Penn State protects child rapist that was former famous D-Coordinator

[preslove]

To those who think that the death penalty would have been a stiffer punishment I suggest reading this:

http://www.barkingcarnival.com/2012...ls-sanctions-death-would-have-been-a-kindness

For those that only follow college football casually, the scholarship restrictions will destroy the program for much longer than the death penalty would have.

I'm slowly coming around to this idea. The fact that this is 4 years of serious probation makes this really severe. Probably more than one year of not playing.

 

[zinfamous]

The statement was implied that students subsidized PSU football. That is not the case. PSU football paid for itself and then some.

of course it did. but the revenue generated by football, after all football costs accounted for, all AD costs accounted for, that actually went to the university (being that PSU AD /= PSU)...is $60mill.

That is the revenue that PSU sees from PSU football, on a yearly basis. That is it. 60 million dollars towards an institution that has a 4.1 billion dollar budget.

This is why the NCAA fine was $60 million--because that is the revenue of PSU football.


this has been repeated with numbers and tables and finances so often in this thread--that PSU football revenue is squat to the university--that I wonder why we have to keep reminding people this.

 

[Zargon]

kick out PedState, bump Minnesota down to Division II since they regularly get beaten by D-II teams anyway, boom 10 teams

you have to kick michigan then too :ninja:

The Big 10 has 12 members. It used to be called the little 11 because it had 11 teams, but then they added Nebraska.

I guess it's too confusing to use the actual number of teams.

who called it the little 11? I've never heard that before

I wonder about those conspiracy theory rumors that Sandusky, through the Second Mile, was pimping out boys to wealthy pederast donors.

not that what happened didnt seem far fetched...but thats a whole other level of out there is its remotely true

 

[Deeko]

of course it did. but the revenue generated by football, after all football costs accounted for, all AD costs accounted for, that actually went to the university (being that PSU AD /= PSU)...is $60mill.

That is the revenue that PSU sees from PSU football, on a yearly basis. That is it. 60 million dollars towards an institution that has a 4.1 billion dollar budget.

This is why the NCAA fine was $60 million--because that is the revenue of PSU football.


this has been repeated with numbers and tables and finances so often in this thread--that PSU football revenue is squat to the university--that I wonder why we have to keep reminding people this.

You're entirely missing the point. Hugo Drax made it sound like football is a financial drain on the system, and that regular students are paying for it with their tuition. That is not the case. It not only pays for itself, it makes money, making his claim invalid. That's all.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

of course it did. but the revenue generated by football, after all football costs accounted for, all AD costs accounted for, that actually went to the university (being that PSU AD /= PSU)...is $60mill.

That is the revenue that PSU sees from PSU football, on a yearly basis. That is it. 60 million dollars towards an institution that has a 4.1 billion dollar budget.

This is why the NCAA fine was $60 million--because that is the revenue of PSU football.


this has been repeated with numbers and tables and finances so often in this thread--that PSU football revenue is squat to the university--that I wonder why we have to keep reminding people this.

This seems like a somewhat disingenous way of reporting the statistics. The $4.1 billion must include the budget for the athletic department and football program as well, but we don't get a breakdown on what their specific budget requirements are. Similarly, the $60 million in added revenue may not seem like a lot against a $4.1 billion budget, but we don't know if this is a $10 million program taking in $70 million or a $200 million program taking in $260 million. Either way, Penn State is still going to be on a budgetary hook for the football team going forward, they just won't get to see any revenue generated from it, which puts a bigger strain on them to make up that $60 million they could normally use towards programs which don't generate revenue.

 

[zinfamous]

You're entirely missing the point. Hugo Drax made it sound like football is a financial drain on the system, and that regular students are paying for it with their tuition. That is not the case. It not only pays for itself, it makes money, making his claim invalid. That's all.

Oh I see. :thumbsup:

 

[zinfamous]

This seems like a somewhat disingenous way of reporting the statistics. The $4.1 billion must include the budget for the athletic department and football program as well, but we don't get a breakdown on what their specific budget requirements are. Similarly, the $60 million in added revenue may not seem like a lot against a $4.1 billion budget, but we don't know if this is a $10 million program taking in $70 million or a $200 million program taking in $260 million. Either way, Penn State is still going to be on a budgetary hook for the football team going forward, they just won't get to see any revenue generated from it, which puts a bigger strain on them to make up that $60 million they could normally use towards programs which don't generate revenue.

BOOM. stop right there.


Not at PSU.

at PSU, like only other 2 or 3 other D1 universities, the AD is entirely separate from the academic arm of the University. They have their own budget, and are entirely responsible for it themselves. This is one of the things that makes PSU rather unique.

This is why I have repeatedly mentioned that fact, time and time again, throughout this thread b/c it is very important in discussing football revenue at PSU...so as not to appear to be reporting things in a disingenuous manner.

IIRC, it's a roughly $350 mill (cost of football only) program, taking in some $500-600 million annually. All of that goes to cover football costs first, then the rest of the AD--all sports prgrams operating budget.

After that, PSU sees $60 million.

$600 million is nothing to sneeze at, but again, PSU never sees anything like that, ever.

 

[cubby1223]

This seems like a somewhat disingenous way of reporting the statistics. The $4.1 billion must include the budget for the athletic department and football program as well, but we don't get a breakdown on what their specific budget requirements are. Similarly, the $60 million in added revenue may not seem like a lot against a $4.1 billion budget, but we don't know if this is a $10 million program taking in $70 million or a $200 million program taking in $260 million. Either way, Penn State is still going to be on a budgetary hook for the football team going forward, they just won't get to see any revenue generated from it, which puts a bigger strain on them to make up that $60 million they could normally use towards programs which don't generate revenue.

PSU has a hospital that generates far more money for them than the athletic department. I actually wouldn't be surprised if they could pull in the extra revenue from there to make up for the $60m fine.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

IIRC, it's a roughly $350 mill (cost of football only) program, taking in some $500-600 million annually. All of that goes to cover football costs first, then the rest of the AD--all sports prgrams operating budget.

After that, PSU sees $60 million.

$600 million is nothing to sneeze at, but again, PSU never sees anything like that, ever.

Jesus God, that's a lot of money. No wonder the people who run these things try so hard to sweep problems under the rug. It also underscores the absurdity of the argument that "pay for play" would be detrimental for student athletes. College athletics in this country has gotten insane.

 

[Phokus]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...s-open-season-to-pluck-penn-state-players/rss

"It's open season boys!"

 

[Phokus]

Oh look, tremendous racism/homophobia from penn state fans for absolutely no reason, also victim blaming.

http://deadspin.com/5928385/i-hope-...-penn-state-punishment?tag=penn-state-scandal

There's a reason why they call everything between pittsburgh and philadelphia 'pennsyltucky'.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Oh look, tremendous racism/homophobia from penn state fans for absolutely no reason, also victim blaming.

http://deadspin.com/5928385/i-hope-...-penn-state-punishment?tag=penn-state-scandal

There's a reason why they call everything between pittsburgh and philadelphia 'pennsyltucky'.

Imagine that! I took advantage of that link to send nasty tweets and FB messages to the guys who made racist posts. Morons . . .

 

[lupi]

The NCAA was started to look after health concerns of the student athlete. It has evolved to making its living on a shame claim of monitoring competitive balance while trying to maximize championship/bowl games as the source of its revenue.

And its still a bullshit move that they levied this punishments out of some self sanctimonious purpose to make itself look good. Don't recall such actions when a player murdered another player under NCAA watch.


As Le Batard said "is anyone concerned that the NCAA thundered out of its jurisdiction into this decision to take the role of the morality police. I want the NCAA to have less power. Do we want another Goodel."


And it seems the president is a ballless sack of shit. Heard reports that he offered unconditional acceptance of thee penalties if it didn't involve the death penalty, without contacting all or most of the board before hand. Hopefully this gets his sorry ass booted.

And let's not forget this is the same pathetic body that took half a decade to decide Reggie Bush was bad, but this somehow seems ok, yeah right.

 

[lupi]

Why the NCAA's Sanctions on Penn State Are Just Dead Wrong



D
At 9 this morning, a crime took place m

Emmert sounds righteous. He’s also dead wrong. His decision will

Today marked a stomach-turning, precedent-setting and lawless turning poin

Take a step back from the hysteria and just think about what took

What Penn State did was commit horrific violations of criminal and c

Speaking anonymously to ESPN, a former prominent NCAA official said, “Thi

Or as Yahoo! Sports’ Pat Forde said succinctly, “Emmert seems determine

Emmert justifies this by saying Penn State “lost institutional contro

The discussion we should be having is how to organize the outrage of the Penn State campus and the people of Pennsylvania to expel the entire Board of Trustees. Just as the statue of Coach Paterno came tumbling down in the name of turning the page at Penn State, the board should follow. We should be talking about how to push for a full investigation of Governor Tom Corbett and his own extra-slow-motion investigation of Sandusky when he was the state’s attorney general. Former Governor Ed Rendell, as a board trustee during Sandusky’s continued presence on campus, should be subpoenaed as well. But instead, we get the maiming of Penn State’s athletic budget for the grand purpose of turning Mark Emmert and the NCAA into something they have no legal right to be. Private, unaccountable actors have no business cutting the budgets of a public campus. Today’s move by Emmert didn’t bring justice to any of Sandusky’s victims. It didn’t help clean house at Penn State. Instead it was extra-legal, extrajudicial and stinks to high heavenl” of the football program. Tragically, the opposite is the case here. There was so much control a serial child rapist was able to have his tracks covered for—at least—thirteen years. He is instead using this canard of “institutional control” to justify an abrogation of public budgets, public universities and, most critically, public oversight.d to go where no NCAA president has gone before.”s is unique and this kind of power has never been tested or tried. It’s unprecedented to have this extensive power. This has nothing to do with the purpose of the infractions process. Nevertheless, somehow [the NCAA president and executive board] have taken it on themselves to be a commissioner and to penalize a school for improper conduct.”ivil laws, and it should pay every possible price for shielding Sandusky, the child rapist. This is why we have a society with civil and criminal courts. Instead, we have Mark Emmert inserting himself in a criminal matter and acting as judge, jury and executioner, in the style of NFL commissioner Roger Goodell. As much as I can’t stand Goodell’s authoritarian, undemocratic methods, the NFL is a private corporation and his method of punishment was collectively bargained with the NFL Players Association. Emmert, heading up the so-called nonprofit NCAA, is intervening with his own personal judgment and cutting the budget of a public university. He has no right, and every school under the auspices of the NCAA should be terrified that he believes he does. place: Penn State committed no violations of any NCAA bylaws. There were no secret payments to “student-athletes,” no cheating on tests, no improper phone calls, no using cream cheese instead of butter on a recruit’s bagel, or any of the Byzantine minutiae that fills the time-sheets that justify Mark Emmert’s $1.6 million salary.t in the history of the NCAA. The punishment levied by Emmert was nothing less than an extra-legal, extrajudicial imposition into the affairs of a publicly funded campus. If allowed to stand, the repercussions will be felt far beyond Happy Valley. of course gut Penn State athletics. It will also create a siege mentality among PSU alumni causing a rush of donations that, I bet, will make up the difference in a week. It’s a farcical public relations move that distracts the public from actually holding to account those responsible for protecting Sandusky. Former FBI director Louis Freeh had said that the root of the problem was the “culture of reverence” for football. Penn State did more to confront this culture of reverence by taking down their statue of Joe Paterno on Sunday than Mark Emmert did today. If anything, Emmert strengthened that culture of reverence by choosing to grab the spotlight and bathe the NCAA in its saintly glow. But that’s not the only reason Mark Emmert’s decision should be opposed. That’s just the farce. We also have the crime.asquerading as a farce. NCAA President Mark Emmert, a man who in 2010 called Joe Paterno “the definitive role model of what it means to be a college coach,” levied a series of unprecedented sanctions against the football program Paterno built, the Penn State Nittany Lions. Emmert determined that the entire program had to suffer because of the role the late Coach Paterno, along with other leading school officials, played in covering the tracks of serial pedophile Jerry Sandusky. That collective suffering will mean a $60 million fine, a four-year post-season ban and the vacating of all wins from 1998–2011. He said piously, “Programs and individuals must not overwhelm the values of higher education.” It’s not “the death penalty,” also known as the end of the football program, but it’s life without the possibility of parole.ave Zirin on July 23, 2012 - 9:17 AM ET

 

[cronos]

lupi can you give us the link too, please.

 

[lupi]

http://www.thenation.com/blog/169002/why-ncaas-sanctions-penn-state-are-just-dead-wrong

 

[lupi]

Jay Bilas:************* What the NCAA did today, I think it causes more problems than it solves, and what they’re really doing was shoehorning this case into sort of these broad provision in the constitution and bylaws that don’t really fit. This is way beyond the scope and reach of the NCAA and to the point this is such a horrific criminal matter that anything the NCAA does looks trivial by comparison, What really sets me aback is Emmert hammering the institution but leaving the individual untouched. They circumvented their own rules and really threw out their rulebook and decided to take this action. What they should have done is put show cause penalties on the individuals

 

[HendrixFan]

Way off base, lupi. This is an institution that had a member (Sandusky) use his resources to rape children. He used his affiliation with the school and its property to engage in these acts. When discovered, more high ranking members of the institution decided to cover up the issue, and still allowed Sandusky to use the facilities to rape children.

This isn't simply a case of child rape going on, from the NCAA's perspective. This is a case where everything the football program was built to be was being used as a conduit to rape children. This is a fact. The NCAA cannot allow schools to use their money, power, prestige and facilities to rape children.

It is sickening reading the depraved and ignorant rants of the media who don't understand that.

 

[Jeffg010]

To those who think that the death penalty would have been a stiffer punishment I suggest reading this:

http://www.barkingcarnival.com/2012...ls-sanctions-death-would-have-been-a-kindness

For those that only follow college football casually, the scholarship restrictions will destroy the program for much longer than the death penalty would have.

"The secret beauty of a death penalty is that a program absorbs the hit in one devastating blow and is cleansed. Once you get past the blow, the slate is clean, you can sell high quality recruits on starting as a freshman (with a team that will be in bowls by the time they're juniors) and you can sell a very specific vision built around rebirth, early playing time, and being celebrated forever as the men who restored honor to Penn State football. To this day, Rick Pitino's Unforgettables are more beloved in Kentucky than any national title team."


This guy knows what he is talking about. Everyone saying we can't have a nuke because it will hurt to many people bla bla bla. We will just watch Penn State limp along for then next 10 years I'm sure that be better for every in the long run.

 

[preslove]

There's no arguing with Lupi. He is just like all of the other dissemblers and Penn State apologists, stone cold stupid.

 

[cronos]

http://www.thenation.com/blog/169002/why-ncaas-sanctions-penn-state-are-just-dead-wrong

Thanks.

Jay Bilas:************* What the NCAA did today, I think it causes more problems than it solves, and what they’re really doing was shoehorning this case into sort of these broad provision in the constitution and bylaws that don’t really fit. This is way beyond the scope and reach of the NCAA and to the point this is such a horrific criminal matter that anything the NCAA does looks trivial by comparison, What really sets me aback is Emmert hammering the institution but leaving the individual untouched. They circumvented their own rules and really threw out their rulebook and decided to take this action. What they should have done is put show cause penalties on the individuals

I read a few of Jay Bilas' comments yesterday. Looking back trying to think when was the last time I heard him commenting about college football (never), I couldn't help but thinking that he was 'assigned' by ESPN to be the devil's advocate in this issue. I'm not saying he's not genuine, but when ESPN figured out that they have an employee with opinion against these NCAA's sanctions, they put him out there as their balancing measure of sort.

I personally think NCAA staying out of punishing individuals in this case is really smart. They leave the individuals for the criminal proceedings (NCAA sanctions like show cause penalties, etc won't matter if these individuals ended up going to prison for 5-10 years, not to mention Joe is dead and nobody can touch him individually so hell yeah let's go after his records), and focus on punishing the institution. If you watched the interview with the reporters after they announced the sanctions, this was mentioned several times.

 

[surfsatwerk]

There's no arguing with Lupi. He is just like all of the other dissemblers and Penn State apologists, stone cold stupid.

It's not being an "apologist" to say the NCAA is power mad and out of control. The problems at Penn State should be dealt with in a court of law not the court that took Reggie Bush's trophy back after ten years or bans kids for getting free tattoos.

 

[HendrixFan]

It's not being an "apologist" to say the NCAA is power mad and out of control. The problems at Penn State should be dealt with in a court of law not the court that took Reggie Bush's trophy back after ten years or bans kids for getting free tattoos.

There are criminal matters that the courts will decide. However, this isn't simply a case of an employee committing a crime. It was the entire system being used to funnel disadvantaged youths into facilities to be raped, and everyone at the highest levels being complicit in it.

It was the coverup that did in Penn State, the entire 15 years of it and the untold number of kids that were raped as a result of them choosing to put the football program ahead of children.

That more than qualifies for the "Ethics and integrity clause" the NCAA has.

FWIW, without the Freeh report the NCAA wouldn't have had the evidence it needed for such actions. They aren't a law enforcement agency so they can't subpoena anything. That is part of why Auburn, USC and Ohio St were able to get by relatively unscathed in their actions.

 

[Icepick]

The NCAA was started to look after health concerns of the student athlete. It has evolved to making its living on a shame claim of monitoring competitive balance while trying to maximize championship/bowl games as the source of its revenue.

And its still a bullshit move that they levied this punishments out of some self sanctimonious purpose to make itself look good. Don't recall such actions when a player murdered another player under NCAA watch.


As Le Batard said "is anyone concerned that the NCAA thundered out of its jurisdiction into this decision to take the role of the morality police. I want the NCAA to have less power. Do we want another Goodel."


And it seems the president is a ballless sack of shit. Heard reports that he offered unconditional acceptance of thee penalties if it didn't involve the death penalty, without contacting all or most of the board before hand. Hopefully this gets his sorry ass booted.

And let's not forget this is the same pathetic body that took half a decade to decide Reggie Bush was bad, but this somehow seems ok, yeah right.

The punishment wasn't severe enough. The fines should have been higher. They should have dismantled their football program as well. There are plenty of other sports played at Ped State to fill the void.

 

[surfsatwerk]

There are criminal matters that the courts will decide. However, this isn't simply a case of an employee committing a crime. It was the entire system being used to funnel disadvantaged youths into facilities to be raped, and everyone at the highest levels being complicit in it.

It was the coverup that did in Penn State, the entire 15 years of it and the untold number of kids that were raped as a result of them choosing to put the football program ahead of children.

That more than qualifies for the "Ethics and integrity clause" the NCAA has.

FWIW, without the Freeh report the NCAA wouldn't have had the evidence it needed for such actions. They aren't a law enforcement agency so they can't subpoena anything. That is part of why Auburn, USC and Ohio St were able to get by relatively unscathed in their actions.

I respect what you're saying and I don't think you're wrong, I just have a difference of opinion. I don't see this this as a "football" problem. This was a criminal conspiracy committed by individuals who used Penn State football and the power and position it gave them to live above the law.

How do you punish a "system" when all it did wrong was exist? *edit: I don't think I'm wording the last sentence right to communicate what I'm thinking* The people who were supposed to be in charge failed the system. Any punitive action that does not put Spanier, Paterno, Sandusky, etc... at the front is a joke in my opinion.