Penn & Teller Bull Organic Food

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: swbsam
blah blah blah....

Hey, thanks for bumping the thread again so that more people will end up watching the video and enjoying it!

He's butt hurt because he knows he's wasting money buying organic.

He didn't even watch the video

 

[Phokus]

Even when Penn & Teller presents evidence that shows they may be right (as in their organic food episode), they often leave out evidence, or leave out arguments that would weaken their case. For example, injected hormones in cows which boost milk production, while no evidence has been shown to have negative effects on humans (which they argued on the show), it has been shown to degrade the quality of heatlh in cows, causing mastitis (a painful inflamation of the cow's mammary glands) and other ill health affects (which penn & teller never mentioned).

Two meta-analyses have been published on rBST's effects on bovine health.[6][7] Findings indicated an average increase in milk output ranging from 11%-16%, a nearly 25% increase in the risk of clinical mastitis, a 40% reduction in fertility and 55% increased risk of developing clinical signs of lameness. However, the study did not show if using "natural" growth hormones had the same or worse effects (the study in fact notes that synthetic BST can be made to be identical to natural BST). The same study reported a decrease in body condition score but speculated that it may have been attributable to differences in feeding of treated (underfed) versus untreated (overfed) cows.

A European Union scientific commission was asked to report on the incidence of mastitis and other disorders in dairy cows and on other aspects of the welfare of dairy cows.[8] The commission's statement, subsequently adopted by the European Union, stated that the use of rBST substantially increased health problems with cows, including foot problems, mastitis and injection site reactions, impinged on the welfare of the animals and caused reproductive disorders. The report concluded that, on the basis of the health and welfare of the animals, rBST should not be used. Health Canada prohibited the sale of rBST in 1999; the recommendations of external committees were that, despite not finding a significant health risk to humans, the drug presents a threat to animal health, and, for this reason, cannot be sold in Canada.[9]

 

[Zolty]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
they always find complete morons when they do these type of "investigations"

he also makes a lot of unqualified statements throughout the video..

that said..people do need to fucking think instead of just being lulled by labels

environmentalists need to be forward thinking and willing to take their medicine when wrong about something

I think its great when someone challenges my beliefs..crash them to the ground..i don't really intend to hold unsubstantiated beliefs..its just that im a human and its hard not to

lovely how rude and sarcastic people are about these things when if their life was held up to scrutiny they would fail the test as well

I seem to remember them doing a segment about how bullshit is also bullshit and people should investigate for themselves.

 

[RaiderJ]

I imagine there is some valid arguments towards organic food being better. I certainly don't want my food to be covered in chemicals and pesticides.... but I don't want it covered in bugs either. There's a balance.

The point of the episode to me was that simply buying organic without really doing any research is stupid. Organic is 90% marketing, and that should be obvious to everyone.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: swbsam
sigh, why must neo-cons keep this shit up? don't like organic? DON'T BUY IT.. If you can afford to spend extra on higher quality then, well, why shouldn't you be allowed to? Penn and teller are obnoxious tools who selectively chose their "experts" - the experts on their sides are people who have their shit together, while the 'liberals' are always raging idiots..

Terrible, terrible show...

And bottled water is awesome - I'm so glad that it's caught on, vs. drinking from spit covered, warm, rust tasting public drinking fountains when out and about.

I'm not a "neo-con." I'm not even a con. I'm libertarian. So are Penn and Teller.

We're followers of objectivity.

Way to make yourself one of those "raging idiot" liberals. You can't even tell the HUGE difference between conservatism and libertarianism.

BTW, a lot of right wing nutjobs follow the "organic" movement too, right along with the anti-vaccination movement. The further a person goes out on either "wing" the more likely they are to buy into fringe crap like "Organic" and be religious about it.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

You discount science in favor of anecdotal 'evidence', you're the LAST person who should claim 'objectivity' :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[daniel1113]

I didn't realize season 7 had started already. At least now I have something to do over the next few days while moving across the country. Penn & Teller FTW!

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: RaiderJ
I imagine there is some valid arguments towards organic food being better. I certainly don't want my food to be covered in chemicals and pesticides.... but I don't want it covered in bugs either. There's a balance.

The point of the episode to me was that simply buying organic without really doing any research is stupid. Organic is 90% marketing, and that should be obvious to everyone.

Organic food is covered in pesticides too.

 

[EGGO]

Originally posted by: Syringer
I'm just starting it right now, but this taste test itself is BS. Taste is completely subjective, and if people want to believe it tastes better then all the more power to them. I may not find it more tasteful, but if these people want to believe it's better, then all the more power to them.

You may want to watch "The Best is Bullshit" episode then to see more of people using their subjective taste over food served in a restaurant. It's even funnier than this one.

 

[AMDZen]

Originally posted by: SneakyStuff
As long as I can buy my delicious, pesticide ridden apples at affordable prices I could care less what other people spend their money on. Some of that show was pretty funny though.

So you admit to not even watching it then? Since they said point blank that everyone uses pesticides including the organic farmers. And go on to say that the pesticides the organic's use can often be even worse

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: EGGO

Originally posted by: Syringer
I'm just starting it right now, but this taste test itself is BS. Taste is completely subjective, and if people want to believe it tastes better then all the more power to them. I may not find it more tasteful, but if these people want to believe it's better, then all the more power to them.

You may want to watch "The Best is Bullshit" episode then to see more of people using their subjective taste over food served in a restaurant. It's even funnier than this one.

That one was hilarious.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Even when Penn & Teller presents evidence that shows they may be right (as in their organic food episode), they often leave out evidence, or leave out arguments that would weaken their case. For example, injected hormones in cows which boost milk production, while no evidence has been shown to have negative effects on humans (which they argued on the show), it has been shown to degrade the quality of heatlh in cows, causing mastitis (a painful inflamation of the cow's mammary glands) and other ill health affects (which penn & teller never mentioned).

Two meta-analyses have been published on rBST's effects on bovine health.[6][7] Findings indicated an average increase in milk output ranging from 11%-16%, a nearly 25% increase in the risk of clinical mastitis, a 40% reduction in fertility and 55% increased risk of developing clinical signs of lameness. However, the study did not show if using "natural" growth hormones had the same or worse effects (the study in fact notes that synthetic BST can be made to be identical to natural BST). The same study reported a decrease in body condition score but speculated that it may have been attributable to differences in feeding of treated (underfed) versus untreated (overfed) cows.

A European Union scientific commission was asked to report on the incidence of mastitis and other disorders in dairy cows and on other aspects of the welfare of dairy cows.[8] The commission's statement, subsequently adopted by the European Union, stated that the use of rBST substantially increased health problems with cows, including foot problems, mastitis and injection site reactions, impinged on the welfare of the animals and caused reproductive disorders. The report concluded that, on the basis of the health and welfare of the animals, rBST should not be used. Health Canada prohibited the sale of rBST in 1999; the recommendations of external committees were that, despite not finding a significant health risk to humans, the drug presents a threat to animal health, and, for this reason, cannot be sold in Canada.[9]

Typical liberal introducing evidence that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. How does degrading cow health affect their position that organic is "Bullshit!"?

Phokus.txt

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: Phokus
Even when Penn & Teller presents evidence that shows they may be right (as in their organic food episode), they often leave out evidence, or leave out arguments that would weaken their case. For example, injected hormones in cows which boost milk production, while no evidence has been shown to have negative effects on humans (which they argued on the show), it has been shown to degrade the quality of heatlh in cows, causing mastitis (a painful inflamation of the cow's mammary glands) and other ill health affects (which penn & teller never mentioned).

Two meta-analyses have been published on rBST's effects on bovine health.[6][7] Findings indicated an average increase in milk output ranging from 11%-16%, a nearly 25% increase in the risk of clinical mastitis, a 40% reduction in fertility and 55% increased risk of developing clinical signs of lameness. However, the study did not show if using "natural" growth hormones had the same or worse effects (the study in fact notes that synthetic BST can be made to be identical to natural BST). The same study reported a decrease in body condition score but speculated that it may have been attributable to differences in feeding of treated (underfed) versus untreated (overfed) cows.

A European Union scientific commission was asked to report on the incidence of mastitis and other disorders in dairy cows and on other aspects of the welfare of dairy cows.[8] The commission's statement, subsequently adopted by the European Union, stated that the use of rBST substantially increased health problems with cows, including foot problems, mastitis and injection site reactions, impinged on the welfare of the animals and caused reproductive disorders. The report concluded that, on the basis of the health and welfare of the animals, rBST should not be used. Health Canada prohibited the sale of rBST in 1999; the recommendations of external committees were that, despite not finding a significant health risk to humans, the drug presents a threat to animal health, and, for this reason, cannot be sold in Canada.[9]

Typical liberal introducing evidence that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. How does degrading cow health affect their position that organic is "Bullshit!"?

Phokus.txt

lol, owned

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: JS80

Typical liberal introducing evidence that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. How does degrading cow health affect their position that organic is "Bullshit!"?

Phokus.txt

lol, owned

Typical conservative retards who don't know how to read.

they often leave out evidence, or leave out arguments that would weaken their case.

They talk about organic milk but never introduce the argument that hormone injections in cows cause debilitating health defects to cows that cause great pain to them. Cruelty to cows via hormone injection IS a reason used by people who drink organic milk as to why they won't drink regular milk, you dumbasses.

Fucking owned yourself.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: RaiderJ
I imagine there is some valid arguments towards organic food being better. I certainly don't want my food to be covered in chemicals and pesticides.... but I don't want it covered in bugs either. There's a balance.

The point of the episode to me was that simply buying organic without really doing any research is stupid. Organic is 90% marketing, and that should be obvious to everyone.

Organic food is covered in pesticides too.

Sweet, delicious pesticides. :drool;

 

[sourceninja]

You know that I actually can taste a difference in Horizon's milk. It has a distinct flavor (maybe the ultra pasteurization process?)

My wife is amazed that I know when she has not bought it as she can't taste a difference. I'll ask for a glass of milk and she will bring me one and I will know instantly if it was Horizons or not. She has even tried other 'organic' milks (such as Meyer's) and I have always been able to tell. She stopped buying it recently because we are cutting our costs and it didn't make sense to spend more on milk just cause I happen to think it tastes better.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Phokus

They talk about organic milk but never introduce the argument that hormone injections in cows cause debilitating health defects to cows that cause great pain to them. Cruelty to cows via hormone injection IS a reason used by people who drink organic milk as to why they won't drink regular milk, you dumbasses.

Fucking owned yourself.

Fucking ownage NOT found!

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Phokus

They talk about organic milk but never introduce the argument that hormone injections in cows cause debilitating health defects to cows that cause great pain to them. Cruelty to cows via hormone injection IS a reason used by people who drink organic milk as to why they won't drink regular milk, you dumbasses.

Fucking owned yourself.

Fucking ownage NOT found!

yeah, if you're a typical dumb as shit conservative who lives in a black and white world and experiences cognitive dissonance every time someone introduces evidence that maybe their dearly held beliefs aren't as unshakable as they thought, yeah that would be true.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Phokus]

Acknowledged bias

Many critics accuse Penn and Teller of being biased in their approach to debunking their opponents' arguments. For example, Chaz Miller, who was interviewed for the "Recycling" episode, said that Bullshit! attempts to exclude certain information if it does not favor the show's position.[11]

In the episode "Family Values", Penn said, "... we're fair and we never take people out of context. We're biased as all fuck. But, we try to be honest."[12] Still, some critics who sympathize with the duo's over-arching message have expressed regret that they can occasionally slip into the same sensationalism as their targets. This was summed up in a review by Slate which stated: "One of the unwritten rules for winning an argument against an inflammatory, irrational opponent is to calmly adhere to a loftier set of rhetorical standards. Penn and Teller showily throw this notion out the window."[13]

While Penn and Teller are self-professed skeptics, critics have been quick to note that Bullshit! is not dedicated to fact-based debunking or inquiry. An otherwise favorable review by The Onion A.V. Club noted:

Bullshit! isn't journalism, exactly. The show is one-sided by design: P&T's field interviewers rarely confront their subjects with the evidence against them, preferring to let the crackpots ramble on so that Jillette's voiceover rejoinders can score points without inciting a real argument.[14]

During an interview on the January 31, 2007 episode of The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, Teller claimed that the final episode of the show would be about "the bullshit of Bullshit!" and would detail all the criticisms that they themselves had of the show.[15]

Pretty much sums it up. The fact that people in this thread are taking this show as gospel and using it to re-affirm their faith, shows how intellectually lazy some of you idiots can be.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Hahaha great episode. I love how self proclaimed organic consumers failed miserably to predict which is organic based on taste.

Their analogy to religion is spot on as well. It is an extension of the global warming religion that has shown up over the past 3 decades.

but climate change due to global warming is real

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Phokus

They talk about organic milk but never introduce the argument that hormone injections in cows cause debilitating health defects to cows that cause great pain to them. Cruelty to cows via hormone injection IS a reason used by people who drink organic milk as to why they won't drink regular milk, you dumbasses.

Fucking owned yourself.

Fucking ownage NOT found!

yeah, if you're a typical dumb as shit conservative who lives in a black and white world and experiences cognitive dissonance every time someone introduces evidence that maybe their dearly held beliefs aren't as unshakable as they thought, yeah that would be true.

Ignorance is bliss.

yeah, most people who buy organic do it in the name of the cows :roll:

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Phokus

They're entertainers period. Anyone who thinks Bullshit is the complete authority on complex debates are full of shit.

Then by all means argue a counterpoint on this issue. Oh wait, you can't, thus this by simple fact renders them a "complete authority" on this issue, because, and try and stay with me here, its the truth.

 

[swbsam]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: Genx87
Hahaha great episode. I love how self proclaimed organic consumers failed miserably to predict which is organic based on taste.

Their analogy to religion is spot on as well. It is an extension of the global warming religion that has shown up over the past 3 decades.

but climate change due to global warming is real

Not according to pen and teller! Those mother fuckers can make a quarter disappear, so they must be right!

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Ignorance is bliss.

Then you must be the happiest fucker around.

Go back to P&N, youre not wanted here.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: Phokus

They talk about organic milk but never introduce the argument that hormone injections in cows cause debilitating health defects to cows that cause great pain to them. Cruelty to cows via hormone injection IS a reason used by people who drink organic milk as to why they won't drink regular milk, you dumbasses.

Fucking owned yourself.

Fucking ownage NOT found!

yeah, if you're a typical dumb as shit conservative who lives in a black and white world and experiences cognitive dissonance every time someone introduces evidence that maybe their dearly held beliefs aren't as unshakable as they thought, yeah that would be true.

Ignorance is bliss.

Fucking owned yourself.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Acknowledged bias

Many critics accuse Penn and Teller of being biased in their approach to debunking their opponents' arguments. For example, Chaz Miller, who was interviewed for the "Recycling" episode, said that Bullshit! attempts to exclude certain information if it does not favor the show's position.[11]

In the episode "Family Values", Penn said, "... we're fair and we never take people out of context. We're biased as all fuck. But, we try to be honest."[12] Still, some critics who sympathize with the duo's over-arching message have expressed regret that they can occasionally slip into the same sensationalism as their targets. This was summed up in a review by Slate which stated: "One of the unwritten rules for winning an argument against an inflammatory, irrational opponent is to calmly adhere to a loftier set of rhetorical standards. Penn and Teller showily throw this notion out the window."[13]

While Penn and Teller are self-professed skeptics, critics have been quick to note that Bullshit! is not dedicated to fact-based debunking or inquiry. An otherwise favorable review by The Onion A.V. Club noted:

Bullshit! isn't journalism, exactly. The show is one-sided by design: P&T's field interviewers rarely confront their subjects with the evidence against them, preferring to let the crackpots ramble on so that Jillette's voiceover rejoinders can score points without inciting a real argument.[14]

During an interview on the January 31, 2007 episode of The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, Teller claimed that the final episode of the show would be about "the bullshit of Bullshit!" and would detail all the criticisms that they themselves had of the show.[15]

Pretty much sums it up. The fact that people in this thread are taking this show as gospel and using it to re-affirm their faith, shows how intellectually lazy some of you idiots can be.

You guys have to see some truth behind this.

Bullshit is a television show. It is meant to entertain. This isn't serious journalism or a scientific essay. Each episode they set out to prove a point and convince their audience that their opinion is right, and they do it pretty well. However, anyone who things that Bullshit is the only place you have to go to get information about a controversial topic is deeply mistaken.

It is simply another tool in the toolbox, and you have to take it with a grain of salt.