Phil Jackson: Jordan better than Kobe

[Red Storm]

A few points to clarify:

Jordan never won anything until Phil came into the picture. Same goes for Kobe. Moral of the story? You need a great coach just as much as you need great players to win it all.

People talk about Jordan as if he was perfect at the end of games. I think in the playoffs he's 9 out of 18 or around there in game winning or end of game shots, which is 50%. Bear in mind that 50% number is actually really good compared to the rest (I think Kobe is like ~30% in the playoffs), but there's this myth that Jordan never missed a late game shot and that's simply not true even though he is the best ever.

Another point to consider is that in Jordan's entire career, he hit 9 game winning shots in the playoffs. This lone scenario seems to be overvalued when people say it's the reason why he's the best when it only happened 9 times. His play throughout a game is what made him the best ever, not his 50% game winning make rate.

 

[Childs]

That Malone/Payton team was some of the best basketball I've seen a team play. Then one day Kobe tells the press Karl Malone tried to fuck his wife. Wut? Kobe rapes a woman, admits that from her perspective yeah she was raped, then uses Shaq for excuse as to why he cheated on his wife. Shaq cheats on his wife, so you rape somebody? Just baffling stuff really.

hahaha I remember when he did that. Kobe is POS in many ways. Gave himself his own nickname, and uses it to refer to himself in the third person.

A few points to clarify:

Jordan never won anything until Phil came into the picture. Same goes for Kobe. Moral of the story? You need a great coach just as much as you need great players to win it all.

People talk about Jordan as if he was perfect at the end of games. I think in the playoffs he's 9 out of 18 or around there in game winning or end of game shots, which is 50%. Bear in mind that 50% number is actually really good compared to the rest (I think Kobe is like ~30% in the playoffs), but there's this myth that Jordan never missed a late game shot and that's simply not true even though he is the best ever.

Yeah, the rap on Jordan was that he didnt have what it took to win a championship. They would always bring up that 63 points he had in a playoff loss to the Celtics as why he'd never do it. Now he's the modern benchmark other champions are measured against.

As far as game winning shots, one thing that separates Jordan from others is that he isn't afraid of taking the last shot. All you can ask for is to have your best player take the last shot, and many times they don't.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Statistically, LBJ and MJJ are nearly identical.

MJ
LBJ
WC
BR
JE
SO

Those are the greatest basketball players ever, if you're going by statistics. Kobe is not even in any serious discussion.

If you're going by something other than statistics, then there is only one name on that list.

 

[wirednuts]

lebron is to basketball what bo jackson was to football. the only difference is, so far, lebron has stayed healthy.

 

[brainhulk]

To me Lebron is just another Charles Barkley. He just bulldozes through people. I don't see him lasting like Jordan did.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Wow, it's actually true ... Jordan is 9/18 in the playoffs for game winning shots.

http://chasing23.com/michael-jordan-game-winning-shots/

 

[zinfamous]

Statistically, LBJ and MJJ are nearly identical.

MJ
LBJ
WC
BR
JE
SO

Those are the greatest basketball players ever, if you're going by statistics. Kobe is not even in any serious discussion.

If you're going by something other than statistics, then there is only one name on that list.

There is a typo in your list because you meant to type:
OR

 

[Zargon]

lebron is to basketball what bo jackson was to football. the only difference is, so far, lebron has stayed healthy.

LOL wut?


what made bo so impressive was his ability to be the top at 2 different pro sports(if you want to call baseball a sport )

what else does lebron do besides basketball and twitter?

 

[SphinxnihpS]

There is a typo in your list because you meant to type:
OR

OR is supposed to be on there too. Holy fuck that he's not! I swear I typed in OR SO. Good catch. A list like this WO OR is like a an OR without an RN!

 

[zinfamous]

OR is supposed to be on there too. Holy fuck that he's not! I swear I typed in OR SO. Good catch. A list like this WO OR is like a an OR without an RN!

 

[zinfamous]

LOL wut?


what made bo so impressive was his ability to be the top at 2 different pro sports(if you want to call baseball a sport )

what else does lebron do besides basketball and twitter?

well, baseball is the best sport. period.

 

[RossMAN]

Speaking of Jordan vs Kobe, has anyone seen this?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...could-beat-lebron-james-1-153805134--nba.html

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Whatever, Dennis Rodman forever!

Sorry, anyone that can effectively gaurd Shack is good.

 

[darkewaffle]

"gaurd Shack"

 

[slightlyhuman]

I think Kobe would beat both Lebron and Jordan in 1-on-1.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Godwin's second law states that Jordan dominated the sport so very strongly and absolutely, that at no point is it ever morally acceptable or justified to compare another basketball player to him.

It's sort of like how Godwins first law invalidates your argument when people bring up a comparison to Hitler.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Mike to basketball is what Sienna was to Formula 1 or what Bugatti is to cars.

There never will be another, regardless if stats/#s tell a different story. If it wasn't for Mike NBA itself would never be where it is/has been past 15-20 years. He put NBA on the WORLD's radar. He took Sports advertising/marketing to a whole another level.

People often forget that what Mike has done on and off the court has been beyond what anyone has ever done in ANY SPORT......and chances are, ever will.

Show me highlights of Lebron or Kobe that come even close to this guy.....go ahead....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGLaKfEyRL4

Jordan is probably the greatest ATHLETE of ANY sport. You can't even come CLOSE to saying that about Kobe or Lebron.

Lebron = over rated. And yes NBA want's to make a Jordan out of everyone, cause they know exactly how much fame and money Jordan has brought them.

 

[Demoralized]

Why are people even making comparisons to Jordan?

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Mike to basketball is what Sienna was to Formula 1 or what Bugatti is to cars.

There never will be another, regardless if stats/#s tell a different story. If it wasn't for Mike NBA itself would never be where it is/has been past 15-20 years. He put NBA on the WORLD's radar. He took Sports advertising/marketing to a whole another level.

People often forget that what Mike has done on and off the court has been beyond what anyone has ever done in ANY SPORT......and chances are, ever will.

Show me highlights of Lebron or Kobe that come even close to this guy.....go ahead....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGLaKfEyRL4

Jordan is probably the greatest ATHLETE of ANY sport. You can't even come CLOSE to saying that about Kobe or Lebron.

Lebron = over rated. And yes NBA want's to make a Jordan out of everyone, cause they know exactly how much fame and money Jordan has brought them.

I bet the montage of Jordan pushing players away to create space before his shots would be 10x longer than Kobe and Lebron combined.

If Jordan would have been called for every time he offensively pushed another player in this manner, he'd have 20% less points per game.

 

[KhoiFather]

Lebron is a bum. Just watch him closely, he gets all his shots in by screens. He can't create a shot to save his life. I've never seen someone flop so much.

Jordan and Kobe on the other had, they create their own shots. They don't need no screen to be able to make a perimeter shot. It's a disgrace to compare Lebron to these two.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Lebron is a bum. Just watch him closely, he gets all his shots in by screens. He can't create a shot to save his life. I've never seen someone flop so much.

Jordan and Kobe on the other had, they create their own shots. They don't need no screen to be able to make a perimeter shot. It's a disgrace to compare Lebron to these two.

Agreed, unless "creating a shot" = driving in for a lay up......while "quality" players in current NBA stand around and watch him score without even trying to stop/block him.

SO many uncontested lay ups in NBA it drives me insane. Players just watching......lazy, or simply forced to give it up for NBA ratings?

 

[Vdubchaos]

I bet the montage of Jordan pushing players away to create space before his shots would be 10x longer than Kobe and Lebron combined.

If Jordan would have been called for every time he offensively pushed another player in this manner, he'd have 20% less points per game.

I hope you are joking...

You are comparing physical/hard core NBA play to pussified NBA play of the 2000s/current.

 

[zinfamous]

I imagine this topic is rather big on the internet, because the internet didn't really exist, or well--was not so ubiquitous, during Jordan's prime.

I imagine this is dominated by kiddies that never saw Jordan play, and think that Kobe/Lebron are the bees knees of all that ever was basketball.

Of course, these kiddies are stupid.

Further, the NBA pretty much ceased to exist as a legitimate sports league around the time that Jordan retired, anyway. (And no--I'm no MJ fanboy)

 

[zinfamous]

I bet the montage of Jordan pushing players away to create space before his shots would be 10x longer than Kobe and Lebron combined.

If Jordan would have been called for every time he offensively pushed another player in this manner, he'd have 20% less points per game.

First--Jordan didn't need to push off in the first half of his career because he played above everyone else.

Second--He didn't really need to push off in the 2nd half of his career when he developed his fade-away, which was nearly indefensible.

Not saying Jordan didn't push off, I'm sure he did, ...but again, the NBA was about basketball then. Not this soccer floppery you see today. I still wonder why people watch it...

 

[maziwanka]

I hope you are joking...

You are comparing physical/hard core NBA play to pussified NBA play of the 2000s/current.

that's exactly what jordan said in his interview too.