strike early Tuesday, stalling the city's bus, subway and trolley operations a day after the World Series shifted to New York and forcing commuters to scramble to find other ways to get to their destinations.

The strike by Transport Workers Union Local 234 will all but cripple a transit system that averages more than 928,000 trips each weekday. The union represents more than 5,000 drivers, operators and mechanics of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority.

"There will be people waking up this morning needing to commute into work. And unfortunately, there's not going to be service for them," said SEPTA spokeswoman Jerri Williams.
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The union had threatened to go on strike during the World Series. But over the weekend Gov. Ed Rendell ordered the union and SEPTA to remain at the bargaining table or risk consequences.

Willie Brown, the local's president, said they decided to strike after both sides agreed that they had gone as far as they could in negotiations. The announcement came just hours after the Phillies beat the Yankees in Game 5 of the World Series, the last game to be played at Citizens Bank Park. Brown said the strike was effective as of 3 a.m. Tuesday.

The doors to subway stations were gated off Tuesday and no buses crawled the streets in the city's downtown corridor. Commuters trying to get to work said they had to make last-minute accommodations when they awoke to word of a strike.

"We don't deserve to wake up at 3 o'clock in the morning to find out if there's a strike," said Jeffrey Chandler, 49, who had to call a friend for a ride to SEPTA's regional rail line so he could get to his job as a hotel room attendant.

Chandler, who usually takes three buses to get to his train station, said he's not sure how he'll get home.

"I have no idea," he said.

Aisha Nnoli, a doctor from Upper Darby, had just finished a 12-hour shift at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital when she found the gates closed at her elevated train stop. When she went to the next station and saw it was also closed, she said she started realizing there might be a strike.

Eventually, she went to an information kiosk and found that she could at least get halfway home by using regional rail.

"It's an inconvenience, obviously," Nnoli said.

The Election Day strike also affects buses that serve the suburbs in Bucks, Montgomery, and Chester counties. Regional rail service was still operating, but trains were delayed as they experienced higher-than-normal crowds.

Working without contract
The two sides had postponed a scheduled Sunday night meeting. They met again Monday at Rendell's regional office in Philadelphia. SEPTA spokesman Richard Maloney said the talks ended after union negotiators walked out at around midnight.

The union membership voted Oct. 25 to authorize a strike. They have been without a contract since March.

Union workers, who earn an average $52,000 a year, are seeking an annual 4 percent wage hike and want to keep the current 1 percent contribution they make toward the cost of their health care coverage.

Maloney said SEPTA was offering an 11.5 percent wage increase over 5 years, with no raise in the first year, and increases in workers' pensions.


A 2005 SEPTA strike lasted seven days, while a 1998 transit strike lasted for 40 days.

Frank Brinkman, a union member who does electronic work on an elevated SEPTA train, was out on the picket line early Tuesday. He said he was concerned about pension issues and changes to work rules.

"We've been ready since March 15," Brinkman said of the strike. "We're in here for the long haul."

He said the union didn't want to strike, but that SEPTA gave it no choice.

"We don't want to see anybody suffer," he said. "We have to stand up for our rights."
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,968
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the obama says the economy is doing great. what about all the bazzilion saved or created jobs he's always mumbling about??
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
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Wait so 52k is a lot to you? Do you know how much a commercail driver can make in the private sector, or a heavy machines mechanic, etc...

The benifits are one of the reasons people take the lower pay yet 4% is to much for you?
 

seepy83

Platinum Member
Nov 12, 2003
2,132
3
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another reason why i hate unions.

Like them or not, Unions are necessary to keep business leaders (in both Union or non-Union companies) in check. You receive benefits from your employer because Unions exist. You receive pay increases from your employer because Unions exist. You have a right to acceptable working conditions because Unions exist. The world would not be a better place without Unions, and I'd go as far as to say that it would be a much worse place.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
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They should just fire them all on the spot, and hire all new employees. In the current environment, I'm sure there are plenty of willing and able workers to fill the void.
 
Jul 10, 2007
12,041
3
0
Wait so 52k is a lot to you? Do you know how much a commercail driver can make in the private sector, or a heavy machines mechanic, etc...

The benifits are one of the reasons people take the lower pay yet 4% is to much for you?

for a subway platform sweeper, yes.

if they want to make more in the private sector, they should apply for a job there.
not cripple a city by going on strike.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
They should just fire them all on the spot, and hire all new employees. In the current environment, I'm sure there are plenty of willing and able workers to fill the void.

Yea I am sure they could hire 5000 people with commercial driving licenses, trained heavy machine mechanics, etc… just like that. Let alone the fact that these new people could just join the union after they start and be back to square one and cost the city a lot more than they would ever save.
But yea lets go with your idea, great thinking.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
for a subway platform sweeper, yes.

if they want to make more in the private sector, they should apply for a job there.
not cripple a city by going on strike.

Sorry but where does it say a “subway platform sweeper” makes over 50k a year?

It says average. i.e. a lot of people make less then 50k even with the union.
 

AyashiKaibutsu

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2004
9,306
4
81
I love how people will defend to their death corpations doing whatever it takes to raise their stock 1 cent and ensure executive bonuses, but if the workers do it blarg! evil unions! destroying america!
 

Patranus

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2007
9,280
0
0
LOL - I am sure one of the +10% unemployed who are probably more qualified than these high school dropouts would gladly step in and take a job.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
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I love how people will defend to their death corpations doing whatever it takes to raise their stock 1 cent and ensure executive bonuses, but if the workers do it blarg! evil unions! destroying america!

The only corporation involved here is the city of Philadelphia, which already taxes the shit out of people (Philly has an income tax of 4.5% and sales tax of 1% on top of the state income/sales taxes of 3.03%/6%). Do those employees want to see taxes go up to support their wage, thus rendering it useless?

Septa operates at a MASSIVE taxpayer-supported loss. Would they prefer they cut routes and lay off 20% of the workers to make up for that budget shortfall?
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Yea I am sure they could hire 5000 people with commercial driving licenses, trained heavy machine mechanics, etc… just like that. Let alone the fact that these new people could just join the union after they start and be back to square one and cost the city a lot more than they would ever save.
But yea lets go with your idea, great thinking.

Bust the union. Fire them all, hire all new workers. Heck, I'd bet that if you fired them all, most of them would tuck their tail in between their legs and come begging back for the job. Union busted, everything fixed.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
The world would not be a better place without Unions, and I'd go as far as to say that it would be a much worse place.

No, the world would be a much better place without them. I can think of specific scenarios when a union would be needed, but they are few and far between.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
I love how people will defend to their death corpations doing whatever it takes to raise their stock 1 cent and ensure executive bonuses, but if the workers do it blarg! evil unions! destroying america!

If you don't like what the "evil" corporation does, and you think you are underpaid, you can go work somewhere else, or you can start your own business.

This union is doing exactly what worthless unions all over the world do: they increase the cost of doing business by forcing the employer to overpay for labor. They create inefficiency.

At a time when most people are happy just to have a job, these union idiots are striking because they want 4% raises and better health benefits than just about any other workers out there in the real world. Fire them all.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,123
45,141
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The only corporation involved here is the city of Philadelphia, which already taxes the shit out of people (Philly has an income tax of 4.5% and sales tax of 1% on top of the state income/sales taxes of 3.03%/6%). Do those employees want to see taxes go up to support their wage, thus rendering it useless?

Septa operates at a MASSIVE taxpayer-supported loss. Would they prefer they cut routes and lay off 20% of the workers to make up for that budget shortfall?

That's what the Chicago Transit Authority is doing. We're facing a $175M (ish) hole in the next operating budget and the unions refuse to talk about not proceeding with their annual automatic 3% cost of living raises. Instead the CTA is going to layoff a 1000+ of their membership and reduce service.

It seems like transit unions are totally unable to accept the reality of our current economic situation.
 

seepy83

Platinum Member
Nov 12, 2003
2,132
3
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No, the world would be a much better place without them. I can think of specific scenarios when a union would be needed, but they are few and far between.

What you aren't taking into account is the fact that if there were no Unions at all, the benefits, cost-of-living raises, etc that non-union workers take for granted could very easily not exist anymore.
 

JeepinEd

Senior member
Dec 12, 2005
869
63
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From personal experience:
I operate a small company in CA. We had a client in the entertainment industry, who was forced by the unions to start using a unionized company. This company is so unhappy with the service they are now getting, that they are begging us to find a way to service them again. I figured I would call the local union to find out what we can do.
In order to be a union company, I would have to increase my employees pay by 200% plus pay an additional $6.00/hr per employee for union related dues. They also wanted a 3 year contract. I asked them, what happens if I lose the client? Too bad, you're stuck with union rates until the contract is up.

How can our client have a competitive advantage when they are force to use sub-par labor and pay (according to them) 3 times the amount they used to pay for the same service?
How can my business get ahead when it's prohibited from doing business with companies that have been bullied into submission by these unions?
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
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What you aren't taking into account is the fact that if there were no Unions at all, the benefits, cost-of-living raises, etc that non-union workers take for granted could very easily not exist anymore.
Well it would increase the companies bottom lines and after all it's all about the companies.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
seepy83 said:
What you aren't taking into account is the fact that if there were no Unions at all, the benefits, cost-of-living raises, etc that non-union workers take for granted could very easily not exist anymore.
Well it would increase the companies bottom lines and after all it's all about the companies.
lol, you union lappers are hilarious. The sky would not fall if unions didn't exist. They are a middleman/leech in the market. For companies to compete for talent they would have to offer competitive wages and benefits so these sorts of things wouldn't just disappear.

I will agree and admit that unions had a place in the market back when people were less mobile and less educated and needed the "protection" but in today's age there is little/no need for these things. The unions have become what they used to fight against.

what the hell is wrong with the multiquote - sheesh.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
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Yep the workers would be more disposable thus lowering wages and benefits. A win win for businesses