Pesticides threaten birds and bees alike, study says

[Texashiker]

You have a huge disconnect from reality.

In the past month I harvested 6 bushels of potatoes from my garden and well over 50 pounds of squash and zucchini. Then there are the bell peppers, snap beans and tomatoes.

My chickens are averaging 5 eggs a day. When the new hens start laying we should be getting close to 18 eggs a day.

Growing your own and 'natural' are not a panacea that will magically overcome today's challenges.

I do not think it is a matter of overcoming modern challenges, I think it more about bringing balance to our food needs.

There needs to be a balance between locally grown and commercially grown foods.

 

[DrPizza]

Just as an aside for a moment,


xbiffx, where are my Round-up ready strawberry plants? All I want you to do is splice in the gene for glyphosate resistance. You guys at your company need to get busy with that one.


To TexasHiker, I destroy any weeds (if ever there were weeds that survive it) that survive glyphosate. I know you're been conflating the difference between herbicides/weeds and pesticides/insects. But, it's pretty stupid to say, "don't use round-up, because if you do, it's possible that eventually weeds won't be killed by round-up." That makes as much sense as "don't shoot zombies, because eventually, some zombies might become resistant to being shot." You either kill them, or you don't kill them. Or import EVERYONE from central and South America to pick weeds out of fields.

 

[xBiffx]

xbiffx, where are my Round-up ready strawberry plants? All I want you to do is splice in the gene for glyphosate resistance. You guys at your company need to get busy with that one.

The work on fruits and veggies for the gardening type goes on in CA so I'm not sure. I look into it but I can say that this work is pretty slow. Lots of people worried about turning into Swamp Thing from eating GMO fruit/veggie.

 

[Victorian Gray]

BBC

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27980344



Is a 4 year study posted on BBC authority enough for you?


Canada

http://commonsensecanadian.ca/canada-mulls-crackdown-pesticides-suspected-killing-bees/

Neither article has even a passing reference to GMOs so your purpose in posting these links is?

 

[Texashiker]

But, it's pretty stupid to say, "don't use round-up, because if you do, it's possible that eventually weeds won't be killed by round-up."

Did I say do not use round up? Quote me where I did.

What I have been doing in this thread is posting links, to authority sites, saying that over use of GMO crops have led to resistant weeds and pest.

To kill the resistant pest we fall back to pesticides and herbicides.

It is not the GMO crops themselves that have led to resistant pest and weeds, it is their overuse and not planting enough non-GMO crops.

You should know all of this.

 

[realibrad]

Did I say do not use round up? Quote me where I did.

What I have been doing in this thread is posting links, to authority sites, saying that over use of GMO crops have led to resistant weeds and pest.

To kill the resistant pest we fall back to pesticides and herbicides.

It is not the GMO crops themselves that have led to resistant pest and weeds, it is their overuse and not planting enough non-GMO crops.

You should know all of this.

Before the use of pesticides and herbicides, what was used to stop the issues? If GMO crops have caused resistances, then what did we used to use?

 

[Texashiker]

Before the use of pesticides and herbicides, what was used to stop the issues?

People worked the fields. You saw a bug, you killed it, you used a hoe to remove weeds.

I personally do not use pesticides and herbicides. The bugs get their part and I get my part.

 

[realibrad]

People worked the fields. You saw a bug, you killed it, you used a hoe to remove weeds.

I personally do not use pesticides and herbicides. The bugs get their part and I get my part.

I would then assume those methods would still work. So if the GMO are not working as effectively, then all we have to do is go back to non GMO right?

 

[Brainonska511]

People worked the fields. You saw a bug, you killed it, you used a hoe to remove weeds.

I personally do not use pesticides and herbicides. The bugs get their part and I get my part.

Why is there such a desire to move back to farming techniques of the past? I don't see anyone pushing for moving back to 19th Century methods for other areas of the economy. Those techniques are far less efficient, with lower yields per acre - meaning we'd have to expend more resources: land, water, manpower, machinery, etc. to compensate for using inferior techniques.

 

[dank69]

The work on fruits and veggies for the gardening type goes on in CA so I'm not sure. I look into it but I can say that this work is pretty slow. Lots of people worried about turning into Swamp Thing from eating GMO fruit/veggie.

Swamp Thing seemed like a pretty cool guy so not sure why anyone would worry about that. :hmm: Who doesn't want to be able to regrow severed limbs?

 

[Texashiker]

Why is there such a desire to move back to farming techniques of the past?

I would then assume those methods would still work. So if the GMO are not working as effectively, then all we have to do is go back to non GMO right?

For me to lose half my tomatoes to bugs is no big deal. It is just my wife and I at home, it's not like I have to sell tomatoes for a living. If I lose some corn, so what, no big deal.

We need science, GMO, herbicides and pesticides to feed the world.

There are farmers out there who depend on that crop to pay his bills. There are nations out there who depend on our farmers for food.

As the world population grows, so does our need for pesticide. The more pesticides we use, the more damage we do to nature.

 

[realibrad]

For me to lose half my tomatoes to bugs is no big deal. It is just my wife and I at home, it's not like I have to sell tomatoes for a living. If I lose some corn, so what, no big deal.

We need science, GMO, herbicides and pesticides to feed the world.

There are farmers out there who depend on that crop to pay his bills. There are nations out there who depend on our farmers for food.

As the world population grows, so does our need for pesticide. The more pesticides we use, the more damage we do to nature.

So the issue is not that bugs are becoming resistant, its that pesticides hurt the environment? So why bring up the issue of bugs and weeds that are resistant when the issue is the damage to the environment?

 

[Texashiker]

So the issue is not that bugs are becoming resistant, its that pesticides hurt the environment?

Bugs are becoming resistant to GMO corn. Read up on the corn rootworm that in 4 states has developed resistance to GMO corn toxins.

This resistance is causing farmers to use pesticides again.

Those bugs are no different than bacteria that builds up a resistance to antibiotics. What do you do when bacteria is resistant to antibiotics? You have to use try something else or develop new antibiotics.

 

[xBiffx]

Bugs are becoming resistant to GMO corn. Read up on the corn rootworm that in 4 states has developed resistance to GMO corn toxins.

Again, get your facts right asshat. They aren't resistance to GMO anything. They are resistant to BT toxins. GMO's and BT toxins two different things. One exists independent of the other.

 

[realibrad]

Bugs are becoming resistant to GMO corn. Read up on the corn rootworm that in 4 states has developed resistance to GMO corn toxins.

This resistance is causing farmers to use pesticides again.

Those bugs are no different than bacteria that builds up a resistance to antibiotics. What do you do when bacteria is resistant to antibiotics? You have to use try something else or develop new antibiotics.

So is the problem that BT is not longer as effective, and so now we have to go back to what we used to do. The analogy does not work, because once bacteria become resistant, we no longer have anything that can stop an infection, but in this case with BT resistant bugs, we still have things we can do.

So the problem is simply that food prices will slightly rise, because now farmers will use non BT crops, which should save some money, and use pesticides, which costs more money.

 

[Texashiker]

Again, get your facts right asshat. They aren't resistance to GMO anything. They are resistant to BT toxins. GMO's and BT toxins two different things. One exists independent of the other.

If you want to split hairs and nitpick over terms, fine, have fun.

Has the corn rootworm developed resistance?

 

[xBiffx]

If you want to split hairs and nitpick over terms, fine, have fun.

Has the corn rootworm developed resistance?

Its not splitting hairs when you continue to misuse terms while having no idea of their meaning.

No, it already had resistance to BT toxins. That has been known and isn't a surprise seeing is how that's how plants naturally fight infestations.

 

[Texashiker]

No, it already had resistance to BT toxins. That has been known and isn't a surprise seeing is how that's how plants naturally fight infestations.

So the corn rootworm was always resistant to BT corn?

 

[xBiffx]

So the corn rootworm was always resistant to BT corn?

BT toxins, corn doesn't matter. I have no idea about always. That's a long time.

 

[Texashiker]

BT toxins, corn doesn't matter. I have no idea about always. That's a long time.

How about from the 1990s when GMO BT corn was first introduced?

Were certain pest, such as the corn rootworm, resistant to BT toxins before their introduction in the 1990s?

 

[xBiffx]

How about from the 1990s when GMO BT corn was first introduced?

Were certain pest, such as the corn rootworm, resistant to BT toxins before their introduction in the 1990s?

Yep, but BT can make different kinds of toxins (proteins). So since then, different toxins have been investigated. Its still BT but the effects can be altered. That's how they are able to make something work in India as well as the US even though the insects are different.

 

[Texashiker]

Yep, but BT can make different kinds of toxins (proteins). So since then, different toxins have been investigated. Its still BT but the effects can be altered. That's how they are able to make something work in India as well as the US even though the insects are different.

Let me see if I get this right,

Your stance is pest are not developing new resistance to BT toxins?

 

[xBiffx]

Let me see if I get this right,

Your stance is pest are not developing new resistance to BT toxins?

No, that is not my stance at all.