People don't care about Benghazi!

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Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
It was a staging area for the operation to take Libyan weapons and send them off to al-qaeda affiliated rebel groups in Syria.

That group of al-qaeda is from Iraq right?
I just read an article that their leader has recalled them back to Iraq
I wonder why they would need Libyan weapons when they got all the weapons they need from Iraq?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Let me know when you start seeing people here defending Bush's actions and the Iraq war. ...
For the record, this forum is full of people who enthusiastically supported BushCo's misadventures, including cheerleading the invasion of Iraq. They guzzled the BushCo/Fox propaganda then just as eagerly as they gulp Issa/Fox Benghazi lies and innuendo today. They are the RNC's true believers, the die-hard faithful who put party above all else, and I'm fully confident that had you been here in 2003, you would have been one of them.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
For the record, this forum is full of people who enthusiastically supported BushCo's misadventures, including cheerleading the invasion of Iraq. They guzzled the BushCo/Fox propaganda then just as eagerly as they gulp Issa/Fox Benghazi lies and innuendo today. They are the RNC's true believers, the die-hard faithful who put party above all else, and I'm fully confident that had you been here in 2003, you would have been one of them.

And then one day when Bush term was almost done, the whole story changed
Nobody here had ever supported Bush
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
For the record, this forum is full of people who enthusiastically supported BushCo's misadventures, including cheerleading the invasion of Iraq. They guzzled the BushCo/Fox propaganda then just as eagerly as they gulp Issa/Fox Benghazi lies and innuendo today. They are the RNC's true believers, the die-hard faithful who put party above all else, and I'm fully confident that had you been here in 2003, you would have been one of them.

Many people will blindly follow their political leaders that can do no wrong.
No matter which side of the fence.

Any mud on the feet is placed by the opponents; their leaders are pure of heart:thumbsdown:
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
For the record, this forum is full of people who enthusiastically supported BushCo's misadventures, including cheerleading the invasion of Iraq. They guzzled the BushCo/Fox propaganda then just as eagerly as they gulp Issa/Fox Benghazi lies and innuendo today. They are the RNC's true believers, the die-hard faithful who put party above all else, and I'm fully confident that had you been here in 2003, you would have been one of them.

That's ironic coming from someone who drank the Benghazi Kool Aid as well as all the others. I will now take a page from your lesson book: Bush didn't lie, he handled the communications poorly.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
That's ironic coming from someone who drank the Benghazi Kool Aid as well as all the others. I will now take a page from your lesson book: Bush didn't lie, he handled the communications poorly.
I realize you are allergic to facts, but here are a couple anyway:

1. I've said many times, including in this thread or the other active Benghazi thread, that I absolutely agree it's possible the Obama administration outright lied to cover up parts of the Benghazi story. I've also stated that the decision to downplay the CIA statement about extremist involvement was questionable. The fact you RNC drones cannot accept, however, is that you have yet to produce credible evidence proving the White House was dishonest about the presumed connection to the tape. You continue to claim you have, dutifully parroting the spin by Fox and its nutter bubble brethren, yet reading the actual source material shows it's the usual overblown innuendo and outright lies. Couple this with all the other belligerent speculation posing as facts, and you guys look like clowns.

2. I've stated here many times that I cannot say GWBush liked about Iraq's mythical WMDs. Certainly people in his administration lied, most notably those like Cheney and Rumsfeld who intentionally manipulated intel to support their warmongering, but Bush is still unknown. It is possible he saw only what they wanted him to see, and truly believed the BS fed to him. Lying requires more than stating incorrect information. It requires the intent to deceive.

Oh, for the record, you couldn't begin to grasp my "lesson book." It involves foreign concepts like getting facts and data, using them to form opinions (instead of starting with opinions and perverting facts to fit them), and acting with honesty and integrity. It also encompasses such a complex spectrum of shades of grey that it would make your head implode. You best stick to the RNC playbook, where everything you need to think is laid out for you in simple, black and white talking points.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
And then one day when Bush term was almost done, the whole story changed
Nobody here had ever supported Bush
:D

Isn't that the truth. Once the RNC realized how badly Bush was dragging the party down, his faithful flock flip-flopped virtually overnight, rewrote the history books, and chanted in unison that they never supported Bush. It was all those other guys. It would have been almost funny if not for the hundreds of thousands of dead people and trillions of dollars pissed away.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
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Oh I absolutely think Bush lied. At the very least he decided which data seemed to fit his agenda at the time. The WMD's were not mythical. Lets get that straight right now. Saddam had them, that is indisputable. What is disputable is whether or not he had them just prior to the invasion. Remember, he was supposed to document and prove to the UN their destruction or disposal and he never did.

I thought the invasion was a bad idea from the start. We knew in 1991 that an invasion and occupation would open a can a worms. Once again I think Bush decided what data to go with and decided an invasion/occupation was a good idea.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Oh I absolutely think Bush lied. At the very least he decided which data seemed to fit his agenda at the time.
To be clear, I also think Bush lied. I do not assert it as fact, however, because I've never seen credible evidence that he personally was involved in crafting the lies. That is the distinction so many of you cannot grasp, separating your feelings and beliefs from what the evidence truly supports.


The WMD's were not mythical. Lets get that straight right now. Saddam had them, that is indisputable. What is disputable is whether or not he had them just prior to the invasion.
For someone who denies being a Bush fan-boy, you're certainly quick to grab their talking points. Of course the context is right before the invasion. Further, the Bush administration didn't limit its tall tales to WMDs Iraq once held. They invented lots of news ones: massive stockpiles, mushroom clouds, WMD Winnebagos, UAVs ready to strike America's heartland, aluminum tubes that were only suitable for use in uranium separation centrifuges (other than being absolutely unsuitable for use in such centrifuges), etc. So yes, mythical WMDs.


Remember, he was supposed to document and prove to the UN their destruction or disposal and he never did.
That's one of those simple black and white talking points I mentioned that is really many layers of grey. It would add too much noise to hash through it in this thread.


I thought the invasion was a bad idea from the start. We knew in 1991 that an invasion and occupation would open a can a worms. Once again I think Bush decided what data to go with and decided an invasion/occupation was a good idea.
Perhaps, but that's what they all say. It is convenient that you were presumably not posting here in those days. Would you care to link to something from that time period supporting this?
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
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To be clear, I also think Bush lied. I do not assert it as fact, however, because I've never seen credible evidence that he personally was involved in crafting the lies. That is the distinction so many of you cannot grasp, separating your feelings and beliefs from what the evidence truly supports.

No we don't have evidence but this is something you are going to have to do that you apparently are not very good at doing, using common sense. Remember, regardless of what anyone may have told you, Bush was in charge. None of his subordinates are going to craft data like that just because they crave war. You know damn well heads would have rolled if someone did.

For someone who denies being a Bush fan-boy, you're certainly quick to grab their talking points. Of course the context is right before the invasion. Further, the Bush administration didn't limit its tall tales to WMDs Iraq once held. They invented lots of news ones: massive stockpiles, mushroom clouds, WMD Winnebagos, UAVs ready to strike America's heartland, aluminum tubes that were only suitable for use in uranium separation centrifuges (other than being absolutely unsuitable for use in such centrifuges), etc. So yes, mythical WMDs.

Any time a well known fact contradicts your agenda you just call it a talking point, even though you are probably one of the great quoters of talking points on this forum. You will also note I did not use any of the new "talking point" terms. I am just merely stating it's fact Saddam had them at one time and provided no proof he got rid of them.

Perhaps, but that's what they all say. It is convenient that you were presumably not posting here in those days. Would you care to link to something from that time period supporting this?

LOL. Sorry, I do not have any links from 2003 of me condemning the invasion. You would probably find some way to not believe them anyways. You just might have to come to the conclusion that not a lot of people on both sides of the isle liked the job Bush did. I liked him right up until Iraq.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,991
8,587
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Let me know when you start seeing people here defending Bush's actions and the Iraq war. And that's real cute saying the economic downturn wasn't ALL Bush's fault seeing as how the majority of the blame is on legislation that was passed before he even took office. Either way those are moot points as Bush is 6 years removed form office. The guy that is in there now campaigned on fixing the problems and making great changes. We're still waiting.

To buttress the point I was making, it's that the Bush/Cheney Corp. did nothing to mitigate the ongoing rush toward financial disaster. From their high and mighty perch, they could see what was going on a whole lot clearer than anyone else's vantage point. Yet it happened without them lifting a finger or an eyebrow at the unfolding debacle. It's as if they wanted it to happen. They had the power and especially so the influence to do whatever it took to prevent or at the least soften the blow. So yes, absolutely, they had everything to do with that mess.

Six years removed makes the Bush/Cheney robbery at the treasury and the setbacks the middle class and the poor experienced during their leadership being moot? Not when the effects of their actions are still being felt to this very day.

The only way these two guys are going to be relegated to distant memory is if and when the damage they caused has either been paid for with their incarceration or they personally undo what they did, and we both know that either is never going to happen. Sorry. :)
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
No we don't have evidence but this is something you are going to have to do that you apparently are not very good at doing, using common sense.
Thank you for corroborating my point. As I said, lacking evidence, you substitute emotion-based speculation and present it as fact. Calling it "common sense" doesn't change this fundamental issue (especially given that one's "common sense" is mostly based on one's existing biases and brainwashing). Remember that the Earth was once "known" to be flat due to common sense. Facts and data are the key to informed discussion, not feelings and biases.


Remember, regardless of what anyone may have told you, Bush was in charge. None of his subordinates are going to craft data like that just because they crave war. You know damn well heads would have rolled if someone did.
Your naivete is precious. If you'd ever worked in a larger organization, you'd know it is often quite easy to filter what the boss learns. If the boss passively accepts information passed to him, he will remain blissfully ignorant of what's really going on in his domain. It takes a boss who aggressively reaches out across organizational layers and silos to really keep tabs on what's going on.


Any time a well known fact contradicts your agenda you just call it a talking point, even though you are probably one of the great quoters of talking points on this forum. You will also note I did not use any of the new "talking point" terms. I am just merely stating it's fact Saddam had them at one time and provided no proof he got rid of them.
Yawn. You read the words, but you do not comprehend. Yes, it is a fact that Iraq had "WMDs" in the 1990's. That is not in dispute. What made it a talking point is that it was regularly flogged by the Bush propagandists to obfuscate the past vs. the present, to divert the debate away from what actually mattered: Iraq did not have the WMDs the Bush administration used to justify the invasion. That is also exactly how you used it, which is why I called it out.

The rest of the terms I listed were simply to show that BushCo did far more than point to the WMDs Iraq once had. They also invented all sorts of new ones. This is why "mythical WMDs" is perfectly reasonable and accurate.


LOL. Sorry, I do not have any links from 2003 of me condemning the invasion. You would probably find some way to not believe them anyways.
You're projecting. That is how you respond to facts that contradict you. If you can show you didn't support Bush's attack on Iraq, I'm perfectly happy to accept that. If not, I don't really care. It affects me not a whit.

I'll simply note that most of the rabid 2003 Bush supporters now make your same claim. Based on the evidence of their posts at that time, I know as fact that they are lying. Lacking evidence about you one way or the other, I will reach no conclusion. I will not use my "common sense" to assert as fact that you're lying too. I can only speculate.


You just might have to come to the conclusion that not a lot of people on both sides of the isle liked the job Bush did. I liked him right up until Iraq.
Nobody pleases everyone. Given that Bush's post-invasion Republican approval rating peaked at "only" 96%, I recognize that some Republicans didn't like him. If you were one of them, you were in a tiny minority.
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,466
3,067
121
For the record, this forum is full of people who enthusiastically supported BushCo's misadventures, including cheerleading the invasion of Iraq. They guzzled the BushCo/Fox propaganda then just as eagerly as they gulp Issa/Fox Benghazi lies and innuendo today. They are the RNC's true believers, the die-hard faithful who put party above all else, and I'm fully confident that had you been here in 2003, you would have been one of them.
What he said.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Thank you for corroborating my point. As I said, lacking evidence, you substitute emotion-based speculation and present it as fact. Calling it "common sense" doesn't change this fundamental issue (especially given that one's "common sense" is mostly based on one's existing biases and brainwashing). Remember that the Earth was once "known" to be flat due to common sense. Facts and data are the key to informed discussion, not feelings and biases.

.

No, it's not emotion-based speculation. Apparently you don't like the term "common sense" so how about we call it drawing a conclusion based on the info available and in this case it has a quite high probability of being true. Data was fabricated. Bush was in charge. No heads ever rolled. Wouldn't you want to know who fed you false data? His lack of seeking out the truth is a good indicator he was behind it all the way. But whatever, arguing with you seems pointless anyways. I mean you are actually defending Bush as an excuse to argue with a Conservative. You wear your dishonesty on your sleeve all the time and you never see it.
 

Stewox

Senior member
Dec 10, 2013
528
0
0
Am I the only one who feels this way? Yes, Benghazi was a tragedy and I do feel bad for the American lives that were lost. It's over!!

Do the Republicans really fear Hillary? I have a feeling that if Hillary wasn't involved this event would be in the history books.

I'd rather see congress tackle unemployment, low wages, student loan debt, health care, etc...


It's time to move on.

Yeah, it's just hillary's involvement, it's time to move on, protect the criminals and hide their tracks, that's what america is all about isn't it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNde4CJ6wrY
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
No, it's not emotion-based speculation. Apparently you don't like the term "common sense" so how about we call it drawing a conclusion based on the info available and in this case it has a quite high probability of being true. Data was fabricated. Bush was in charge. No heads ever rolled. Wouldn't you want to know who fed you false data? His lack of seeking out the truth is a good indicator he was behind it all the way.
I don't care what you call it. It's still speculation posing as fact. That's the whole issue with righties' Benghazi hard-on. They ignore the actual facts available in favor of the speculation and innuendo spread by the Issa/Fox propaganda mill. Your so-called "common sense" is nothing but blind partisan faith.

But whatever, arguing with you seems pointless anyways. I mean you are actually defending Bush as an excuse to argue with a Conservative. You wear your dishonesty on your sleeve all the time and you never see it.
You're doing it again. I am being consistent in my position. Over the years I have stated several times here that I cannot state as fact that Bush lied about Iraq's WMDs. (Search my handle for "Bush lied".) I believe it is likely he lied, and I can state with certainty his administration lied, but that's as far as we can go given the evidence available.

You, on the other hand, pretend your assumptions are fact. Any dishonesty here is yours.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
The fact that someone who seems very likely to run for president was in charge of the state department at the time makes me care quite a bit actually.

But you were never going to vote for Hilary in the first place. So it's correct to say that Benghazi is actually irrelevant for you.

Apart from Ambassador Steven, do you even know the names of the people killed in the attack? Do you know how many Americans were seriously injured?

I thought not.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
I don't care what you call it. It's still speculation posing as fact. That's the whole issue with righties' Benghazi hard-on. They ignore the actual facts available in favor of the speculation and innuendo spread by the Issa/Fox propaganda mill. Your so-called "common sense" is nothing but blind partisan faith.

You're doing it again. I am being consistent in my position. Over the years I have stated several times here that I cannot state as fact that Bush lied about Iraq's WMDs. (Search my handle for "Bush lied".) I believe it is likely he lied, and I can state with certainty his administration lied, but that's as far as we can go given the evidence available.

You, on the other hand, pretend your assumptions are fact. Any dishonesty here is yours.

My calling Bush a liar is nothing but blind partisan faith? Ya, I can see my own dishonesty.
 

Stewox

Senior member
Dec 10, 2013
528
0
0
People don't care about Benghazi,.. unless it's associated with Obama.

Now, Bush, he can Benghazi all up in this mother fucker and no one will blink; http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/13-benghazis-that-occurre_b_3246847.html

Fox appears to get some things through, doesn't mean all the mainstream media is bad, but it doesn't mean im not going to praise fox as it can turn the other way in a moment, usually it's the local affiliates that report on many stuff the nationals don't, but at least FOX it's not as tightly influenced such as MSNBC is.

There is way more freedom out there than you can see, did you know probably a third of hollywood is secretly libertarian and knows about the elite, the players, who don't make decisions, but they are kept on a leash by a few big studio boss heads, ofcourse, nobody of those really admits being pro-freedom and yes they listen to the Alex Jones Show as well, we know Bruce Willis (1) and Chuck Norris (1,2,3,4) are listeners, it was also revealed through a friend that Tom Clancy was a listener.

Speaking of Bhengazi, in a nutshell, obama and hillary ordered a standdown so al-kaida could kill stevens in order to get a reason for libyan intervention, all the "rebels" crying for NATO help were actually agents, gadaffi wasn't shooting it's own people, he knew it was al-kaida (US/Saudi/Israel proxy force), it is a type of false flag, part of a problem-reaction-solution.
 
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