philly transit union workers go on strike...

[CADsortaGUY]

old argument is old

its the same union haters in every union thread...

Same old union knob slobbers with the same old tired and outdated concepts.

 

[Hacp]

Yep and if they can find someone hungry enough to do the job cheaper they can replace you with no problem at all. Unless a person has a skill that's unique without the ability to organize or the threat of organizing the worker is at the mercy of the employer.

Without Unions there would be a lot more hungry workers out there that'd be willing to do the job cheaper because they'd be more desperate for work.

Why is this a bad thing? You mean to say that instead of lazy union workers, you might have people that actually care about their job performance because they could get fired at any time for doing a bad job?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Ah now it comes out, you are envious that they make a good wage and have great benefits which you can't have.Their wages aren't over inflated, Contractors make great profits paying those wages and benefits. How you ask, they make their money on the material, they always have and it works well for them. Sure small time contractors can't because they don't do enough volume, that's why most of them are non union and use lessor quality trades people.

Envious? No. Sorry but I control my future, not some union rule. I do dislike that their inflated wages can destroy projects - especially in certain areas of the country. I worked in Illinois on a project this summer in the Electrical 176 local - worthless and overpaid(minus maybe 2 of 30). Slow as hell, careless, and couldn't follow simple directions.
BTW, I have better wages(salary) and benefits than the tradespeople I work with - however the difference is that I earn it. I don't just put in my 7.5 hours and leave - I get the job done and done right. If I saw that from the union trades I wouldn't complain nearly as much but my experience has been pretty bad with them.

 

[Jhhnn]

Your retirement is your choice. "Save" allows you the choice of how you want to do it. I personally have some "savings" and some "investments". It is not the responsibility of an employer to provide for you when you no longer provide for them. Stop being a leech.

SSDD from you, as usual. Those of us who actually have pension plans have been paying for the retirements of our seniors ever since pensions existed. I suppose that doesn't count in the world of union-hate... or in the headset where it's all about me, where the other guy doesn't count.

Just scream it at the top of your lungs- Screw You! It's all about Me! ME! ME!

Easy enough when your Wall St bonus totals 7 or 8 figures, and easy enough when they have you thinking you're like them, when you're not...

 

[Genx87]

8-Hour Work Day, 5-Day Work Week, Overtime Pay, Child Labor Laws, Prevailing Wage, workers rights, etc...all of these exist because of the Union/Organized Labor Movement. That is the reality that I know, and if you don't know that reality then maybe you should check your history books. The fact is that if Unions did not exist, you (as a worker) would not enjoy many of the benefits that you take for granted today.

That is really irrelevant. Those movements were happening and being pushed before labor unions were even legal.

You take the option for workers to organize out of the equation, and down the road (30, 50, 100, how ever many years from today) people are going to be wondering why they lost many of the benefits that their parents/grandparents/etc had.

Again, where have I said people shouldnt have the right to organize??!?!??!?!?!?
It is just saying it is a bunch of fearmongering horseshit that without labor unions every skilled worker will suddenly work for slave wages and lose their benefits. The market for skilled workers is intense. Companies bend over backwards to attract talent. Explain to me how companies will attract talent by offering less benefits and pay than their competitors?

 

[Adrenaline]

Envious? No. Sorry but I control my future, not some union rule. I do dislike that their inflated wages can destroy projects - especially in certain areas of the country. I worked in Illinois on a project this summer in the Electrical 176 local - worthless and overpaid(minus maybe 2 of 30). Slow as hell, careless, and couldn't follow simple directions.
BTW, I have better wages(salary) and benefits than the tradespeople I work with - however the difference is that I earn it. I don't just put in my 7.5 hours and leave - I get the job done and done right. If I saw that from the union trades I wouldn't complain nearly as much but my experience has been pretty bad with them.

This is from your experience with the ones around where you live, so I can understand this as it is from YOUR experience and YOUR point of view. You are entitled to your opinion.

My experience on the other hand has been the opposite by a long shot. I am in a union and see my union brothers actually care about what they do and how stuff gets done. My union has about 200 people working daily.

Now, there is a company about 20 minutes outside of the city I live in that had a union a while back. The company told the workers if they got rid of the union they would get more money ($8/hour) a better 401k and other perks. So the workers opted out of the union entirely. What does the comapny do? They do not give them anything new they "offered" them, freeze their pay for 2 years and fire 10% of the people to let them know that if they wanted to complain there was the door.

To each their own I guess. I am happy we have a union here. I can see the need for them in some areas but they are not needed everywhere like they were in past.

 

[StageLeft]

Unions are a necessity for those in the building trade . A Tradesman would lose a hefty amount of wages and most of their benefits if they were to abandon the Unions. How else can someone get a pension if they have to go from job site to job site as is the nature for residential construction, trust the contractors? Fucking please, that's be a joke.

Most people don't have a pension of any relevance now, at least nobody my age does or ever will. Social security plus retirement savings are what we have.

The company told the workers if they got rid of the union they would get more money ($8/hour) a better 401k and other perks. So the workers opted out of the union entirely. What does the comapny do? They do not give them anything new they "offered" them, freeze their pay for 2 years and fire 10% of the people to let them know that if they wanted to complain there was the door.

owned. I actually feel bad for those who fell for that by the company. I think companies don't give a fvck about employees. Nobody really thinks they do. Record profits could hit a company (as some are this year) and still freeze wages maybe lay a few people off. It sucks. And unions and organization do act as somewhat of a valve against the seeming inevitability of money to make more of itself while leeching from others' money, the rich getting richer poor poorer. But nobody can pretend that a guy who started sweeping floors 25 years ago and now presses buttons on a machine all day, basically not becoming any more valuable/skilled over those decades, should be getting $30/hour plus health benefits, pension, etc. It's just silly and one aspect of unions is that in some cases they do reward ineptitude via overpaying well above market wage.

I don't care much about private unions. I am strongly against those I see at the government level. The unions in NY state can essentially hold the people hostage. There are no private alternatives. If, for example, you're getting a service in some manner because it's the gov and there is only one it gives too much power to the union members, which is why they seem endlessly to get raises and other crap while those who actually pay for the government are struggling.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Well it seems they have it better than you. Must piss you off.

maybe they do, maybe they don't... regardless, not pissing me off.

at 25, i have $20k in my 401k, another $30k in rainy day funds (6-9 months living expenses), 2 properties (1 primary residence, 1 rental property that's paying for itself and then some).
when the economy stabilizes, that $30k will go towards down payment for another rental property.

i think i'll be more than ok when i retire.


what pisses me off is when unions that provide public services go on strike, crippling the city, all because they are demanding higher pay and benefits, which ultimately results in higher taxes/fares for the general public. and to do this in a down economy, where they should be happy to have a job, any job.
another thing that pisses me off is when unions use dishonest tactics to win bids for contracts.

 

[StageLeft]

maybe they do, maybe they don't... regardless, not pissing me off.

at 25, i have $20k in my 401k, another $30k in rainy day funds (6-9 months living expenses), 2 properties (1 primary residence, 1 rental property that's paying for itself and then some).
when the economy stabilizes, that $30k will go towards down payment for another rental property.

i think i'll be more than ok when i retire.

At that rate yes, but it's unusual for your age to be like that, even among people who are not irresponsible with money.

 

[dartworth]

maybe they do, maybe they don't... regardless, not pissing me off.

at 25, i have $20k in my 401k, another $30k in rainy day funds (6-9 months living expenses), 2 properties (1 primary residence, 1 rental property that's paying for itself and then some).
when the economy stabilizes, that $30k will go towards down payment for another rental property.

i think i'll be more than ok when i retire.


what pisses me off is when unions that provide public services go on strike, crippling the city, all because they are demanding higher pay and benefits, which ultimately results in higher taxes/fares for the general public. and to do this in a down economy, where they should be happy to have a job, any job.
another thing that pisses me off is when unions use dishonest tactics to win bids for contracts.

 

[Red Dawn]

maybe they do, maybe they don't... regardless, not pissing me off.

at 25, i have $20k in my 401k, another $30k in rainy day funds (6-9 months living expenses), 2 properties (1 primary residence, 1 rental property that's paying for itself and then some).
when the economy stabilizes, that $30k will go towards down payment for another rental property.

i think i'll be more than ok when i retire.

No doubt, you are better off now than a large percentage of Americans

what pisses me off is when unions that provide public services go on strike, crippling the city, all because they are demanding higher pay and benefits, which ultimately results in higher taxes/fares for the general public. and to do this in a down economy, where they should be happy to have a job, any job.
another thing that pisses me off is when unions use dishonest tactics to win bids for contracts.

unions like this one in Philly should realize that in the long run they are hurting not only the average Joe in Philly but themselves. On the other hand the city can't make them work, what the city can do is fire them or lust lock them out. Yeah it will hurt everybody but it will hurt the Union members more as they are the ones who won't be getting paid.

 

[Deeko]

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinio...EPTA_strikers__How_dare_you.html?nlid=2678307