Lithium381
Lifer
- May 12, 2001
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I linked data earlier which sorta took into account poverty and xenophobia.
Hispanics.
On a whole they are poorer and there is certainly hostility towards them in all levels of US society.
at most the arrest level is 50% higher than the white level. It is not 700% higher like the blacks. And many arrests are immigration related.
The old dreaded per capita. I always see the threads about the per capita against us, but where are the ones that should be protesting for us?
Hmm, why are blacks under represented in fire departments, police departments, partners in law firms. Heavily under represented in the IT world, especailly at the admin level. In hospitals, managerial jobs, store managers. How can a recent foreigner or white person, even with 1/2 of the education get business loans, but blacks are turned away for funding. Ford, one of the most succesful companies right now in the world has achieved true diversity, but 90% of the rest of the business world has not.
And when blacks do earn their spot, its usually attirbuted to affirmative action, not that the black person earned it. At least according to the Anandtech "faithful" here anyway.
But its okay, because in about 20 years, we'll be mostly gray anyway, lol.
Hmm, why are blacks under represented in fire departments, police departments, partners in law firms. Heavily under represented in the IT world, especailly at the admin level. In hospitals, managerial jobs, store managers. How can a recent foreigner or white person, even with 1/2 of the education get business loans, but blacks are turned away for funding. Ford, one of the most succesful companies right now in the world has achieved true diversity, but 90% of the rest of the business world has not.
And when blacks do earn their spot, its usually attirbuted to affirmative action, not that the black person earned it. At least according to the Anandtech "faithful" here anyway.
But its okay, because in about 20 years, we'll be mostly gray anyway, lol.
you guys act like crime didnt exist before blacks were around. There will always be people at the bottom of the pit, if u're such simpletons that u insist its because of "race" then by all means believe that (even when u say race, u lump all blacks into one group because its simpler for you). No matter how detailed or thorough an explanation anyone gives you, you will not change your "belief", because that's all it is, a belief. Its not based on rationalazition, not based on science, just a belief born out of a complete lack of contact with black people so you run with your ridiculous assumptions. If you had friends from different backgrounds you'd realize most of them don't fit your ridiculous stereotypes.
You are simple minded, u need something as simple as racism to explain the complexities of this world. u probably also believe in god, because its a simple minded concept, and you come from a segregated town or small town were things are simple. all the power to u, but don't act like ure coming on here to have a serious debate. U're preaching to the quoire of other simple minded racists.
Regarding your wonderful statistics, "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics", they can be easily manipulated to explain all manners of things. Europeans have the most violent history on earth, and they're white, but me coming out and throwing statistic after statistic after statistic demonstrating white people's propensity to war & violence through over two millenia of countless European wars would never change your opinion of how white people are more peaceful than others. It's like arguing with someone who believes in god, there's no point, its an ingrained "belief" born out of fear of hell/sin/rejection by christ, and rationalization just won't work.
You are simple minded, u need something as simple as racism to explain the complexities of this world. u probably also believe in god, because its a simple minded concept, and you come from a segregated town or small town were things are simple. all the power to u, but don't act like ure coming on here to have a serious debate. U're preaching to the quoire of other simple minded racists.
Regarding your wonderful statistics, "there are lies, damn lies, and statistics", they can be easily manipulated to explain all manners of things. Europeans have the most violent history on earth, and they're white, but me coming out and throwing statistic after statistic after statistic demonstrating white people's propensity to war & violence through over two millenia of countless European wars would never change your opinion of how white people are more peaceful than others. It's like arguing with someone who believes in god, there's no point, its an ingrained "belief" born out of fear of hell/sin/rejection by christ, and rationalization just won't work.
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Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
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u r dumb.
Hate to break it to you child, but the statistics are good. You don't like them, so they can't be and that's your "scientific" analysis. Two millenia of whatever is not relevant to the discussion of crime NOW. Why is it happening and what can be done are. You manage to bring religion, whites, europeans, racism, and your personal ignorance, and that's your contribution. Fail.
Holding parents accountable for the behavior of their children would be a good start. I think this would be a great thing across all demographic groups
And Morgan Freemans. But that needs to be a cultural change
I don't think thats true at all. Schools can only provide so much of a foundation in life (if the ones they are attending are even decent). If the kid isn't getting enough from other sources (ie parents) they are left to figure out a lot on their own. So they look around them. Who is doing well on the surface? Well - that guys who sells weed to my friend has a nice car. Those guys have a nice social unit over there in that gang. Hey - that rapper rapping about murder and whores seems to be doing pretty well. The environment they grow up in is not condusive to long term success. Sure you can make it but it will often require luck to do so (Or having a teenager figure out long term success on their own - which is unfair to expect of them en mass)
:thumbsup: I am a firm believer that too many handouts can be detrimental to a person/family. There isn't that appriciation for work or the value of the handout.
There have been several studies from Thomas Stanley and William Danko that support this. They were not looking for this effect but discovered it during a different study. They found a link between what they defined as Economic Outpatient Care and high expedutures/low savings. This was done on a family basis not a governmental handout basis. The more money they were provided by their family the more they spent on unnessesary expenses and the less they saved - they were exponentially more frivolous with their money than those people/families that were not provided with EOC. They showed a behaviroal process that tended to assume that the money would always be there, they wouldn't have to worry about getting more, and a lack of appriciation for the value of that gift
Should we not give care and support to those in need? Of course we should. But a free and unending supply of support will only breed dependance on it
Well - if your post had any actual data in it it would help a great deal (at least for me)
Ok - lets take law firms (because google seemed willing to give the most actual data for that) It seems that ALL minorities are under prepresented in legal fields so it is not a black only problem. However, a brief Google search shows that the number of black applicants to the BAR is, generally, very low. Tough to be a partner when you don't take the test. Tough to take the test when don't go to law school (Declining applicants):
http://www.blackenterprise.com/2005/08/01/blacks-underrepresented-in-legal-field/
According to that link if they do make it into the field they are 'disproportionately represented in top jobs'
Clearly there is more to this than just a simple answer. If you want my opinion why this is the case for a number of jobs its this:
Education
High drop out rates + internal cultural bias + lack of family support + poorer performing schools = a higher statistical under representation in jobs requiring a higher education
Well, it matters because crime has very negative consequences.
I do think that black americans have contributed a lot to society, and have accomplished many great things. It is kinda hard to talk about this.
But I find the 800% disparity really high. And it does help give perspective on debates about say, racial profiling or racial disparities in the criminal justice system.
edit: I had never even known about this disparity until a year or two ago. If you had asked me before, I might have guessed 300% at most. But yeah it does appear to actually be old news to many folk. Tavis Smiley on his NPR show sorta hinted at this. And also, I believe crime in general has fallen by a lot since 1980
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Black culture is partly to blame, so is economics and these are certainly widely documented.
Our justice system is also largely to blame though and though that is not well documented and it is mainly a product of the War on Drugs.
see: http://www.npr.org/2012/01/16/145175694/legal-scholar-jim-crow-still-exists-in-america
all this leads to a huge disparity in opportunity black people have in society.
Our justice system is also largely to blame though and though that is not well documented and it is mainly a product of the War on Drugs.
see: http://www.npr.org/2012/01/16/145175694/legal-scholar-jim-crow-still-exists-in-america
all this leads to a huge disparity in opportunity black people have in society.
Lithium381
Lifer
- May 12, 2001
- 12,455
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Used against us? It's statistics, just numbers that clearly show facts
Because blacks typically don't get the right educatoin to rise to those levels. Although, I work in IT and one of the smartest guys in our office is black. But he's not african american. I suppose that gives him a leg up.
sometimes that's how they get in, denying someone more qualified a position. If they weren't to get the position the fire department police department whatever would lose funding due to "quota" rules. I dont' care who pulls me out of a burning building, i just want the most qualified person on the job, not someone who cried because they were so inept at a job and couldn't test well enough to get in but thought that they "deserved" it or were "entitled" to the job.[/quote]
But its okay, because in about 20 years, we'll be mostly gray anyway, lol.[/QUOTE]
ok
Lithium381
Lifer
- May 12, 2001
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that and many on assistance programs show very little respect for the "gifts" they receive, either in the form of rental assistance or food stamps
Matt1970
Lifer
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RedString
Senior member
- Feb 24, 2011
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I think it's because you got off topic and tried to derail thread into a "black people are mistreated" thread.
Not that they aren't misrepresented, but that isn't the topic.
edit: One thing I learned last sem. at school was that Hispanics are actually the most likely of anyone to pull themselves out of poverty. Obviously hispanics are also mis-representated to some extent, maybe a little more, maybe a little less - I don't know, but obviously are. Yet, they're able to excel and improve their condition very quickly. I'm a firm believer that a large part of the black communities problem lies in their philosophy as a culture. Yes, they have disadvantages, but so do others - and their work ethic, no excuses mentality helps balance these disadvantages. Now, I'm not saying having this mentality means you're guaranteed to do well, there IS luck involved. But statistically, as a whole - cultures with this mentality will do much better than one with a poor philosophy.
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werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
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We have a ton of affirmative action programs and a federal government aggressively prosecuting violations of equal opportunity - as we should. However, all that isn't going to help much until black culture (to the extent that such an animal can exist as an identifiable entity) becomes friendly to education and capitalism. It matters not how easy we make it for blacks to get into college if not enough are interested in going. Similarly, blacks will never achieve proportional representation in business when those blacks who do get degrees get them in sociology or black studies, or as long as blacks disproportionally go into government and not-for-profits (<cough> community organizer.)
At the senior level, there isn't much that can be done except over time. It takes a lot of time and education to make a senior level executive. Due to the systemic discrimination, blacks were unable to get this level of education and experience in anything like proportional numbers. We're probably looking at a generation at best before this evens out, and that's IF blacks adopt the same respect for education as whites. (If you REALLY want to make progress, adopt the attitudes of Asians. Match Tiger Moms with Black Panther Moms and blacks will be disproportionally represented at the higher levels compared to whites.)
The other big problem facing blacks is the absolute horrible state of inner city education, trapping millions of black kids in a system where getting a good education is almost impossible for even the most motivated child and truly impossible for the normally motivated child. We've proved beyond a reasonable doubt that throwing money at the situation is worse than useless, so your guess for how to fix that is as good as mine. Two things that strike me are black parents demanding an acceptable education system by holding their politicians accountable, and replacing mandatory school selection with vouchers and school choice so that at least those lucky inner city kids whose parents give a damn AND are willing to go the extra mile have a shot at a good education.
Combine these things with a turnaround in attitudes toward law enforcement among blacks and we can break the cycle of black crime. "Warn-a-brother" and "snitches in ditches" should NOT be acceptable among blacks. When a crime occurs in the 'hood and every black adult gives a full statement to police, then those black kids will learn that crime isn't acceptable. Right now far too many blacks are (perhaps unintentionally) teaching their children that the cops are the enemy.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
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Warning: Major over-simplifications coming! You have been warned!
Hispanics in my experience have an excellent work ethic. Immigrants have a great appreciation of economic freedom and opportunity. Many Hispanics are first to third generation Americans, so once they combine these two things with an appreciation for education Hispanics are going to be a major force and perhaps give non-Hispanic whites a much needed kick in the ass.
boochi
Senior member
- May 21, 2011
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Blacks on average have an IQ of 15 points less than whites. The majority of these violent crimes are probably committed by the segment that is legally or borderline retarded.
http://library.flawlesslogic.com/iq.htm
http://library.flawlesslogic.com/iq.htm
I have become quite progressive over the years, but it would be silly to try to overlook the toxic effects that the ghetto/thug culture have on the black community. Criminality and violence have become so prevalent that it has become part of the black male cultural identity, and is constantly reinforced by many prominent black musicians and athletes, people that black males look up to the most. The government absolutely should do everything possible to break these cycles of poverty that perpetuate this cultural cancer the black community faces, but the government can only do so much.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
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pcgeek11
Lifer
- Jun 12, 2005
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I read your post above and in my experience the bold part above is because most of the blacks have no desire to succeed in those positions. I do know several black people in those rolls and they do very well. I do work closely with Engineering and IT departments in a major worldwide corporation and they are a very diverse group. Most of the blacks that I have known that work in engineering, electronic technicians and IT are very good at what they do and receive promotions accordingly.
The ones that I have seen fail in those areas needed to fail as they were not good or even marginally capable and on top of that they didn't give a crap. That being said I have seen whites, hispanics, ... with the same issues. In most cases when a black fails they are more likely to claim racism as the cause rather than the real problem of their own shortcomings and that they sucked at their job. Not so much with the other races. It is funny that I have never met a German or Asian person with this problem... They are usually highly competent in technical professions. The biggest issue they usually have is arrogance.
Lithium381
Lifer
- May 12, 2001
- 12,455
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IQ is something that is natural, or is it soemthing that is learned in school? if they're 15IQ points back and not participating in school it's no wonder they don't get ahead . . .
Don Vito Corleone
Elite
- Feb 10, 2000
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IQ (at least as measured by modern IQ tests of adults) is a hybrid of general knowledge, logical ability and linguistic aptitude. While it is certainly true that people of African descent have generally lower IQs than whites (who in turn have lower IQs than Asians), it is less clear whether this actually equates to lesser intelligence. See, e.g., the discussion at http://www.skepdic.com/iqrace.html
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
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As someone who took a LOT of IQ tests in middle school, my opinion is that they are virtually useless in measuring raw intelligence. That would be less the case for adults, but even so I can recognize things that I can reason out because of what I've learned. I'd consequently be very skeptical about any wide-ranging statements of IQ within a culture. This is also indicated by the fact that IQ scores are rising. We certainly don't select for high IQ when having children, but we are all exposed to more and more information. If as I assume no IQ test can well measure raw intelligence, then that increased exposure would result in higher IQ scores.
One could probably make the case that sub-Saharan blacks probably do have lower IQs due to insufficient nutrition - I believe Maude Pember Reeves made that same case for Britain's pre-war poor - and perhaps because of culture and environment, although the latter might be disappearing due to the penetration into sub-Saharan countries of television, books and cheap computers. In any case, the same element of black culture that condemns education as "acting white" would also tend to discourage excellent in IQ tests.
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