Pesticides threaten birds and bees alike, study says

[xBiffx]

BBC

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27980344



There you go, brand new study, GMO crops having a direct effect on bees.


Canada

http://commonsensecanadian.ca/canada...-killing-bees/

YOU ARE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY USELESS.

What does any of that have to do with GMOs? Are you even reading this stuff you're posting or just copy/paste away?

Edit: Nice editing out your GMO line. You are a complete asshat.

 

[Texashiker]

What does any of that have to do with GMOs? Are you even reading this stuff you're posting or just copy/paste away?

Are you not reading the articles I linked to?

Do you not believe in evolution?

Do you not believe in natural selection?

In any given population you are going to have natural resistance. This should be basic high school stuff, right?

Over use of GMOs kills off the weak, which leaves the strong to reproduce. GMO crops not able to fend off bugs, so farmers have to use pesticides.

Guess what, the bugs are resistant, so stronger pesticides have to be developed.

Stronger pesticides kill bees and birds.

It will not be long and we will have to be killing bugs with flame throwers.

 

[xBiffx]

Over use of GMOs kills off the weak, which leaves the strong to reproduce. GMO crops not able to fend off bugs, so farmers have to use pesticides.

False statements based on incorrect interpretation of information just to fit your agenda. Same shit, different day.

Insects' BT resistances evolve independent of GMO's. Why? BECAUSE GMO's ARE NOT THE ONLY SOURCE/USE OF BT.

 

[Texashiker]

False statements based on incorrect interpretation of information just to fit your agenda. Same shit, different day.

I have posted several links to authority sites to back up my statements.

I have no agenda here.

 

[xBiffx]

I have posted several links to authority sites to back up my statements.

I have no agenda here.

No, you simply haven't. You've come to conclusions which aren't supported by any of those links. But don't let me stop you from thinking you have any idea what you are talking about.

You must have an agenda because any objective person would see they were making giant leaps to unsubstantiated conclusions otherwise.

 

[realibrad]

If the argument is that farmers did not plant GMO crops, because bugs would be come resistant, then I'm confused. If the farmers did not plant GMO, then the bugs would eat them. If they did, then eventually the bugs would eat them.

So in the end, the bugs always eat them?

 

[xBiffx]

If the argument is that farmers did not plant GMO crops, because bugs would be come resistant, then I'm confused. If the farmers did not plant GMO, then the bugs would eat them. If they did, then eventually the bugs would eat them.

So in the end, the bugs always eat them?

Not all bugs are resistant to BT. BT is actually quite effective in certain cases and why organic farmers use it. Hence using a GMO crop with BT can limit your overall pesticide use. However, that is up to the farmer to decide. I'm not sure any are going to spend more money on seed (the idea being to save money) to then spend even more money on pesticide.

Edit: Also there are GMO products out there labeled like "Refuge in a bag" which contain a certain percentage of non BT seeds. The idea is that the insects will go to the non BT plants (refuges) and feed thereby reducing the impact of BT.

 

[Texashiker]

Hence using a GMO crop with BT can limit your overall pesticide use.

Will limit pesticide use for a short period of time.

Once the bugs adapt, evolve, develop resistance,,, the farmer will have to once again rely on pesticides.

Just like that is happening with the corn root worm. The corn root worm has evolved so BT corn no longer has an effect.

 

[xBiffx]

Will limit pesticide use for a short period of time.

Once the bugs adapt, evolve, develop resistance,,, the farmer will have to once again rely on pesticides.

Just like that is happening with the corn root worm. The corn root worm has evolved so BT corn no longer has an effect.

Where is GMO causing increased use of pesticides then? You are assuming all insects will develop a resistance, not substantiated. And corn root worm was already resistant to BT before GMO's came along.

 

[realibrad]

Not all bugs are resistant to BT. BT is actually quite effective in certain cases and why organic farmers use it. Hence using a GMO crop with BT can limit your overall pesticide use. However, that is up to the farmer to decide. I'm not sure any are going to spend more money on seed (the idea being to save money) to then spend even more money on pesticide.

Edit: Also there are GMO products out there labeled like "Refuge in a bag" which contain a certain percentage of non BT seeds. The idea is that the insects will go to the non BT plants (refuges) and feed thereby reducing the impact of BT.

I just dont get his argument. The point of GMO in this context, is to stop bugs. But, its not like once the bugs become resistant they consume more. To the net effect is a window where the bugs are not resistant and do not eat as much right?

I dont think the farmers did not use GMO because they were worried about resistant bugs. I think they did not want to because they did not want to spend the money on something that would eventually not work.

 

[xBiffx]

I just dont get his argument. The point of GMO in this context, is to stop bugs. But, its not like once the bugs become resistant they consume more. To the net effect is a window where the bugs are not resistant and do not eat as much right?

I dont think the farmers did not use GMO because they were worried about resistant bugs. I think they did not want to because they did not want to spend the money on something that would eventually not work.

Yep, that all could be true. But there is nothing to indicate that BT will become completely ineffective. It just isn't effective against certain insects or certain sub species of insect. But that really isn't anything new. Corn root worm BT tolerance has been known for a while now. The trick now is getting BT's to express a different protein (toxin) that might have an effect. Not all BT's work everywhere either. What works here, might not work in South American or India and vice versa.

 

[Texashiker]

If the argument is that farmers did not plant GMO crops, because bugs would be come resistant, then I'm confused. If the farmers did not plant GMO, then the bugs would eat them. If they did, then eventually the bugs would eat them.

So in the end, the bugs always eat them?

Farmers need to plant non-GMO crops to keep a population of non-resistant bugs alive and breeding.

Think of GMO as small pox.

People in the middle ages who had the ccr5 gene mutation had a natural resistance to small pox. Those genes were passed on so now people with the gene have resistance to HIV.

Bugs with certain genetic traits that allowed them to resist the GMO crop lives and passed those genes down. The bugs with no resistance died.

Farmers were supposed to plant non-GMO crops, this was like someone in Scotland never being exposed to small pox. That person had kids and his genes survived.

We want those bug genes who are not resistant to GMO to get passed down.

We are trying to kill the bugs, but the bugs are adapting. Kinda like how small pox tried to kill our ancestors, but the genes of our ancestors adapted.

Small pox and bubonic plague killed millions, but there was always a certain population that was resistant. That resistance was passed down. Just like what the bugs are doing.

 

[xBiffx]

Think of GMO as small pox.

And you have no agenda. At least you aren't trying to hide it now.

You keep saying resistant to GMO. Do you even know how ignorant that statement is?

 

[realibrad]

Farmers need to plant non-GMO crops to keep a population of non-resistant bugs alive and breeding.

Think of GMO as small pox.

People in the middle ages who had the ccr5 gene mutation had a natural resistance to small pox. Those genes were passed on so now people with the gene have resistance to HIV.

Bugs with certain genetic traits that allowed them to resist the GMO crop lives and passed those genes down. The bugs with no resistance died.

Farmers were supposed to plant non-GMO crops, this was like someone in Scotland never being exposed to small pox. That person had kids and his genes survived.

We want those bug genes who are not resistant to GMO to get passed down.

We are trying to kill the bugs, but the bugs are adapting. Kinda like how small pox tried to kill our ancestors, but the genes of our ancestors adapted.

If you dont plan to use GMO, then why do you care if bugs are GMO resistant?

Its not like the bugs that become GMO resistant become different in any other way, than being resistant to GMO's right? Is there something I'm missing?

 

[piasabird]

Havent we known for 50 years that pollution and pesticides can cause birds to have thinner egg shells?

 

[Texashiker]

If you dont plan to use GMO, then why do you care if bugs are GMO resistant?

Its not like the bugs that become GMO resistant become different in any other way, than being resistant to GMO's right? Is there something I'm missing?

Something like 90% of the commercially grown corn and soybean in the United States are GMO.

GMO resistant bugs are like antibiotic resistant bacteria. One major setback could send us back to the stone age.

BT resistant corn rootworm has been confirmed in 4 states

http://www.agweb.com/article/wester...to_bt_confirmed_in_four_states_NAA_Bloomberg/

You keep saying resistant to GMO. Do you even know how ignorant that statement is?

I never said resist GMO crops.

GMO can be beneficial to mankind. But only if used responsible.

How many commercial farmers use crop rotation? How many plant non-gmo crops?

 

[xBiffx]

GMO resistant bugs are like antibiotic resistant bacteria. One major setback could send us back to the stone age.

That's a whole lot of supposition, Chicken Little.

I never said resist GMO crops.

Do you even read what you type? I know you don't read what you link but now it seems you don't even read what you post in its entirety.

Bugs with certain genetic traits that allowed them to resist the GMO crop lives and passed those genes down.
.
.
.
We want those bug genes who are not resistant to GMO to get passed down.

 

[Texashiker]

Do you even read what you type? I know you don't read what you link but now it seems you don't even read what you post in its entirety.

Really? I never said for society to resist GMO.

You are taking my post out of context.

 

[xBiffx]

Really? I never said for society to resist GMO.

You are taking my post out of context.

Where did I say you did? There is no such thing as resistant to GMO. Its resistance to BT. But since your agenda driven mind can't differentiate GMO from a disease I guess I can see why you don't understand.

If insects become resistant to BT then its as much a problem for GMO as it is for organic farmers who use BT as well. Hence it has nothing specifically to do with just GMO's. So saying bugs are being/becoming resistant to GMO makes you look ignorant, not that you care.

 

[Texashiker]

But since your agenda driven mind can't differentiate GMO from a disease I guess I can see why you don't understand.

I have no agenda.

 

[realibrad]

Something like 90% of the commercially grown corn and soybean in the United States are GMO.

GMO resistant bugs are like antibiotic resistant bacteria. One major setback could send us back to the stone age.

BT resistant corn rootworm has been confirmed in 4 states

http://www.agweb.com/article/wester...to_bt_confirmed_in_four_states_NAA_Bloomberg/





I never said resist GMO crops.

GMO can be beneficial to mankind. But only if used responsible.

How many commercial farmers use crop rotation? How many plant non-gmo crops?

I don't think those are equitable analogies though. The reason antibiotic resistant bacteria is such a harm, is because we no longer have a way to kill those bacteria, and people die. If we don't have a way to kill the bugs that eat corn, then we go back to the days before the GMO. Bacteria that kill people increase, people die. BT resistant bugs just go back to eating the same amount pre BT.

 

[Texashiker]

If we don't have a way to kill the bugs that eat corn, then we go back to the days before the GMO. Bacteria that kill people increase, people die. BT resistant bugs just go back to eating the same amount pre BT.

We are at a point in the worlds population where we need GMO crops to feed everyone.

 

[realibrad]

We are at a point in the worlds population where we need GMO crops to feed everyone.

But not all GMO crops are made to deal with bugs. I do agree that GMO is important to supporting the global population, but not with the idea that the few crops that would be effected would cause any deaths. Poverty yes, but not death, because we have substitutions.

 

[Texashiker]

But not all GMO crops are made to deal with bugs. I do agree that GMO is important to supporting the global population, but not with the idea that the few crops that would be effected would cause any deaths. Poverty yes, but not death, because we have substitutions.

There is always the option to grow your own.

I have two rows of corn in my backyard. A row of sweet corn and a row of field corn.

One of the main issues with this GMO and pesticide issue is we are two dependent on science.

People need to get back to nature. Grow their own, can their own, eat their own, and with as little pesticides as possible.

 

[Brainonska511]

There is always the option to grow your own.

I have two rows of corn in my backyard. A row of sweet corn and a row of field corn.

One of the main issues with this GMO and pesticide issue is we are two dependent on science.

People need to get back to nature. Grow their own, can their own, eat their own, and with as little pesticides as possible.

You have a huge disconnect from reality. there is no way that even a majority of people can grow their own food, if not just due to lack of skills, which frankly, isn't a big deal, since society allows for the division of labor, but also the lack of arable land. Individuals don't have enough space to grow a large chunk of their own food. They are also going to face the same problems: pests, weeds, etc... Growing your own and 'natural' are not a panacea that will magically overcome today's challenges.