people who kill themselves: ?

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SonnyDaze

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2004
6,867
3
76
Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy
Originally posted by: sao123
you can keep saying the same idiot things but...
I can say that christianity is true because the bible says so... it doesnt need verified by any outside source. all faith is blind, if you dont accept blind faith, then you have no faith at all.
THERE IS NO OTHER KIND OF FAITH EXCEPT BLIND FAITH.

I already answered the question about why christianity is the one true religion. christianity distinguishes itself because it is NOT mans attempt to establish a relationship with the creator, it was the creators attempt to establish a relationship with man. Any religion without a living savior is by definition FALSE. Thats the very fundamental definition. your question is like asking, why isnt the number 1 actually number 2. its number one because thats what it is. There is no evidence or explaination. Thats its very definition.

That is the reason i chose it.

[...]

if you intent that following blind faith = being a mindless indoctrinated fool... i dont care... because YES THATS WHAT I WANT TO BE.

This is the saddest thing I have read in weeks. I mourn for you.

Blessed is he who is rid of faith.


Oh shit, thread derailment just ahead.


 

Nik

Lifer
Jun 5, 2006
16,101
3
56
Originally posted by: sao123
you can keep saying the same idiot things but...
I can say that christianity is true because the bible says so... it doesnt need verified by any outside source. all faith is blind, if you dont accept blind faith, then you have no faith at all.
THERE IS NO OTHER KIND OF FAITH EXCEPT BLIND FAITH.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use." - Galileo Galilei

"What a queer thing is Christian salvation! Believing in firemen will not save a burning house; believing in doctors will not make one well, but believing in a savior saves men. Fudge!" -Lemuel Washburn

"Take from the church the miraculous, the supernatural, the incomprehensible, the unreasonable, the impossible, the unknowable, the absurd, and nothing but a vacuum remains." -Robert G. Ingersoll

"Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense." -Henry Mencken

I already answered the question about why christianity is the one true religion. christianity distinguishes itself because it is NOT mans attempt to establish a relationship with the creator, it was the creators attempt to establish a relationship with man. Any religion without a living savior is by definition FALSE. Thats the very fundamental definition. your question is like asking, why isnt the number 1 actually number 2. its number one because thats what it is. There is no evidence or explaination. Thats its very definition.

That is the reason i chose it.

re·li·gion /r?'l?d??n/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
Use religion in a Sentence
?noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.

?Idiom
9. get religion, Informal. a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.



So now you're re-writing the definition of religion so it fits your little book. Typical. Constantine rewrote your little Holy Book itself to fit, so looks like you're playing Little Christian to a T. :thumbsup:




the only one sticking their fingers in their ears going LALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU is you... because you fail to understand the very foundations of what religion is, why we have it, and why christianity is different.

Oh I understand it all right. I understand that you are absolutely incapable of reason. This little story book has you so wrapped up in hope of nothing reasonable that you're willing to discard all semblance of logic, reason, and common sense in exchange for something that you have no reason to believe other than "because I can" which is so ridiculously ignorant that, even having been raised in the church, I still have a hard time fathoming.

you keep insisting that something outside the bible or christianity needs to give it verification... that defies the intent behind blind faith.

Checks and balances ;) Do you understand the concept of circular reasoning? It's too bad your tiny brainwashed mind cannot understand such simple concepts.

if you intent that following blind faith = being a mindless indoctrinated fool... i dont care... because YES THATS WHAT I WANT TO BE.

You WANT to be ignorant? You CHOOSE to be stupid? Wow, it's not often you find someone if your ilk who's actually going to admit their faults. For that, I do applaud you.

If you want proof? heres your proof: go die. youll instantly have the proof you seek.

That doesn't sound very Christ-like, hypocrite. Jesus said that you aren't a Christian if you don't bear fruit and it doesn't look like you're bearing any fruit. You sure you're going to heaven, you miserable failure?
 

Demon-Xanth

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
20,551
2
81
They leave behind grieving families.

<-- had two cousins on opposite sides of his family commit suicide six months apart.
 

RESmonkey

Diamond Member
May 6, 2007
4,818
2
0
Originally posted by: sao123



you can keep saying the same idiot things but...
I can say that christianity is true because the bible says so... it doesnt need verified by any outside source. all faith is blind, if you dont accept blind faith, then you have no faith at all.
THERE IS NO OTHER KIND OF FAITH EXCEPT BLIND FAITH.

I already answered the question about why christianity is the one true religion. christianity distinguishes itself because it is NOT mans attempt to establish a relationship with the creator, it was the creators attempt to establish a relationship with man. Any religion without a living savior is by definition FALSE. Thats the very fundamental definition. your question is like asking, why isnt the number 1 actually number 2. its number one because thats what it is. There is no evidence or explaination. Thats its very definition.

That is the reason i chose it.


the only one sticking their fingers in their ears going LALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU is you... because you fail to understand the very foundations of what religion is, why we have it, and why christianity is different.

you keep insisting that something outside the bible or christianity needs to give it verification... that defies the intent behind blind faith.

if you intent that following blind faith = being a mindless indoctrinated fool... i dont care... because YES THATS WHAT I WANT TO BE.

If you want proof? heres your proof: go die. youll instantly have the proof you seek.

You're delusional. Looks like it's beyond help. Well, as you believe in christinaity, I hope you at least do some charitable work. I think that's the only good your religion brings.
 

actuarial

Platinum Member
Jan 22, 2009
2,814
0
71
Is it still blind faith if you have a REASON to choose one religion over another?

It's scary how close Sao's ramblings sound like someone who was just saved from a cult. They know ALL about blind faith!
 

mekon

Member
May 2, 2005
115
0
0
Well, where I come from there's Faith and Blind Faith. They are differentiated by their usage - Faith is primarily used for Religion or Mysticism. Blind Faith is used for someone who believes that a piano will not fall on their head based on no evidence whatsoever, and then refuses to change their mind or make a will when they happen to look up and see a large wooden ivory clad object.
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
Sounds like the OP watched "What Dreams May Come" and wanted to know if it was accurate.
 

CoinOperatedBoy

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2008
1,809
0
76
Originally posted by: mekon
Well, where I come from there's Faith and Blind Faith. They are differentiated by their usage - Faith is primarily used for Religion or Mysticism. Blind Faith is used for someone who believes that a piano will not fall on their head based on no evidence whatsoever, and then refuses to change their mind or make a will when they happen to look up and see a large wooden ivory clad object.

I think you have them backwards. The belief that you will not be crushed by a piano in the future is founded at least on your not having been crushed by one in the past, and perhaps the low probability that you will unknowingly walk beneath a suspended piano. Religion is based on no such trend, and relies instead on completely baseless assumptions.
 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: ric1287
jesus christ religious people frighten me.

Although, I do wish my mind was capable of picking one subject to ignore all logic with. Not being able to think for yourself various times through the day must be an interesting experience.

oh the irony of using the name jesus christ and then stating that opinion. :laugh:

Kinda what I was goin for :)
 

mekon

Member
May 2, 2005
115
0
0
Point 1. Not where I come from.
Point 2. I think you misinterpret what I'm saying. Religion (less so Mysticism) has a set of rules. A Faith is a belief in something that has not been contradicted to the point of becoming fact, including atheism to stretch the meaning to it's fullest. Blind Faith is a wilful disregard of facts that convenience an individuals belief in something, despite the fact that there may be evidence to the contrary.

The word "Blind" is in this phrase perhaps used incorrectly in terms of its actual meaning, but used to indicate an unwillingness to accept evidence or to think about a situation.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: ric1287
jesus christ religious people frighten me.

Although, I do wish my mind was capable of picking one subject to ignore all logic with. Not being able to think for yourself various times through the day must be an interesting experience.

oh the irony of using the name jesus christ and then stating that opinion. :laugh:

Kinda what I was goin for :)

well played then sir :D
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
6,628
7
81
Originally posted by: RESmonkey
Originally posted by: sao123
you can keep saying the same idiot things but...
I can say that christianity is true because the bible says so... it doesnt need verified by any outside source. all faith is blind, if you dont accept blind faith, then you have no faith at all.
THERE IS NO OTHER KIND OF FAITH EXCEPT BLIND FAITH.

I already answered the question about why christianity is the one true religion. christianity distinguishes itself because it is NOT mans attempt to establish a relationship with the creator, it was the creators attempt to establish a relationship with man. Any religion without a living savior is by definition FALSE. Thats the very fundamental definition. your question is like asking, why isnt the number 1 actually number 2. its number one because thats what it is. There is no evidence or explaination. Thats its very definition.

That is the reason i chose it.

the only one sticking their fingers in their ears going LALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU is you... because you fail to understand the very foundations of what religion is, why we have it, and why christianity is different.

you keep insisting that something outside the bible or christianity needs to give it verification... that defies the intent behind blind faith.

if you intent that following blind faith = being a mindless indoctrinated fool... i dont care... because YES THATS WHAT I WANT TO BE.

If you want proof? heres your proof: go die. youll instantly have the proof you seek.

You're delusional. Looks like it's beyond help. Well, as you believe in christinaity, I hope you at least do some charitable work. I think that's the only good your religion brings.

I agree, and I'm a Christian (in the sense that I believe the Bible). Faith doesn't have to be blind. There are certainly reasons that I believe in the Bible, and it's far from blind faith. However, those reasons cannot be 100% proven and therefore there will always be a faith element to it. Not only is sao123 being delusional, but he's certainly not exercising love and the desire to make others followers of Jesus Christ, which are things mentioned time after time after time in the Bible. If he does believe it with blind faith, then he shouldn't be telling people to die and then they'll get their proof. I don't think that's what Jesus would say.

I have actually known many Christians who blindly follow whatever their pastor says without using their own brain to read the Bible and interpret it. This is where you get the whack-jobs who bomb abortion clinics, think that all we have to do is pray instead of seeking after medicine to cure our illnesses, and stand on street corners with signs that say, "You'll burn in hell!!!"

Edit: I changed some wording, because I don't necessarily follow the religion of Christianity as much as I believe in the Bible and go to church. That might not sound like an important distinction, but it is. There are things in the church and religion with which I don't agree, and I question everything by going to my source, which is the Bible. This includes anything my church, pastor, etc. might say.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
6,063
0
0
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
An interesting theological and/or ethical question. Unfortunately I'm not exactly qualified to answer it as I'm not really sure how to frame my argument. I am Catholic and as many of you know the church has some very detailed positions about it. I can't say I agree with some of what they say though. I've heard it said that 'suicide is how people die from depression'. However, some people do commit suicide for selfish/sinful reasons. I don't think that there is a blanket answer to the question. I suppose I would say that it depends on how much a person is in control of their mental faculties. The mentally ill probably won't burn, but the 'I'm not going to prison' crowd just might. It really depends on the circumstances.

/flamesuit

lolreligion

Ummm....tell us how you really feel?

It's refreshing to see someone claiming to be Catholic and not automatically jumping to the "suicide is sin and everyone who does it will go to hell" garbage.

However, even though nobody knows what happens after death because it's not observable, measurable, or repeatable, I think it's funny that people resort to conjuring up magic invisible zombie deities and believing it without a shred of evidence to try explaining the unknown.

its refreshing to think that some guy names moses started a religion which has lasted for overs 6 thousand years, furthermore, it still has more followeers worldwide than any other. Finally it has a significant nonzero chance that it is actually true.

Other than slinging mudd towards the people who believe that which has not nor will be proven untrue...what the hell have or will you ever accomplish in your lifetime that could even begin to compare.

Well, I can answer for myself with "I accomplished something by NOT inventing a stupid fucking religion".

How exactly can you just say it has a nonzero chance of being true? What the hell kind of method of research and repeatable experimentation did you use to get the data and evidence that can back up this claim? WHERE'S the data and evidence??

... Or did you just shit some words out and plaster them on the internet? <3

If you think religion needs proof in order that you should believe in it, you have no understanding of religion at all.

What makes you think I don't know that religion requires no proof to believe in it? That's exactly the problem. If these people kept it to themselves, that would be fine, but they don't. They run the world. They get into office. They form governments, laws, ideas, and societies based on religious values, and that's fucking horrendous. It's a waste of human potential to allow baseless beliefs in myths to run the lives of others. Creating a religion is not anything to look up to, it's something to look down on, as is believing in crap that has no proof. You want to know what I do that compares? Nothing, because I'm useful and help progress in the human species instead of pushing mythology and faith. Try for experimentation on food/agriculture for the masses, astrophysics, or fusion technology. Shit, get into social issues and help people get out of feeling helpless in society, instead of teaching them that "gods" run their lives. Not even MORALS come from religion, morals come from humans being social animals who understand that treating each-other nicely will benefit the whole, and in turn, benefit themselves and their loved ones.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,653
205
106
Originally posted by: kalrith
Originally posted by: RESmonkey
Originally posted by: sao123
you can keep saying the same idiot things but...
I can say that christianity is true because the bible says so... it doesnt need verified by any outside source. all faith is blind, if you dont accept blind faith, then you have no faith at all.
THERE IS NO OTHER KIND OF FAITH EXCEPT BLIND FAITH.

I already answered the question about why christianity is the one true religion. christianity distinguishes itself because it is NOT mans attempt to establish a relationship with the creator, it was the creators attempt to establish a relationship with man. Any religion without a living savior is by definition FALSE. Thats the very fundamental definition. your question is like asking, why isnt the number 1 actually number 2. its number one because thats what it is. There is no evidence or explaination. Thats its very definition.

That is the reason i chose it.

the only one sticking their fingers in their ears going LALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU is you... because you fail to understand the very foundations of what religion is, why we have it, and why christianity is different.

you keep insisting that something outside the bible or christianity needs to give it verification... that defies the intent behind blind faith.

if you intent that following blind faith = being a mindless indoctrinated fool... i dont care... because YES THATS WHAT I WANT TO BE.

If you want proof? heres your proof: go die. youll instantly have the proof you seek.

You're delusional. Looks like it's beyond help. Well, as you believe in christinaity, I hope you at least do some charitable work. I think that's the only good your religion brings.

I agree, and I'm a Christian (in the sense that I believe the Bible). Faith doesn't have to be blind. There are certainly reasons that I believe in the Bible, and it's far from blind faith. However, those reasons cannot be 100% proven and therefore there will always be a faith element to it. Not only is sao123 being delusional, but he's certainly not exercising love and the desire to make others followers of Jesus Christ, which are things mentioned time after time after time in the Bible. If he does believe it with blind faith, then he shouldn't be telling people to die and then they'll get their proof. I don't think that's what Jesus would say.

I have actually known many Christians who blindly follow whatever their pastor says without using their own brain to read the Bible and interpret it. This is where you get the whack-jobs who bomb abortion clinics, think that all we have to do is pray instead of seeking after medicine to cure our illnesses, and stand on street corners with signs that say, "You'll burn in hell!!!"

Edit: I changed some wording, because I don't necessarily follow the religion of Christianity as much as I believe in the Bible and go to church. That might not sound like an important distinction, but it is. There are things in the church and religion with which I don't agree, and I question everything by going to my source, which is the Bible. This includes anything my church, pastor, etc. might say.

im not delusional. My last comment probably came out a lot worse than i meant it.
It was not meant to be the equivolent of a "go to hell" of "fvck off", I proposed a repeatable verfiiable scientific experiment to answer the question, with 3 possible outcomes:
a) you die and cease to exist
b) you die and wake up in heaven/hell
c) you die and wake up a cow

I'm neither an abortion clinic bomber, and im not against medicine...but I do take the bible very literally. Genesis, Adam, Eve, Moses, it all happened exactly as its written. I believe the 2nd coming and all the bad things of revelation are forthcoming. I'm not afraid to tell people the truth that unless they repent, they will go to hell.

oh and... nothing of this debate is going to change anyone on this boards from a nonchristian into a christian. you cant convert those who dont wish to be converted.
 

sao123

Lifer
May 27, 2002
12,653
205
106
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: manowar821
Originally posted by: sao123
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: MovingTarget
An interesting theological and/or ethical question. Unfortunately I'm not exactly qualified to answer it as I'm not really sure how to frame my argument. I am Catholic and as many of you know the church has some very detailed positions about it. I can't say I agree with some of what they say though. I've heard it said that 'suicide is how people die from depression'. However, some people do commit suicide for selfish/sinful reasons. I don't think that there is a blanket answer to the question. I suppose I would say that it depends on how much a person is in control of their mental faculties. The mentally ill probably won't burn, but the 'I'm not going to prison' crowd just might. It really depends on the circumstances.

/flamesuit

lolreligion

Ummm....tell us how you really feel?

It's refreshing to see someone claiming to be Catholic and not automatically jumping to the "suicide is sin and everyone who does it will go to hell" garbage.

However, even though nobody knows what happens after death because it's not observable, measurable, or repeatable, I think it's funny that people resort to conjuring up magic invisible zombie deities and believing it without a shred of evidence to try explaining the unknown.

its refreshing to think that some guy names moses started a religion which has lasted for overs 6 thousand years, furthermore, it still has more followeers worldwide than any other. Finally it has a significant nonzero chance that it is actually true.

Other than slinging mudd towards the people who believe that which has not nor will be proven untrue...what the hell have or will you ever accomplish in your lifetime that could even begin to compare.

Well, I can answer for myself with "I accomplished something by NOT inventing a stupid fucking religion".

How exactly can you just say it has a nonzero chance of being true? What the hell kind of method of research and repeatable experimentation did you use to get the data and evidence that can back up this claim? WHERE'S the data and evidence??

... Or did you just shit some words out and plaster them on the internet? <3

If you think religion needs proof in order that you should believe in it, you have no understanding of religion at all.

What makes you think I don't know that religion requires no proof to believe in it? That's exactly the problem. If these people kept it to themselves, that would be fine, but they don't. They run the world. They get into office. They form governments, laws, ideas, and societies based on religious values, and that's fucking horrendous. It's a waste of human potential to allow baseless beliefs in myths to run the lives of others. Creating a religion is not anything to look up to, it's something to look down on, as is believing in crap that has no proof. You want to know what I do that compares? Nothing, because I'm useful and help progress in the human species instead of pushing mythology and faith. Try for experimentation on food/agriculture for the masses, astrophysics, or fusion technology. Shit, get into social issues and help people get out of feeling helpless in society, instead of teaching them that "gods" run their lives. Not even MORALS come from religion, morals come from humans being social animals who understand that treating each-other nicely will benefit the whole, and in turn, benefit themselves and their loved ones.

well lets see... when isreal sinned, they got ther butts kicked and taken into captivity to be slaves by other empires.

The religous are trying to prevent that from happening to this country. It was founded on religion, and needs to stay that way, through laws and governing. Eventually this country is going to make God angry enough, that we will lose his blessing and become a nonfactor in this world or even wipe it off this earth totally. Every religion has a commission to increase in numbers, they are doing EXACTLY what they are supposed to.

 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: sao123
well lets see... when isreal sinned, they got ther butts kicked and taken into captivity to be slaves by other empires.

The religous are trying to prevent that from happening to this country. It was founded on religion, and needs to stay that way, through laws and governing. Eventually this country is going to make God angry enough, that we will lose his blessing and become a nonfactor in this world or even wipe it off this earth totally. Every religion has a commission to increase in numbers, they are doing EXACTLY what they are supposed to.

hahahaha, now THAT sounds like something I want to be a part of!!! C'mon everyone