Penn State protects child rapist that was former famous D-Coordinator

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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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I see them not wanting to personally look bad for hiring a pedo.

...and that outweighed, for them, the rather obvious notion that turning this guy over to justice would show them as having done the right thing--that this wasn't about football, that this wasn't about themselves?

nah, it's pretty clear that they were worried about more than their hiring decisions. There was some delusion and denial there, but the concern was over the damage that simply outing this, even in the light of justice, would have done to the program. It's sickening.


and, again--the "bringing this out would make me look bad because I hired the guy" mentality is classic police-state thinking. (I don't want to directly compare the two, just showing how universally this ancient thinking has been rejected).

shit, Chernobyl happened expressly because the head supervisor on duty that day refused to believe that anything was wrong--because admitting that something was wrong would be to admit that Russia was weak, that it built something that did not work. It could have easily been prevented, as testified by many of the engineers on hand, but the man in power on that day simply turned away and ignored the obvious warnings because in his mind, dealing with the problem admitted that it existed, admitted that there was some type of failure.

that thinking was wrong then (and extensive investigations into the incident point to this moment of administrative incompetence), and it was wrong when Paterno applied it (if your assumption on his thinking is to be accepted)
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
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tbqhwy.com
Maybe I suffer from a limited imagination, but I can't for the life of me see how protecting Sandusky could have ever looked like it was "good" for the football team. Not being sarcastic, I just can't see it.

yea i dont get it, if they reported him 10+ years ago and he was arrested it would have been over and people would have forgotten about it by now
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
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yea i dont get it, if they reported him 10+ years ago and he was arrested it would have been over and people would have forgotten about it by now

Well, they did report him to the police 10+ years ago, and the DA didn't prosecute (read: it was swept under the rug).
 

MontyAC

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2004
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There is so much coverup by school and law enforcement people. Everyone should be prosecuted.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
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There is so much coverup by school and law enforcement people. Everyone should be prosecuted.

Yes, by the appropriate body. Not from some pr move that will be regarded as an epic fail when analyzed much later.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
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Fuck Penn St.

The whole place.

Especially the students who rioted in support of child rape.
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
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The only epic fail here is anyone trying to still stick up for Pedo state.
 

benzylic

Golden Member
Jun 12, 2006
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"The secret beauty of a death penalty is that a program absorbs the hit in one devastating blow and is cleansed. Once you get past the blow, the slate is clean, you can sell high quality recruits on starting as a freshman (with a team that will be in bowls by the time they're juniors) and you can sell a very specific vision built around rebirth, early playing time, and being celebrated forever as the men who restored honor to Penn State football. To this day, Rick Pitino's Unforgettables are more beloved in Kentucky than any national title team."


This guy knows what he is talking about. Everyone saying we can't have a nuke because it will hurt to many people bla bla bla. We will just watch Penn State limp along for then next 10 years I'm sure that be better for every in the long run. :rolleyes:

To say that if Penn St. received the death penalty, would recover in 3 years and be in bowl games is laughable at best. Its been over 20 years since SMU received the death penalty and they are just now starting to be relevent again.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
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To say that if Penn St. received the death penalty, would recover in 3 years and be in bowl games is laughable at best. Its been over 20 years since SMU received the death penalty and they are just now starting to be relevent again.

SMU was never nearly as relevant as PSU, however. It wouldn't take PSU too long to recover.

but the 1 year DP for this would be terrible, anyway. They deserve 3 or 4 years of no football, the fuckers.
 
Nov 3, 2004
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Please explain

Let's say that at MIT, there was a similar coverup in the engineering department by some bigshot professor molesting kids. Janitors don't want to risk reporting him because he's such a big name and it's all swept under the rug for many years. It's a big scandal when this comes to light. The accrediting organization for engineering then decides to force the school to dramatically limit the number of engineering students it can accept and/or removes engineering accreditation from degrees given out during that time frame. Would that make any sense to you?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,851
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Let's say that at MIT, there was a similar coverup in the engineering department by some bigshot professor molesting kids. Janitors don't want to risk reporting him because he's such a big name and it's all swept under the rug for many years. It's a big scandal when this comes to light. The accrediting organization for engineering then decides to force the school to dramatically limit the number of engineering students it can accept and/or removes engineering accreditation from degrees given out during that time frame. Would that make any sense to you?

uhhhhhh, if the engineering department were worried about the reputation of the engineering department, and thus the coverup, then yes, absolutely. SHut down the egineering department. Their reputation is not worth saving when it was their vary reputation, exploited by a sadistic monster, to create a child rape factory.

but that is not what you're saying, and is not what happened at PSU. Joe Paterno wasn't simply worried about Joe Paterno (Remember, Spanier and others believed that they needed to turn Sandusky over, only old man Joe shut them down). How could Paterno ever assume that this was a decision to protect himself? He clearly felt there were larger stakes (idiotically, to be sure), and that the reputation of the University and his football program was at stake (again, idiotically).
 
Nov 3, 2004
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uhhhhhh, if the engineering department were worried about the reputation of the engineering department, and thus the coverup, then yes, absolutely. SHut down the egineering department. Their reputation is not worth saving when it was their vary reputation, exploited by a sadistic monster, to create a child rape factory.

but that is not what you're saying, and is not what happened at PSU. Joe Paterno wasn't simply worried about Joe Paterno (Remember, Spanier and others believed that they needed to turn Sandusky over, only old man Joe shut them down). How could Paterno ever assume that this was a decision to protect himself? He clearly felt there were larger stakes (idiotically, to be sure), and that the reputation of the University and his football program was at stake (again, idiotically).

You honestly believe that they should shut down an entire department that affects thousands of people because of a coverup between a few higher ups? Well then, I see we're not going to get anywhere in this discussion.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
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And for all the dumbasses out there that have difficulty in understanding due process and jurisdiction;

lol @ the dumb jets fan using words he doesn't understand.

Only an idiot thinks that an association like the NCAA is required to give due process to a member who has committed grievous crimes. The government is required by the US Constitution. The NCAA is not the government. It is an association of member institutions who are free to join or leave.

If they want to become and stay a member of the association, they not only have to pay dues and comply with a myriad of different bylaws, but they have to ACT IN AN ETHICAL MANNER (it's in section 2.4 of the division I rules, which I've posted in this thread several times). If they are publicly found to have committed heinous crimes, then the association is well within its rights to just expel them.

The only way 'due process' comes into play is if there are specific bylaws in the NCAA rules that provide how to treat a member institution whose president, AD, and head football coach covered up child rape. As this bylaw does not exist, then the Executive Committee of the NCAA was free to kick Ped State out of the NCAA. This is why Ped State accepted it's punishment.

Jesus Hume Christ, you are a dumb motherfucker.
 
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Gigantopithecus

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2004
7,664
0
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Let's say that at MIT, there was a similar coverup in the engineering department by some bigshot professor molesting kids. Janitors don't want to risk reporting him because he's such a big name...

I stopped reading there because I was too busy laughing at the epic absurdity.
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,994
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Hahahah, yeah, because we all know janitors worship engineering professors, hahahahaha. :D

Edit: Coincidentally, my dad is an actual engineering (bio-medical) professor at MIT and he's had run ins with the janitors there touching stuff they're not supposed to... the idea whole idea is hilarious to me :p

Edit 2: I mean Joe Paterno was more powerful the the athletic director and the university president. What a dumb comparison.
 
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lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
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lol @ the dumb jets fan using words he doesn't understand.

Only an idiot thinks that an association like the NCAA is required to give due process to a member who has committed grievous crimes. The government is required by the US Constitution. The NCAA is not the government. It is an association of member institutions who are free to join or leave.

If they want to become and stay a member of the association, they not only have to pay dues and comply with a myriad of different bylaws, but they have to ACT IN AN ETHICAL MANNER (it's in section 2.4 of the division I rules, which I've posted in this thread several times). If they are publicly found to have committed heinous crimes, then the association is well within its rights to just expel them.

The only way 'due process' comes into play is if there are specific bylaws in the NCAA rules that provide how to treat a member institution whose president, AD, and head football coach covered up child rape. As this bylaw does not exist, then the Executive Committee of the NCAA was free to kick Ped State out of the NCAA. This is why Ped State accepted it's punishment.

Jesus Hume Christ, you are a dumb motherfucker.

you're the dumb fuck with your head so far up your ass you can't separate your love for sucking penn state cock with analyzing the inappropriateness of the NCAA.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
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STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- I have to admit, I expected NCAA president Mark Emmert to march out in military uniform, epaulets gleaming, and pronounce that he should be addressed as Generalissimo.


That press release Sunday, in which the NCAA announced that it would hand down punitive and corrective penalties to Penn State on Monday without its Committee on Infractions ever calling a meeting to order, sounded like the worst form of administrative justice. As anyone who has ever followed an infractions case knows, the NCAA may not use due process, but there is a process that evolves in due time. It can make the tortoise look like the hare -- ask USC. But the NCAA president is not a commissioner. He doesn't wield the imperial power of a Roger Goodell.

The announcement Sunday indicated that the NCAA would ignore its own rules -- not just the procedures but the entirety of the rulebook. Generalissimo Emmert had created his own shopping mall of justice -- a Banana Republic and a Gap. There was all the enforcement that came before Penn State, and there was Penn State.

You can read the hundreds of pages of the NCAA manual from now until the Nittany Lions run onto the field to play Ohio on Sept. 1, and you won't find a single rule that Penn State violated in this case. If that doesn't mean anything, why have a rulebook?

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ps-handing-penn-state-nittany-lions-sanctions
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
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So now we know the NCAA penalty for allowing a coach to sexually assault boys.

It is a university's football program being stripped of all victories from 1998 through 2011, a four-year postseason ban and the loss of 10 scholarships annually for the same period of time. That, and a $60 million fine.

But even with the devastating punishment that Penn State received Monday for disgraced coach Joe Paterno and other school officials’ failure to stop former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky from molesting children, it is an insult to try to quantify his victims’ suffering by means of a silly game. It is also exactly why the NCAA and its president, Mark Emmert, shouldn’t have selfishly taken the unprecedented step of involving itself in a matter for the courts.

Yet there was Emmert grandstanding about Penn State being the NCAA’s “gut-check message” for schools to determine whether they have the proper balance in their culture.


http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefoo...terno-Jerry-Sandusky-child-molestation-072312
 

Theb

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
3,533
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STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- I have to admit, I expected NCAA president Mark Emmert to march out in military uniform, epaulets gleaming, and pronounce that he should be addressed as Generalissimo.


That press release Sunday, in which the NCAA announced that it would hand down punitive and corrective penalties to Penn State on Monday without its Committee on Infractions ever calling a meeting to order, sounded like the worst form of administrative justice. As anyone who has ever followed an infractions case knows, the NCAA may not use due process, but there is a process that evolves in due time. It can make the tortoise look like the hare -- ask USC. But the NCAA president is not a commissioner. He doesn't wield the imperial power of a Roger Goodell.

The announcement Sunday indicated that the NCAA would ignore its own rules -- not just the procedures but the entirety of the rulebook. Generalissimo Emmert had created his own shopping mall of justice -- a Banana Republic and a Gap. There was all the enforcement that came before Penn State, and there was Penn State.

You can read the hundreds of pages of the NCAA manual from now until the Nittany Lions run onto the field to play Ohio on Sept. 1, and you won't find a single rule that Penn State violated in this case. If that doesn't mean anything, why have a rulebook?

http://espn.go.com/college-football...ps-handing-penn-state-nittany-lions-sanctions

It's not a bad article... in its entirety.

But then His Excellency spoke Monday morning, and it became clear why the NCAA came down so harshly so quickly on Penn State. Emmert and the university presidents who form the NCAA's executive committee saw this case as unprecedented. They saw that it had nothing to do with rules infractions. They saw the model of intercollegiate athletics as we know it at stake.

"There remains a sense of urgency in resolving this case, period," Emmert said. "It wasn't driven by the fall semester or the upcoming football season. The timing was simply that, following the work of both the criminal investigators and the Freeh report, the information was there. There was no compelling reason to delay the process."

"It was a unanimous sense," Oregon State president Ed Ray, the chair of the executive committee, said Monday. "We needed to act, and we needed to act quickly and effectively."

Every 20 years or so, university presidents rise from their slumber and reassert that they are in charge of the balls and the shoulder pads. In the early '90s, they reacted to the SMU death penalty by overhauling the NCAA structure. And now, in a visceral reaction to the Penn State scandal, the executive committee has leveled the harshest penalties short of the SMU case in NCAA history.

The presidents felt as if they are at war with an alien culture in which football made the decisions and the university kowtowed to it. That is antithetical to everything that the NCAA model represents, and a little too close to the truth for presidents to stomach. The smart ones live with the hypocrisy every day, secure in the knowledge that athletics unite the university community and create a spirit that builds buildings and fills laboratories.

When that hypocrisy resulted in a pedophile remaining at large, the university presidents didn't like what they saw, especially in the mirror. They lashed out as if they had been attacked.

As statements go, a $60 million fine, 40 scholarships, a four-year bowl ban and 112 vacated wins is right up there with the Magna Carta. The presidents put down new stakes on their property line. They are in charge. The importance of that principle supersedes any other consideration. If the Penn State players want to play in a bowl, they can leave their coaches and their classes and their friends and go somewhere else. (This case may be unprecedented, but as usual in the NCAA model, the current Penn State coaches and players are the victims of their predecessors' actions.)

Moreover, the culture the presidents attacked at Penn State no longer exists. What is left of Penn State is not a combatant. Former president Graham Spanier has been fired and disgraced. Former vice president Gary Schultz and athletic director Tim Curley will be on trial for perjury. Joe Paterno's memory has been stained, a scar bandaged in chain-link fencing where his statue once stood. The university will be in hock for millions in liability payments to the victims abused on its campus and because of its failure to see what is in plain view in hindsight.

It remains possible that the Freeh report didn't come down from Mount Sinai on stone tablets. The NCAA famously doesn't have subpoena power, yet it acted before the three central figures in the Penn State case who are still living have the opportunity to defend themselves -- and speak publicly -- in court. The Paterno family maintains that the whole story has not emerged.

The principle that the presidents are defending, that they are in charge, is worth defending. Nothing would have been lost if they had waited long enough for the remaining avenues to be explored.

Emmert and the presidents didn't care to wait. Let's hope that their impatience doesn't get in the way of their intentions.

Do you understand the point he was making?
 
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lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
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I am not holding my breath that it will change the culture overall. Even with this I still sense that many think, "It will never happen to us." I also get the sense that, while we will not see another Joe Pa in years served, power coaches still will lord over campuses and project a fearful culture that does not want to rock the boat—which again brings me back to faculty who can fight back with academic freedom and tenure.

While I hope this will be a cautionary tale and other schools will finally get control of their athletic departments—I am not getting that feeling. Will a president or AD truly stand up to a power coach and the fallout from disciplining him/her (Arkansas AD Jeff Long not withstanding)? I am not so sure, but at the very least this is a wake up call to all of us that a person or program is not bigger than the institution and I would love the NCAA to pursue things like an anti-trust exemption to reign in salaries and also instill academic disclosure to insure education is happening.

[NCAA president] Mark Emmert was a bit self serving [Monday] and almost made me gag because there are so many other issues that caused this culture that enabled Paterno and Sandusky. Those things are not being addressed ( again academic corruption, money, corporate sell outs, etc.)

-Dave Ridpath