Pew research paper

[fskimospy]

It's long, but worth the read.

In short this report shows that in nearly every meaningful area, the right is losing... and in some cases the loss is catastrophic. People who identify themselves as Republicans are in steep decline, secularism is on the rise, support for wars, etc has gone into the toilet, people are now more supportive of using the government to help the less fortunate, the list goes on and on.

What I found most interesting about this was that I remember some of the right wing people on here complaining that this board was very liberal. From looking at this report... it looks to me that if anything this board may be slightly to the right of center of what America believes. (lots of libertarians floating around here) I wonder if those who defend these positions on here realize just how alone you are becoming... and just how little of America now shares these beliefs.

I'm really not trying to gloat here (although I do admit that it brings me a lot of personal satisfaction to see the right going down in flames), but I think that this report here shows a right wing in America in retreat on nearly every issue. It appears that the rightward swing America had been enduring since the 80's reached its peak in 2000 or so, and has been falling back ever since.

 

[Moonbeam]

The right is not going down in flames. The right is becoming the left. Humanity is on a long slow crawl up and out of the slime.

 

[fskimospy]

You are right in a way. That's the one good part about being on the left in terms of social issues... you always win in the end. (ie. society has become progressively more liberal over the centuries).

What I meant by it was that the issues that the right wing took as their own in the last several decades are seeing broad based declines in support.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Meh... I wouldn't confuse total dissatisfaction with the current status of the R party and the current admin with a rejection of conservative ideals.

People are pissed off. I'm one of them. I'm actually giving some of the D candidates for prez consideration, something I never did before, because the current crop of Rs just sucks.

But that doesn't mean I don't still lean to the right and it doesn't mean I think conservatism is dead... All it means is that the current crop of "conservative" (HA) leaders is a sad, sick joke.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
it looks to me that if anything this board may be slightly to the right of center of what America believes. (lots of libertarians floating around here)

This board has always been right of center, what the more rabid righties don't like is that people here push back openly, and any visible opinion that contradicts theirs means total bias, it's the victim game they love to play.

I consider myself somewhat unashamedly left of center and this forum is usually far too right compared to other open debate forums with both sides represented.

Also the more power they lose the more the righties get desperate and love to cry victim of bias, not realizing it is they who are being left behind with the times, not that there is any nefarious liberal conspiracy.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: eskimospy
it looks to me that if anything this board may be slightly to the right of center of what America believes. (lots of libertarians floating around here)

This board has always been right of center, what the more rabid righties don't like is that people here push back openly, and any visible opinion that contradicts theirs means total bias, it's the victim game they love to play.

Are you serious? Every poll ever conducted on this forum leans at least 60/40 left. ATOT seems to lean right, but P&N? :laugh:

You need to reverse your left/right comparison.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: eskimospy
it looks to me that if anything this board may be slightly to the right of center of what America believes. (lots of libertarians floating around here)

This board has always been right of center, what the more rabid righties don't like is that people here push back openly, and any visible opinion that contradicts theirs means total bias, it's the victim game they love to play.

Are you serious? Every poll ever conducted on this forum leans at least 60/40 left. ATOT seems to lean right, but P&N? :laugh:
You need to reverse your left/right comparison.

Most folks when asked about social issues will be more liberal, it does not make them leftists though in any sense, they are just not freepers way off the deep end, this forum and most of the leftist posters are actually quite right of center when it comes down to it and have no shame in deriding anyone who has a leftist view as a radical (which is laughable if you look at the rest of the western world which has social democratic parties as mainstream.)

A few good examples of the right-of center tilt in here out of whack with the mainstream..... Gun laws, nuke power, immigration, (sometimes) criticizing Israel, death penalty, etc.

If you speak up about these topics from a leftist viewpoint you get endlessly bashed even by fellow "leftists" stifling any constructive debate from the other point of view, I blame tv news mostly as this forum is usually just a corporate mainstream media sounding board that frames most of the debate.

You don't see many europeans post here as the tone here is far out of whack with what is mainstream leftist in the rest of the world, you just gotta shake your head sometimes at the US right of center bias that does a poor job of being "centrist".

The uber capitalist "free-market" libertarians (a very US phenomena) are harmless eccentrics but I agree that their view is largely overrepresented here also .

If someone came out and said they were from the other side of libertarianism and were socialist libertarians they would be bashed and laughed out of P&N by both the right and the "left" even though it is a more popular view then the market libertarians in reality.

In other words the left has a long way to go in USA to drag it's name out of he mud.

It's all about who is framing the debate, and the left is and has been in defensive mode now for a long time, so much that the democratic party is in a lot of ways the same as the reps here in the USA trying to out-centrist themselves because words like socialism have a negative connotation here in the states thanks to divisive right wing bs since the mccarthy era.

Left-Right scope of mainstream political opinion nowdays.

I would consider imo the vast majority of posters in here to be DLC Democrats/New England Socially liberal Republican libertarians who are fed up with their party (or Bush -but who isn't?) and not very left at all.

To sum it up: just because someone is not for shoveling the homeless into gas chambers, privatizing your own grandma or carpet bombing the rest of the known world to dust because they dare disagree with our foreign policy does not make them a leftist.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I don't think even abortion, gay marriage, and fear mongering, can save the GOP in '08. This admin has thumbed its nose at the voters since the '04 re-election, and the entire GOP continues to be plagued by one scandal after another. All the while, the Iraqi occupation goes poorly, Afghanistan is still a mess, debt continues to grow, oil companies are raking in record profits, and the prospect of another war always seems to loom on the horizon. Can any GOP runner distance themselves enough to win the WH, my magic 8ball says no.

 

[Thump553]

As commonly used, the terms right and left are pretty much meaningless. To me, conservative values pretty much equate with libertarian ideals-the less government the better, and government intrusion into our personal lives should be kept to a minimum.

Look at what passes for right-wing today-wholesale government intrusion into personal lives-legislating "morality"-hot buttons issues being whether other people have the terminity to be gay, married to a partner of their choice, burn a flag, kill a stem cell in the name of medical research, etc.

I'm what many here would consider a leftie, and have been for decades, but I embrace much of what should be considered conservative values.

What it boils down to is what intrusions you will tolerate from the government in the name of the greater good. Frankly, the neoconservatives have just about totally dropped the ball as far as most rational people consider. I don't think it is too farfetched to label them as the American Taliban Lite.

 

[1EZduzit]

The pendulum of power is definitley swinging back to the left again. Now the people have to ask themselves, what are we going to do with that power?

 

[piasabird]

You can be compassionate and humanitarian and be either a Democrat or a Republican. Party politics is just so evil that it is devisive. Democrats may say they care about the Poor, but I have not seen any proof that the poor do any better under either Democratic or Republican leadership. Party Policits is a special kind of racism.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: eskimospy
it looks to me that if anything this board may be slightly to the right of center of what America believes. (lots of libertarians floating around here)

This board has always been right of center, what the more rabid righties don't like is that people here push back openly, and any visible opinion that contradicts theirs means total bias, it's the victim game they love to play.

I consider myself somewhat unashamedly left of center and this forum is usually far too right compared to other open debate forums with both sides represented.

Also the more power they lose the more the righties get desperate and love to cry victim of bias, not realizing it is they who are being left behind with the times, not that there is any nefarious liberal conspiracy.

Great comedy, however considering the comedian that statement doesnt surprise me. I think Stalin is right of old Steep.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87



Great comedy, however considering the comedian that statement doesnt surprise me. I think Stalin is right of old Steep.

Not surprising you would think so considering anyone to the right of mussolini is your kinda guy. 😉

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
It's long, but worth the read.

In short this report shows that in nearly every meaningful area, the right is losing... and in some cases the loss is catastrophic. People who identify themselves as Republicans are in steep decline, secularism is on the rise, support for wars, etc has gone into the toilet, people are now more supportive of using the government to help the less fortunate, the list goes on and on.

What I found most interesting about this was that I remember some of the right wing people on here complaining that this board was very liberal. From looking at this report... it looks to me that if anything this board may be slightly to the right of center of what America believes. (lots of libertarians floating around here) I wonder if those who defend these positions on here realize just how alone you are becoming... and just how little of America now shares these beliefs.

I'm really not trying to gloat here (although I do admit that it brings me a lot of personal satisfaction to see the right going down in flames), but I think that this report here shows a right wing in America in retreat on nearly every issue. It appears that the rightward swing America had been enduring since the 80's reached its peak in 2000 or so, and has been falling back ever since.

None of this should surprise you, people are indoctrinated early in life through the public school system that govt is good, govt is your savior, govt is your new god.

After generations of this and the constant attacks from the left people are simply succumbing to the left. The biggest proof of this pudding are the neo-cons who run the republican party. Big govt, big spenders is all they are. The true conservatives are being run out of the conservative party. The options are now democrat left, or democrat lite.

While you can gloat please realize at some point the left values you so admire will hit critical mass and like all major left leaning states in the past, massive amounts of opppresion will happen with a huge gap between rich(in this case political elites) and poor(common folk). If you dont believe me, simply view the last 40 years of govt expansion and how every week a new report comes out showing the gap between rich and poor is bigger than ever.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
people are now more supportive of using the government to help the less fortunate,

People were always supportive of using the gov't to help the less fortunate; what they've been unwilling to do is actually pay for all that charity. Hence, we get the perfect (deficit) storm - majorities favoring more gov't spending but opposing more gov't taxation, and having no problem with piling up the debt. People are only fiscal liberals with other people's money, but are strong fiscal conservatives with their own.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87
If you dont believe me, simply view the last 40 years of govt expansion and how every week a new report comes out showing the gap between rich and poor is bigger than ever.

Welcome to capitalism run amok into our government.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87



Great comedy, however considering the comedian that statement doesnt surprise me. I think Stalin is right of old Steep.

Not surprising you would think so considering anyone to the right of mussolini is your kinda guy. 😉

This must be more of your confusion over many of the small govt libertarian ideals I hold and big govt facism.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87
If you dont believe me, simply view the last 40 years of govt expansion and how every week a new report comes out showing the gap between rich and poor is bigger than ever.

Welcome to capitalism run amok into our government.

More comedy gold.
Govt expansion is not capitalism!

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87



Great comedy, however considering the comedian that statement doesnt surprise me. I think Stalin is right of old Steep.

Not surprising you would think so considering anyone to the right of mussolini is your kinda guy. 😉

This must be more of your confusion over many of the small govt libertarian ideals I hold and big govt facism.

Fascism is not about the government alone, it is about corporatism and the government combined with a right wing dictatorship.

 

[daveshel]

I've been thinking ever since Bush was ruled president that there would be a big backlash when it was over.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87



Great comedy, however considering the comedian that statement doesnt surprise me. I think Stalin is right of old Steep.

Not surprising you would think so considering anyone to the right of mussolini is your kinda guy. 😉

This must be more of your confusion over many of the small govt libertarian ideals I hold and big govt facism.

Fascism is not about the government alone, it is about corporatism and the government combined with a right wing dictatorship.

No ****** sherlock, now what does that to do with classic liberalism?

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: Genx87

No ****** sherlock, now what does that to do with classic liberalism?

Please, save the ayn rand cultist stuff for your schoolyard economist wannabe friends, not this thread.

 

[Lemon law]

What I now fear is somewhat is shown on this thread---and what has become of many governments
across the world---and that something is lack of consistency---as a given government lurches far left or right of center--then corrects the screw ups of that government by next lurching equally far on the other side of center---and then just repeats those lurches as sort of a series of fishtail skids for many many decades. Meanwhile---on the economy front---no one can count on the cost of doing business and as a result no one invests in the future.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot

Originally posted by: Genx87

No ****** sherlock, now what does that to do with classic liberalism?

Please, save the ayn rand cultist stuff for your schoolyard economist wannabe friends, not this thread.

You made the claims, answer the question. What does corporatism, Facism, big govt, and collectivism have to do with Classic Liberalism?

It is amazing how you try to lump two things diametrically opposed to each other into the same group.

It must be part of your me vs them attitude. Anybody not hell bent on Stalinism is one in the same.

 

[Steeplerot]

This is why it is pointless to argue with you newly discovered right-wing "libertarians", stupid strawmen like bring stalinism into this.

You in over your head once again. Mixed market economies do not = stalinism