People should work for what they have

[Munky]

You've never heard of Credit Cards? Shocker.

That's the fallacy of feeling like you own something when you really don't. If you buy something on credit, you may "have" it, but you still own money on it, so it's not technically "yours." Maybe we wouldn't have so many people sinking in debt if they thought this out.

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

That's the fallacy of feeling like you own something when you really don't. If you buy something on credit, you may "have" it, but you still own money on it, so it's not technically "yours." Maybe we wouldn't have so many people sinking in debt if they thought this out.

I just saw an article in People magazine about this couple who had $11 million in debt and were filing for bankruptcy. It is disgusting that someone could get that in debt using credit cards and loans.

Who of you out there really "own" things? I do own one of my cars, but my other one is financed through a bank (very low interest so not worth paying off), so they own it. House? Yep, I have one, but I don't own it...the bank does. I do own my boat, furniture, TV, electronics, etc.

I don't own health insurance, I have it...as soon as I stop paying it goes away.

The list for me is pretty short because I am a high earner and don't need much in the way of loans...but I know of plenty of people who rent-to-own their furniture, have car loans, motorcycle loans, 4-wheeler loans, landscaping loans, boat loans, computer loans...and they have revolving debt in the $10,000 range, so technically they don't own all that shit they financed like their TV and PS3.

I think credit cards should be for people who CAN afford it. My business credit card limit is around $20,000...but I pull in more than that each month, so it is a good bet that I'll pay it. It is like pulling teeth trying to get the limit upped because they make no money off of me as I pay the entire balance due each month.

Meanwhile there are people who make $15,000/year with $5,000 credit card limits. I'm sorry, but those people shouldn't have that kind of credit. Have we lost what the meaning of credit is?

I say we need a debtors prison. No more personal bankruptcy without a long prison sentence. There is no reason the aforementioned couple should have $11 million in debt and nothing to show for it and no way to pay creditors back.

 

[NesuD]

A very common theme I hear from people, and something I also believe in, is that people should work to earn what they have. I believe everyone should be guaranteed food, shelter, and minimal health care, but if they want a standard of living any higher than that it should come due to their working and contributing to society. I think most people agree with this, but it seems quite a lot of people rant about how all the freeloaders are ruining this country. I'm not debating if that is true or not, just pointing out people bring it up all the time. So, my question is, what about inheriting wealth from your parents? Or investing money in the stock market. It seems like if you believe people should earn their place in society they should not be able to get wealth in these ways. For example, I am 29, lets say my parents die and left me enough money so I didn't have to work ever again. Is that fair? Would I be freeloading off of society, specifically my parents hard work?

I'm not looking at this from an economic point of view. I agree investing money in the stock market is good for the economy and you should benefit from the risk. I also don't think all your possessions should be confiscated when you die. I am just looking at it from a moral point of view. If we place such high value on hard work, being a self-made man, contributing to society, how do you justify these methods of accumulating wealth?

Thanks for reading.

Personally my problem isn't with people not earning their place but rather with the freeloaders telling me I am responsible for bankrolling their place for them. Anyone that is getting ahead by any legal means without sending the taxpayer the bills is OK with me. This whole concept of redistribution of wealth is far to prone to corruption to even begin to actually work. Seriously when something like 40+% of the population pays zero income taxes how can that actually work.

 

[Red Dawn]

then they discovered that they can get these things without a job.
it's called food stamps and section 8 housing.

welfare checks were used to buy iphones and 24" rims for the escalade.

One can actually afford and Eacalade,24" rims for it, and an IPhone on Welfare,Food Stamps and Section 8?

 

[Apple Of Sodom]

One can actually afford and Eacalade,24" rims for it, and an IPhone on Welfare,Food Stamps and Section 8?

Haven't you ever seen the video of Ol' Dirty Bastard (famous rapper from Wu-Tang Clan) pulling up in his limo to collect his foodstamps? When asked why he said it was free money, why not take it?

 

[JS80]

It's called moronism.

Hell, if Paris Hilton wants to blow her dads fortune on sunglasses and chiuahua's, then well, maybe I should be in the sunglasses and chiuahahas business.

Plus she is probably cash flow positive and generates more wealth than this whole board combined.

 

[Patranus]

Why work for what you have when you can vote to get stuff for free?

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh. When it comes to inherited wealth, Righties avoid the concept they often flaunt in the face of the have-nots on a regular basis.

What concept is that? The concept of personal responsibility, of course, and the whole idea of individualistic meritocracy along with it.

Inheritors of vast wealth have done exactly what to earn it? Put up with the old man? Lots of people had to do that for a lot less...

When assets are sold to pay estate taxes, the people acquiring them actually earned the money to buy them. Imagine that. And they're likely to create growth with them, because they already know how to do that, and how to handle the power that comes with it.

Much of the American conceptualization of wealth is an anachronism, based on the mythos of the frontier, on the idea of infinite wealth there for the taking. The frontier closed over 100 years ago, but Righties and Libertarians don't seem to realize that...

 

[blackangst1]

Heh. When it comes to inherited wealth, Righties avoid the concept they often flaunt in the face of the have-nots on a regular basis.

What concept is that? The concept of personal responsibility, of course, and the whole idea of individualistic meritocracy along with it.

And what is the responsibility with inherited wealth? To "do good for the common man"? A person who inherits millions, or even billions, has the same responsiblity to do with his/her money everyone else does: what THEY see fit.

Inheritors of vast wealth have done exactly what to earn it? Put up with the old man? Lots of people had to do that for a lot less...

And?

When assets are sold to pay estate taxes, the people acquiring them actually earned the money to buy them. Imagine that. And they're likely to create growth with them, because they already know how to do that, and how to handle the power that comes with it.

Pure speculation, at best. I would say most of the time people buy stuff (estate sale stuff) for one reason: to fill a want or need they have.

Much of the American conceptualization of wealth is an anachronism, based on the mythos of the frontier, on the idea of infinite wealth there for the taking. The frontier closed over 100 years ago, but Righties and Libertarians don't seem to realize that...

Are you implying wealth is finite? Really?

The American conceptualization of wealth comes from one motive and one motive only: to make his/her, and his/her families' life on earth as easy as possible. WTF is the problem with that?

 

[Lemon law]

When John Henry was a little Bitty baby, sitting on his momma knee, he said mama mama those child labor laws will be the death of me lord lord. I want to go to work as soon as I can Lord Lord. To earn those substandard wages and undercut my fellow man
so as to pad the profits of my boss man, lord lord.

 

[spidey07]

When John Henry was a little Bitty baby, sitting on his momma knee, he said mama mama those child labor laws will be the death of me lord lord. I want to go to work as soon as I can Lord Lord. To earn those substandard wages and undercut my fellow man
so as to pad the profits of my boss man, lord lord.

Speak for yourself. I was 1099 consulting for a good while and made money hand over fist. So my lord was my customers, my client was my check. Now in just normal professional consulting the customer/client is still my lord, the consulting company just brings business to me and takes a cut for that service.

Substandard wages my ass, supply and demand. I'm low supply and high demand, good place to be.

 

[Linflas]

One can actually afford and Eacalade,24" rims for it, and an IPhone on Welfare,Food Stamps and Section 8?

They sure can, and the best part is they don't consider the automobiles they own as an indicator of their ability to pay rent. The section 8 house across the street has a Benz, a Jag, and a Chrysler mini van in the driveway. She pays $200.00 per month as her piece of the "rent".

 

[ebaycj]

So your father owns a profitable family business and you are working for him trying to rise through the ranks and learn the business.

Father has a heart attack, government taxes you 100% the supposed value of father's company. Company goes bankrupt, family business ruined and family goes into massive debt. Profiteering shark company picks up foreclosed estate and earns $$$. Random citizen #1 gets a 0.1 cent check from the tax revenue of this decimated business.

What an incredibly bright idea.

Or it could be taken into recievership (and kept running *TEMPORARILY TO ALLOW FOR SALE* by the gov't) as a fully functional business and sold (within a certain timeframe) to the highest bidder. If that timeframe expires with no bids, the company is liquidated.

The government would then treat the dollars recieved from the auction as the value of the company, for tax purposes.

I like it. It removes the Paris Hilton loophole.

Hell, let's throw in a $1,000,000 exemption per kid. That way you can pass something to them, but not enough to give them a free pass in life (assuming they want the millionaire's good life they grew up with).

 

[KlokWyze]

I say we need a debtors prison. No more personal bankruptcy without a long prison sentence. There is no reason the aforementioned couple should have $11 million in debt and nothing to show for it and no way to pay creditors back.

It's the lender's job to decide if and how much they will lend to people. Tough titty of they lend to a person who ends up being unable or unwilling to pay. I wouldn't want to imagine a debt-based society (ours) that throws people in jail for not having enough money to pay their bills. WTF. D:

 

[MotF Bane]

Or it could be taken into recievership (and kept running *TEMPORARILY TO ALLOW FOR SALE* by the gov't) as a fully functional business and sold (within a certain timeframe) to the highest bidder. If that timeframe expires with no bids, the company is liquidated.

The government would then treat the dollars recieved from the auction as the value of the company, for tax purposes.

I like it. It removes the Paris Hilton loophole.

Hell, let's throw in a $1,000,000 exemption per kid. That way you can pass something to them, but not enough to give them a free pass in life (assuming they want the millionaire's good life they grew up with).

You have got to be joking.

 

[spidey07]

You have got to be joking.

People in our country actually think like this. Believe it. We fought a great war against people who think like this. And they can vote.

 

[JS80]

Or it could be taken into recievership (and kept running *TEMPORARILY TO ALLOW FOR SALE* by the gov't) as a fully functional business and sold (within a certain timeframe) to the highest bidder. If that timeframe expires with no bids, the company is liquidated.

The government would then treat the dollars recieved from the auction as the value of the company, for tax purposes.

I like it. It removes the Paris Hilton loophole.

Hell, let's throw in a $1,000,000 exemption per kid. That way you can pass something to them, but not enough to give them a free pass in life (assuming they want the millionaire's good life they grew up with).

Are you loliberals so stupid? As with all stupid loliberal policies there are loopholes to get around it's intended purpose.

 

[Jhhnn]

And what is the responsibility with inherited wealth? To "do good for the common man"? A person who inherits millions, or even billions, has the same responsiblity to do with his/her money everyone else does: what THEY see fit.

Niiice dodge! I thought individual responsibility was about people earning their own money. Apparently that only applies to people who aren't born with a silver spoon in their mouth...

You really are trying to have it both ways. Even you should be able to see that.

As to the whole bit about infinite wealth, I'd contend that at any moment in the modern world, wealth is, indeed, finite. When the frontier was open, it could be considered to be infinite, because much of it wasn't claimed. Doesn't mean that more can't be created over time, particularly if what already exists isn't locked up in the hands of a generational aristocracy.

 

[Slew Foot]

You libtards need your alcoholic stepdad to beat some sense into you.

Us normal people with normal families would like to pass something on to our children.

 

[WHAMPOM]

I for one, agree with our OP and I have a plan to make it happen. Step one is to institute a 100% inheritance tax, eliminate any way to shelter any of the estate by any means, and prevent parents to transfer anything but basic food, clothing, and shelter to their relatives.

But of course I oppose having the government use these monies to support government.

So at the end of every year, the government pools all the monies it gets from that 100% painless death tax, divides it by the number of American citizens, and cuts each of them a check for their fair share.

That way every American starts out on equal footing. If you want more, work for it.

Huey Long had the "Share Our Wealth" plan already, look it up. It was his platform for a run for the PRESIDENCY AND GOT HIM KILLED. History, what nearly every American don't know.

 

[TheBDB]

You libtards need your alcoholic stepdad to beat some sense into you.

Us normal people with normal families would like to pass something on to our children.

I would like to provide for my children also. Everyone would, that isn't the point. The question is do you see hypocrisy in allowing inheritance children to never have to work or earn anything while saying others should have to work for everything they get?

 

[CLite]

Or it could be taken into recievership (and kept running *TEMPORARILY TO ALLOW FOR SALE* by the gov't) as a fully functional business and sold (within a certain timeframe) to the highest bidder. If that timeframe expires with no bids, the company is liquidated.

The government would then treat the dollars recieved from the auction as the value of the company, for tax purposes.

I like it. It removes the Paris Hilton loophole.

Hell, let's throw in a $1,000,000 exemption per kid. That way you can pass something to them, but not enough to give them a free pass in life (assuming they want the millionaire's good life they grew up with).

So the right person to lead a company wouldn't be someone the owner of the company designates in the will, someone that owner potentially trained for decades to lead the company. Someone who would keep potentially thousands of jobs intact because of the knowledge that person had.

No, instead a lobbying firm who has the government eating out of their hand will get first bid rights or something silly, gobble up the company and disband it ruining thousands of jobs. On the other hand you would want to liquidate it ruining thousands of jobs and hurting the economy so that we can hand out 1 cent checks to every American. You are unbelievable.

The two extremes on this board, either they want companies to have the right to poison rivers/oceans/etc. with no regulation whatsoever or they want to expand the government 10 fold by having every single asset seized upon death.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I would like to provide for my children also. Everyone would, that isn't the point. The question is do you see hypocrisy in allowing inheritance children to never have to work or earn anything while saying others should have to work for everything they get?

no.
their "debt" has been paid privately. they are not leeching off society.
HUGE difference. if you can't see this, then i can't help you.

 

[cubby1223]

I would like to provide for my children also. Everyone would, that isn't the point. The question is do you see hypocrisy in allowing inheritance children to never have to work or earn anything while saying others should have to work for everything they get?

There is no hypocrisy. Gosh this forum just makes shit up for the sake of being stupid...

Re-read the comments in the thread, and actually think about what they say, instead of repeating your pre-conceived opinions in your troll thread.

 

[TheBDB]

There is no hypocrisy. Gosh this forum just makes shit up for the sake of being stupid...

Re-read the comments in the thread, and actually think about what they say, instead of repeating your pre-conceived opinions in your troll thread.

Sorry I started a "troll thread" to try to have a discussion about something on my mind. I respect your opinion, even though I don't feel you've adequately explained it. Is it alright if anyone else posts their opinion, or should the thread end now that you have deemed it a closed matter?