people who kill themselves: ?

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: MovingTarget


Wow, you fail. Have you ever actually studied theology?

Have you ever studied homeopathy? Have you ever studied chiropractic? Have you ever studied alchemy?

Why would I waste my time studying a flawed belief system? I'm sure they spent a lot of time trying to re-adjust their quackery to fall in line with science but it's still nonsense nonetheless.

Do you not see the problem in calling something flawed while admitting you have not "wasted [your] time" learning anything about it?

The entire concept is flawed; there is no point in learning about the intricate details of something that you already know is false.

When I was in nursery school and I figured out that Santa Claus was fake I had the rest of the class defending their belief to me. The vast majority disagreed with me but I knew that my belief was correct. As I matured and figured out that religion is a scam I once again ran into the same problems. I don't expect people to figure it out on their own and agree with me. I think the problem is one of intellectual development and comprehension ability. To most people, it may be beyond the threshold of comprehension to understand concepts which others find easy to understand.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Sea Moose
people who kill themselves are selfish and should talk to a shrink

(who will tell them to STOP IT)

They're selfish? Who is the selfish one- the person who endures constant pain and wants it to end, or the person who wants that other person to exist for their own personal benefit?

 

[cKGunslinger]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Sea Moose
people who kill themselves are selfish and should talk to a shrink

(who will tell them to STOP IT)

They're selfish? Who is the selfish one- the person who endures constant pain and wants it to end, or the person who wants that other person to exist for their own personal benefit?

Sorry, suicide is almost always selfish. Sure, if you plan your own funeral and take care of as much as possible, then discretely end it, it's slightly *less* selfish. But typically, the dick will blow out his brains in his own bathroom, leaving his family to morn, plan his funeral, have the mess cleaned up, then have to remember that that image.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Perknose
Beliefs of every stripe are just that, beliefs, based on suppostions that can't be PROVEN, which is ispo facto why they are called beliefs and not facts.

You are making the incorrect assumption that beliefs cannot be proven.

No, I am not.

When a belief is proved factually true, it is no longer merely a belief, it passes into the realm of provable fact.

But I am making the distinction between those ultimately unprovable religious beliefs and proven facts; between the realm of emotion/intuition/religion and the realm of logic.

You can't conclusively PROVE the existence or non-existence of God, no matter how much seemingly logical evidence you pile up for or against. YOU CAN'T, which is why such questions will stubbornly remain in the realm of belief.

Logic depends on an accumulation of facts to reach an irrefutable conclusion. Belief does not. Belief is an act of faith. That's why they call religion "faith." It's what people believe, bur really can't be argued conclusively with logic or facts. That's why you can't argue someone our of their belief.

But no matter what any one of us believes about the existence or non-existence of an afterlife, no one of us knows, and no one of us can conclusively prove what we believe with logic, pro or con.

That is why such things remain in the realm of religion/belief, and why it is so frustrating for those operating exclusively in the realm of logic to argue such things with those bound to their . . . beliefs.

 

[Farang]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: MovingTarget


Wow, you fail. Have you ever actually studied theology?

Have you ever studied homeopathy? Have you ever studied chiropractic? Have you ever studied alchemy?

Why would I waste my time studying a flawed belief system? I'm sure they spent a lot of time trying to re-adjust their quackery to fall in line with science but it's still nonsense nonetheless.

Do you not see the problem in calling something flawed while admitting you have not "wasted [your] time" learning anything about it?

The entire concept is flawed; there is no point in learning about the intricate details of something that you already know is false.

When I was in nursery school and I figured out that Santa Claus was fake I had the rest of the class defending their belief to me. The vast majority disagreed with me but I knew that my belief was correct. As I matured and figured out that religion is a scam I once again ran into the same problems. I don't expect people to figure it out on their own and agree with me. I think the problem is one of intellectual development and comprehension ability. To most people, it may be beyond the threshold of comprehension to understand concepts which others find easy to understand.

The entire concept isn't flawed, religion serves a useful function in society. Even if you don't believe the stories of the Bible literally happened, most studies of ethics and morality have come out of organized religion. You don't have to be religious to see the value of studying religion, and you don't have to believe in Jesus as your savior to get some value out of the Bible.

The problem with your reasoning is that you think the intricate details only have value if the overall conclusion is true.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: MovingTarget


Wow, you fail. Have you ever actually studied theology?

Have you ever studied homeopathy? Have you ever studied chiropractic? Have you ever studied alchemy?

Why would I waste my time studying a flawed belief system? I'm sure they spent a lot of time trying to re-adjust their quackery to fall in line with science but it's still nonsense nonetheless.

Do you not see the problem in calling something flawed while admitting you have not "wasted [your] time" learning anything about it?

I've been through seminary. It's flawed.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Farang

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: MovingTarget


Wow, you fail. Have you ever actually studied theology?

Have you ever studied homeopathy? Have you ever studied chiropractic? Have you ever studied alchemy?

Why would I waste my time studying a flawed belief system? I'm sure they spent a lot of time trying to re-adjust their quackery to fall in line with science but it's still nonsense nonetheless.

Do you not see the problem in calling something flawed while admitting you have not "wasted [your] time" learning anything about it?

The entire concept is flawed; there is no point in learning about the intricate details of something that you already know is false.

When I was in nursery school and I figured out that Santa Claus was fake I had the rest of the class defending their belief to me. The vast majority disagreed with me but I knew that my belief was correct. As I matured and figured out that religion is a scam I once again ran into the same problems. I don't expect people to figure it out on their own and agree with me. I think the problem is one of intellectual development and comprehension ability. To most people, it may be beyond the threshold of comprehension to understand concepts which others find easy to understand.

The entire concept isn't flawed, religion serves a useful function in society. Even if you don't believe the stories of the Bible literally happened, most studies of ethics and morality have come out of organized religion. You don't have to be religious to see the value of studying religion, and you don't have to believe in Jesus as your savior to get some value out of the Bible.

The problem with your reasoning is that you think the intricate details only have value if the overall conclusion is true.

There are tons of religions in the world. What makes Christianity the only one teaching morals and ethics? What makes religion at all necessary for teaching or learning morals or ethics?

Let's imagine for a moment that no religion in the world is true (heh ...), that all the books and "holy" writings were just great works of story telling by human beings that have evolved over time until the then-current-version was written down and somewhat holding to that version until the invention of the printing press, etc.

It's still written by man. It's still ideas conceived by man. Man would then be completely capable of determining ethics and morality on his own, without the need for religion to begin with.

 

[FelixDeCat]

This one is easy - thou shalt not kill (including yourself). Maybe there is hell to pay, or maybe all circumstances are considered and you wind up in purgatory a thousand years, waiting to be purified for entry into heaven. I dont know.

Of course living after a botched suicide attempt (with no jaw, no eyes or much of a face) is rather unpleasant, but please do focus on the afterlife because its definately eternal and should weigh heavily on a decision.

 

[mattpegher]

Originally posted by: Farang

The entire concept isn't flawed, religion serves a useful function in society. Even if you don't believe the stories of the Bible literally happened, most studies of ethics and morality have come out of organized religion. You don't have to be religious to see the value of studying religion, and you don't have to believe in Jesus as your savior to get some value out of the Bible

This is one of the problems that I have considered especially with regard to the raising of my children. It is difficult to teach morality and ethic without some framework. I was raised catholic but have modified my belief structure over the last 30 years and find organized religion to be too full of malignant manipulation of the concepts of good and evil, morals and ethics. The place where organized religions get it right is in the story driven teaching of concepts. With my children, I have used classic judeochristian stories, and references to teach them, but I have had to improvise, making up my own stories to illustrate points. I have a limited knowledge of other religions scriptures and would readily use these if I felt that they taught the salient points.

Just as mathmatics and physics have matured over the existence of humanity, so has religion/theology/ethics. IMHO current religions are just another step in the process and not the end result.

I do not pretend to have irrefutable proof re the existance or abscence of a god/supreme being or of a supracorporial existence of sentient beings, but I feel that this does not preclude the use of religion and or ethical teaching.

 

[Regs]

Originally posted by: Nik

There are tons of religions in the world. What makes Christianity the only one teaching morals and ethics?

The bible, holy scriptures, books and so forth are only human interpretations of god?s word. Interpretation caused many religions to sprout with different ideas of what "god" wants. A human can be a harmless, loving, respectful creature with its own ideas, own beliefs, and own motivations when left alone. The human race however can be a dangerous, fearful, paranoid monster when each idea or belief is comingled with each other fighting over scarce resources.


If you want my opinion, or my take on gods true mission, is that one day we all would be one religion with the same goals, ideas, and motivations. A day when we no longer need saviors, apostles, or other symbols and beacons of faith. Rip the church walls down I'd say.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: Regs

Originally posted by: Nik

There are tons of religions in the world. What makes Christianity the only one teaching morals and ethics?

The bible, holy scriptures, books and so forth are only human interpretations of god?s word. Interpretation caused many religions to sprout with different ideas of what "god" wants. A human can be a harmless, loving, respectful creature with its own ideas, own beliefs, and own motivations when left alone. The human race however can be a dangerous, fearful, paranoid monster when each idea or belief is comingled with each other fighting over scarce resources.

Sigh. I understand that. -_-

These are all very, very simple concepts. I'm leading him, though. I'm socially engineering him to a certain point

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Regs

Originally posted by: Nik

There are tons of religions in the world. What makes Christianity the only one teaching morals and ethics?

The bible, holy scriptures, books and so forth are only human interpretations of god?s word. Interpretation caused many religions to sprout with different ideas of what "god" wants. A human can be a harmless, loving, respectful creature with its own ideas, own beliefs, and own motivations when left alone. The human race however can be a dangerous, fearful, paranoid monster when each idea or belief is comingled with each other fighting over scarce resources.

Sigh. I understand that. -_-

These are all very, very simple concepts. I'm leading him, though. I'm socially engineering him to a certain point

and failing miserably.

religion is not simply how to be a good person... while it includes that as a byproduct, it is much more. its not about ethics or morals. Man can come up with good behavior, man can invent the golden rule and all of its applications. but thats not enough... Man cannot save you. he cannot grant you an afterlife of eternal reward, nor he can prevent you from eternal punishment.

many religions have come and gone, many are the worship of stone idols, many invole the worship of stone idols, mother earth, money/power, and even self. all of which are mans attempt to find and contact god.

but only one has has a savior come to the earth to attempt to contact man. Jesus of Nazareth came, performed many miracles, was crucified, raised again, and then returned to heaven to come again some day. Thats what makes it the one true religion.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: sao123
and failing miserably.

religion is not simply how to be a good person... while it includes that as a byproduct, it is much more. its not about ethics or morals. Man can come up with good behavior, man can invent the golden rule and all of its applications. but thats not enough... Man cannot save you. he cannot grant you an afterlife of eternal reward, nor he can prevent you from eternal punishment.

Back to my original question, what makes you believe that an afterlife exists? What makes you believe that humans even have a soul? What makes you believe, other than blind faith which is a ridiculous problem in religion, that god exists?

many religions have come and gone, many are the worship of stone idols, many invole the worship of stone idols, mother earth, money/power, and even self. all of which are mans attempt to find and contact god.

Way to avoid the question. What makes you believe Christianity is any more "true" than any other religion? You can't use the Bible, in case you're going to be that short-sighted, either. Circular reasoning is silly.

"I believe this rock is 100,000 years old!"
"How do you know?"
"Why, it has a 100,000 year old bone in it."
"How do you know the bone is 100,000 years old?"
"Of course, because it is embedded in this 100,000 year old rock!"

but only one has has a savior come to the earth to attempt to contact man. Jesus of Nazareth came, performed many miracles, was crucified, raised again, and then returned to heaven to come again some day. Thats what makes it the one true religion.

What makes you believe Jesus, while having existed, was divine? Are there evidences of his miracles? Is there any evidence anywhere to suggest anything other than Jesus being a normal man with exceptional leadership skills walking the earth and being crucified at 33?

You're saying that Christianity is the "one true religion" based on things no one can ever give proof for. Just because you say it or just because a book of fairy tales says so doesn't make it true.

Christianity, like any other religion, is simply "the opiate of the masses" in that it gives people hope and gives them a reason to bother being productive members of a certain society. Beyond that, religion is nothing.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: sao123
and failing miserably.

religion is not simply how to be a good person... while it includes that as a byproduct, it is much more. its not about ethics or morals. Man can come up with good behavior, man can invent the golden rule and all of its applications. but thats not enough... Man cannot save you. he cannot grant you an afterlife of eternal reward, nor he can prevent you from eternal punishment.

Back to my original question, what makes you believe that an afterlife exists? What makes you believe that humans even have a soul? What makes you believe, other than blind faith which is a ridiculous problem in religion, that god exists?

many religions have come and gone, many are the worship of stone idols, many invole the worship of stone idols, mother earth, money/power, and even self. all of which are mans attempt to find and contact god.

Way to avoid the question. What makes you believe Christianity is any more "true" than any other religion? You can't use the Bible, in case you're going to be that short-sighted, either. Circular reasoning is silly.

"I believe this rock is 100,000 years old!"
"How do you know?"
"Why, it has a 100,000 year old bone in it."
"How do you know the bone is 100,000 years old?"
"Of course, because it is embedded in this 100,000 year old rock!"

but only one has has a savior come to the earth to attempt to contact man. Jesus of Nazareth came, performed many miracles, was crucified, raised again, and then returned to heaven to come again some day. Thats what makes it the one true religion.

What makes you believe Jesus, while having existed, was divine? Are there evidences of his miracles? Is there any evidence anywhere to suggest anything other than Jesus being a normal man with exceptional leadership skills walking the earth and being crucified at 33?

You're saying that Christianity is the "one true religion" based on things no one can ever give proof for. Just because you say it or just because a book of fairy tales says so doesn't make it true.

Christianity, like any other religion, is simply "the opiate of the masses" in that it gives people hope and gives them a reason to bother being productive members of a certain society. Beyond that, religion is nothing.

again you are stuck on evidence...

blind faith isnt the problem with religion, its the foundation of it.
faith is the substance of all that is good, not all that is evil.

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

 

[SillyOReilly]

Originally posted by: JohnCU
what do you think happens to them?

Let's all rejoice in your getting stoned and asking something because you were raised into some ridiculous religion that fed you some BS about suicide.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: sao123
again you are stuck on evidence...

blind faith isnt the problem with religion, its the foundation of it.
faith is the substance of all that is good, not all that is evil.

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Again, you completely avoid the issue by vomitting boring old Christian trite. Good job.

Faith and blind faith are two different things.

I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

You have faith in something completely unfounded.

my faith > your drivvel

Now answer my question. What makes you believe that the Bible and the stories in it are anything other than a fairy tale? What drives YOU to choose Christianity over any other religion?

You said that Christianity is the one true religion because Christ "came to earth" and all that. How do you explain religions that don't need a savior? You're saying pegan worship of nature isn't a real religion because a tree wasn't crucified?

Do you realize how ridiculous your circular reasoning is? You can't say that Christianity is true because the Bible says so. See my example above.

Now, are you going to answer my questions or are you going to prove yourself yet another mindless brainwashed Christian zombie and bury your fucking thick-skulled head in the sand, plug your ears, and go LALALALALALALALALA NOT LISTENING LALALALALALA CHRISTIANITY JESUS JESUS LALALALALA?

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: sao123
again you are stuck on evidence...

blind faith isnt the problem with religion, its the foundation of it.
faith is the substance of all that is good, not all that is evil.

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Again, you completely avoid the issue by vomitting boring old Christian trite. Good job.

Faith and blind faith are two different things.

I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

You have faith in something completely unfounded.

my faith > your drivvel

Now answer my question. What makes you believe that the Bible and the stories in it are anything other than a fairy tale? What drives YOU to choose Christianity over any other religion?

You said that Christianity is the one true religion because Christ "came to earth" and all that. How do you explain religions that don't need a savior? You're saying pegan worship of nature isn't a real religion because a tree wasn't crucified?

Do you realize how ridiculous your circular reasoning is? You can't say that Christianity is true because the Bible says so. See my example above.

Now, are you going to answer my questions or are you going to prove yourself yet another mindless brainwashed Christian zombie and bury your fucking thick-skulled head in the sand, plug your ears, and go LALALALALALALALALA NOT LISTENING LALALALALALA CHRISTIANITY JESUS JESUS LALALALALA?

you can keep saying the same idiot things but...
I can say that christianity is true because the bible says so... it doesnt need verified by any outside source. all faith is blind, if you dont accept blind faith, then you have no faith at all.
THERE IS NO OTHER KIND OF FAITH EXCEPT BLIND FAITH.

I already answered the question about why christianity is the one true religion. christianity distinguishes itself because it is NOT mans attempt to establish a relationship with the creator, it was the creators attempt to establish a relationship with man. Any religion without a living savior is by definition FALSE. Thats the very fundamental definition. your question is like asking, why isnt the number 1 actually number 2. its number one because thats what it is. There is no evidence or explaination. Thats its very definition.

That is the reason i chose it.


the only one sticking their fingers in their ears going LALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU is you... because you fail to understand the very foundations of what religion is, why we have it, and why christianity is different.

you keep insisting that something outside the bible or christianity needs to give it verification... that defies the intent behind blind faith.

if you intent that following blind faith = being a mindless indoctrinated fool... i dont care... because YES THATS WHAT I WANT TO BE.

If you want proof? heres your proof: go die. youll instantly have the proof you seek.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Perknose

No, I am not.

When a belief is proved factually true, it is no longer merely a belief, it passes into the realm of provable fact.

Who gets to make the determination whether the evidence presented constitutes real "proof"?

For instance, many people refuse to believe that the Earth is any older than 6000 years old. To most people, the current scientific evidence stating that it's billions of years old is legitimate "proof". But others don't believe in that scientific evidence. To them it's not proof at all.

And when you really think about it, isn't a fact a fact regardless of whether people know it yet or not? Back in the middle ages, the fact was that the Earth orbited the Sun. The fact that the majority of the population of Earth didn't believe it didn't really change that fact.

 

[RESmonkey]

LOL RELIGION

 

[RESmonkey]

I realized just now that it's no use trying to argue against a religious person. The part where "faith" overtakes logic corrupts the argument.

If you're trying to convince someone to drop religion, especially if this person is a senior/parent, drop it. Most likely, they're grown up with religion and it's no good to try to break down their fundamental beliefs.












That said, this is an internet forum. FLAME ON. go go go.

 

[ric1287]

jesus christ religious people frighten me.

Although, I do wish my mind was capable of picking one subject to ignore all logic with. Not being able to think for yourself various times through the day must be an interesting experience.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: ric1287
jesus christ religious people frighten me.

Although, I do wish my mind was capable of picking one subject to ignore all logic with. Not being able to think for yourself various times through the day must be an interesting experience.

oh the irony of using the name jesus christ and then stating that opinion. :laugh:

 

[RESmonkey]

Religious people = delusional sheep

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Originally posted by: sao123
you can keep saying the same idiot things but...
I can say that christianity is true because the bible says so... it doesnt need verified by any outside source. all faith is blind, if you dont accept blind faith, then you have no faith at all.
THERE IS NO OTHER KIND OF FAITH EXCEPT BLIND FAITH.

I already answered the question about why christianity is the one true religion. christianity distinguishes itself because it is NOT mans attempt to establish a relationship with the creator, it was the creators attempt to establish a relationship with man. Any religion without a living savior is by definition FALSE. Thats the very fundamental definition. your question is like asking, why isnt the number 1 actually number 2. its number one because thats what it is. There is no evidence or explaination. Thats its very definition.

That is the reason i chose it.

[...]

if you intent that following blind faith = being a mindless indoctrinated fool... i dont care... because YES THATS WHAT I WANT TO BE.

This is the saddest thing I have read in weeks. I mourn for you.

Blessed is he who is rid of faith.

 

[rh71]

they show how selfish they are