Penn State protects child rapist that was former famous D-Coordinator

[TheVrolok]

Ah but when you start to bring sociologic causes into the discussion about why a college football team became more important than protecting children from a potential pedophile, this idea was not born solely in the mind of Joe Paterno or of the VP of the school. It was supported and enforced by the community. These kids that are bullying Victim #1 are not just doing so because he was raped, but because he was responsible for the firing of Joe Paterno. He is being persecuted because of who is involved, not what was involved.

If you want to stretch things into the realm of culpability for sociological issues, then why not just say every college football fan around the nation is partly to blame for promoting the "college football culture." After all, it takes more than 1 school to drive the competition and craze for the sport.

No. Every fan that is more incensed over Paterno being fired than they are over his culpability and the program's history of sheltering this rapist are part of the problem.

very much so.

Such people do not deserve a football team--as their priorities are clearly out of whack.

it perplexes me that many seem confounded by the possibility that PSU loses football over this case, yet are pretty much OK with strict sanctions and DP for programs engaged in ethical violations that have no legal bearing.

amazing.

Sure, any fan who is more angry over the firing of JoePa than over the travesty unfolding has some misaligned priorities, but I don't think that is the majority. The web of culpability can only be stretched within reason, extending it to cover all PSU fans is just silly.

I think the issue here is that the players had absolutely nothing to do with this, and the death penalty/NCAA sanctions effect them the most. Those responsible were in the administration/coaching and the house will continue to be cleansed. Removing football would cause far more harm to those who had absolutely nothing to do with the wrongdoings. I could see the NCAA coming down hard on PSU (football) to make a statement, I just don't think it's the right thing to do.

 

[preslove]

No. Every fan that is more incensed over Paterno being fired than they are over his culpability and the program's history of sheltering this rapist are part of the problem.

very much so.

Such people do not deserve a football team--as their priorities are clearly out of whack.

it perplexes me that many seem confounded by the possibility that PSU loses football over this case, yet are pretty much OK with strict sanctions and DP for programs engaged in ethical violations that have no legal bearing.

amazing.

So much this.

"Student athlete" gets money from a booster?
PROBATION! GIVE US BACK OUR TROPHY, YOU SCUMBAG!

1 coach is a pederast & 2 other coaches know about it, as do the heads of the athletics department AND the university? No one calls the cops?
We shouldn't hurt the players, so lets not do anything.


Innocent USC players got shafted for Reggie Bush's rules violation. These two incidents are on completely different ethical planets. If the NCAA wants to keep any credibility, they have to seriously punish Penn St.

If Penn St. had their candle light vigil for the victims, but refrained from RIOTING over the firing of their disgraced football coach, then I might have been able to find some sympathy for the football fans.

Not now, and certainly not after a victim has been bullied out of school.

 

[TheVrolok]

So much this.

"Student athlete" gets money from a booster?
PROBATION! GIVE US BACK OUR TROPHY, YOU SCUMBAG!

1 coach is a pederast & 2 other coaches know about it, as do the heads of the athletics department AND the university? No one calls the cops?
We shouldn't hurt the players, so lets not do anything.


Innocent USC players got shafted for Reggie Bush's rules violation. These two incidents are on completely different ethical planets. If the NCAA wants to keep any credibility, they have to seriously punish Penn St.

If Penn St. had their candle light vigil for the victims, but refrained from RIOTING over the firing of their disgraced football coach, then I might have been able to find some sympathy for the football fans.

Not now, and certainly not after a victim has been bullied out of school.

Not necessarily an argument in any regard toward any NCAA violation, more of a statement of fact, but the PSU students did raise somewhere around $70k the day of the Nebraska game, and alumni have raised somewhere near $500k for victims of child abuse. It would be nice if some of the positive fan reaction received half the media coverage that the negative reaction gets.

 

[Stuxnet]

the investigation is on-going. let's not jump to conclusions there, Mr Snappy.

Try not to make any assumptions about my position there, champ. I never said the investigation was over. Other than rabid Penn State fans, I don't think anyone has a problem with crucifying anyone involved in the cover up. What I'm against, however, is crucifying those who weren't. Sorry I won't join your witch hunt.

Here's the glaringly obvious problem with your opinion... what has been already done (the removal of people involved in the cover up) doesn't even begin to address the crimes committed against even a single victim of Sandusky.

The the glaringly obvious problem with your statement here is that you insinuate some sort of illogical connection between addressing the crimes committed against the victims and the cancellation of Penn State's football program. This may come as a shock to you, but torching the program won't help a single victim. But you don't care about that... all you see is red (understandable) and you need a group of collective necks around which to hang this mess; Penn State's program fits the bill apparently (not understandable). You're no better than a DA who just needs a perp to point to, facts, logic, and evidence be damned. Don't forget to sharpen your pitchfork.

The people responsible will surely have their asses sued to hell and back, lose said asses, and the victims will likely receive all the money they could ever hope for (which I believe they deserve). Again, sorry I won't join your witch hunt. It's not productive and it punishes hundreds of thousands of people who had nothing to do with these crimes. Your argument is one step shy of suggesting we destroy anyone who owns a Penn State sweatshirt. You're every bit as delusional and narrow minded as the idiot students who rioted over Paterno's firing. Neither you nor them has a shred of perspective.

Also, the death penalty has been used once, and the NCAA has regretted it ever since. You think there's some sort of precedent for what you're proposing, but there's not.

College football certainly needs to be knocked down a rung or two - I'm all for that. But I'd prefer to not just trade one extreme/dangerous ideology for another.

Try to keep your head about you.

 

[blankslate]

Not necessarily an argument in any regard toward any NCAA violation, more of a statement of fact, but the PSU students did raise somewhere around $70k the day of the Nebraska game, and alumni have raised somewhere near $500k for victims of child abuse. It would be nice if some of the positive fan reaction received half the media coverage that the negative reaction gets.

The money raised is admirable but they're also standing around letting idiots display their "we love Patterno even though he ignored a child molester in our midst" banners

Unfortunately that's going to detract from admirable deeds. The students who raised the money should grab those Patterno "I turn a blind eye to child abuse" supporting banners and burn them then explain why they did so.

The positive fan reaction now gets the majority of the attention.

 

[TheVrolok]

The money raised is admirable but they're also standing around letting idiots display their "we love Patterno even though he ignored a child molester in our midst" banners

Unfortunately that's going to detract from admirable deeds. The students who raised the money should grab those Patterno "I turn a blind eye to child abuse" supporting banners and burn them then explain why they did so.

The positive fan reaction now gets the majority of the attention.

To be fair, I think it's more of a "we love Paterno and still can't believe he would simply ignore this, so we're going to hold out hope until an actual investigation is done into Paterno's total involvement is proven one way or the other." I'm not sure there's a whole lot of reason for any sort of hope of redemption for Joe, but the investigation isn't over either. Unfortunately it seems the a vocal minority of bad deeds will always get more coverage than good deeds. Just seems to sell papers better.

 

[zinfamous]

I think the issue here is that the players had absolutely nothing to do with this, and the death penalty/NCAA sanctions effect them the most. Those responsible were in the administration/coaching and the house will continue to be cleansed. Removing football would cause far more harm to those who had absolutely nothing to do with the wrongdoings. I could see the NCAA coming down hard on PSU (football) to make a statement, I just don't think it's the right thing to do.

I agree with that, and always have in this thread. And as I said before, those responsible should have taken into consideration the repercussions of their actions, as they are responsible for more than just themselves.

Shame for the players, yep. Too bad their supposed leaders fucked them over so royally.

 

[preslove]

To be fair, I think it's more of a "we love Paterno and still can't believe he would simply ignore this, so we're going to hold out hope until an actual investigation is done into Paterno's total involvement is proven one way or the other." I'm not sure there's a whole lot of reason for any sort of hope of redemption for Joe, but the investigation isn't over either. Unfortunately it seems the a vocal minority of bad deeds will always get more coverage than good deeds. Just seems to sell papers better.

Unfortunately, "bullying" victims is a good way for people to get an acquittal. It's hard for normal nobodies to stand in public and say that a powerful, beloved figure is a criminal. Rioting and harassing the victim at school are very intimidating.

And disgusting.

I don't think that every school would have had riots had their coach been fired. Not every school would have swept this under the rug. Not every coach would have let this monster live free (next to a god damn elementary school) for 10 years.

Hopefully our flawed legal system can work for once against a powerful group of people. They have quite the powerful old boy network to work against in that corrupt valley.

 

[preslove]

I agree with that, and always have in this thread. And as I said before, those responsible should have taken into consideration the repercussions of their actions, as they are responsible for more than just themselves.

Shame for the players, yep. Too bad their supposed leaders fucked them over so royally.

If you can't understand this, then something is wrong with you. This entire matter is fucked up. It will have huge repercussions. Far more than if those {so and sos} in charge of Penn State had gone to the police in the first place. Some times doing the right thing sucks. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

When you send a father to prison, it really fucks over his kid. That's not a valid reason for letting the dad off, though. Do you people really not understand this?

 

[TheVrolok]

Unfortunately, "bullying" victims is a good way for people to get an acquittal. It's hard for normal nobodies to stand in public and say that a powerful, beloved figure is a criminal. Rioting and harassing the victim at school are very intimidating.

And disgusting.

Again, though, this was a group of high school kids. Not in any way representative of the PSU fanbase. Even the students rioting, I'll be generous and say 15,000 students rioted (a likely heavy overestimation), are in no way indicative of the feelings/behavior of the entire fan base of what, say a couple million? There were also thousands of people raising money, speaking out against PSU, but they haven't gotten coverage. Bad stories get more press than good ones, that's just the way of things.

 

[TheVrolok]

When you send a father to prison, it really fucks over his kid. That's not a valid reason for letting the dad off, though. Do you people really not understand this?

This is not analogous to sanctioning the PSU football program, though. I absolutely support cleaning house in the PSU admin/coaching staffs, but not punishing the players. To correct your analogy, you would have to then go on and say that not only should the father be locked up, but the kids should also be stripped of all their possessions and thrown out on the street for their father's transgression.

 

[preslove]

This is not analogous to sanctioning the PSU football program, though. I absolutely support cleaning house in the PSU admin/coaching staffs, but not punishing the players. To correct your analogy, you would have to then go on and say that not only should the father be locked up, but the kids should also be stripped of all their possessions and thrown out on the street for their father's transgression.

Having to move to a cheaper place and sell your shit is not an unlikely outcome from your dad going to prison.

Again, innocent USC players were fucked over when their school went on probation because of an infraction they had nothing to do with.

For some fucked up (and morally repugnant) reason, you think that it's ok to punish those USC players, but not Penn State players when the people who the ran their program covered up child rape.

You can not have a moral compass and believe that Reggie Bush accepting cash while an "amateur" warrants punishment while believing the people in charge of Penn St. allowing a child molester to frolic on their campus does not. Something is wrong with you. You have no sense of right and wrong.

You value football above accountability. Pathetic.

 

[preslove]

Again, though, this was a group of high school kids. Not in any way representative of the PSU fanbase. Even the students rioting, I'll be generous and say 15,000 students rioted (a likely heavy overestimation), are in no way indicative of the feelings/behavior of the entire fan base of what, say a couple million? There were also thousands of people raising money, speaking out against PSU, but they haven't gotten coverage. Bad stories get more press than good ones, that's just the way of things.

15,000 is about 1/3 of the school's enrollment. If 1/3 of your school are scummy enough to riot in that situation, then you have rather putrid environment.

I grew up in Gainesville, FL. If Steve Spurrier had been fired in this situation 1/3rd of UF would have rioted. Of course, I don't think UF's AD and president would have covered this up.

 

[TheVrolok]

Having to move to a cheaper place and sell your shit is not an unlikely outcome from your dad going to prison.

Again, innocent USC players were fucked over when their school went on probation because of an infraction they had nothing to do with.

For some fucked up (and morally repugnant) reason, you think that it's ok to punish those USC players, but not Penn State players when the people who the ran their program covered up child rape.

You can not have a moral compass and believe that Reggie Bush accepting cash while an "amateur" warrants punishment while believing the people in charge of Penn St. allowing a child molester to frolic on their campus does not. Something is wrong with you. You have no sense of right and wrong.

You value football above accountability. Pathetic.

The difference here is that 0 players were in any way involved. Of course I don't think Bush's incident is of a greater moral repugnance than Sandusky's and the ensuing cover up; that's just silly. However his infraction was player involved and directly related to football, Sandusky's was not. I'm not arguing the morality of the situation, simply the specifics. Also, I never believed USC deserved what it got for Bush's rule violation, but the NCAA does what it does. If they finish their investigation of PSU and lay down some sanctions for violation of ethics codes, I may not agree with the punishment either, but I'll understand it. So it's not that I think, in any way, that USC deserved punishment more than PSU.

 

[Possessed Freak]

Being an employee at PSU I get all sorts of updates from the new president and whatnot. I did not see this listed, but I will take it as a positive sign that PSU is *now* going to do all it can to unravel this mess...

http://live.psu.edu/story/56476

 

[TheVrolok]

15,000 is about 1/3 of the school's enrollment. If 1/3 of your school are scummy enough to riot in that situation, then you have rather putrid environment.

I grew up in Gainesville, FL. If Steve Spurrier had been fired in this situation 1/3rd of UF would have rioted. Of course, I don't think UF's AD and president would have covered this up.

Scummy enough to riot? They are drunk and emotional college kids who get caught up with whatever the cause of the night is. It was a few hundred (maybe?) bad eggs with a few thousand people standing around watching the chaos. If you grew up on Gainesville, then you know how it works.

 

[TheVrolok]

Being an employee at PSU I get all sorts of updates from the new president and whatnot. I did not see this listed, but I will take it as a positive sign that PSU is *now* going to do all it can to unravel this mess...

http://live.psu.edu/story/56476

I got the email this morning, really hope something comes of this investigation. Would be nice to have some more concrete answers, and less speculation.

 

[roguerower]

Being an employee at PSU I get all sorts of updates from the new president and whatnot. I did not see this listed, but I will take it as a positive sign that PSU is *now* going to do all it can to unravel this mess...

http://live.psu.edu/story/56476

That's a positive step. Too bad they couldn't dig up Hoover, I bet he'd get to the bottom of this within a week.

 

[waggy]

The difference here is that 0 players were in any way involved. Of course I don't think Bush's incident is of a greater moral repugnance than Sandusky's and the ensuing cover up; that's just silly. However his infraction was player involved and directly related to football, Sandusky's was not. I'm not arguing the morality of the situation, simply the specifics. Also, I never believed USC deserved what it got for Bush's rule violation, but the NCAA does what it does. If they finish their investigation of PSU and lay down some sanctions for violation of ethics codes, I may not agree with the punishment either, but I'll understand it. So it's not that I think, in any way, that USC deserved punishment more than PSU.

exactly. I want the school punished and big payouts for the victims. But to punish the players (and it would be more then the football program that takes a hit) and area with cancelling the season is wrong.

 

[zinfamous]

This is not analogous to sanctioning the PSU football program, though. I absolutely support cleaning house in the PSU admin/coaching staffs, but not punishing the players. To correct your analogy, you would have to then go on and say that not only should the father be locked up, but the kids should also be stripped of all their possessions and thrown out on the street for their father's transgression.

How about this?

--PSU football program profits over the next 5 eyars go to victims first, and to fund all scholarship athletes that transfer to another University in teh event of a non-existent PSU football team.

I don't think these kids deserve to be tossed out. The PSU admins and Football staff, responsible for destroying this program, are likewise responsible for those players, as they always have been.

Remember: this was their decision to fail the victims of rape, and the athletes that they were beholden to mentor. Therefore, the responsibility is on them.

Not sure why people keep going out of their way to support such a rotten, meaningless program. It never ends--no matter the cost, we must support our dear football program! waaaaa!

 

[Drako]

What the hell is this shit?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/s...oyed-success-and-secrecy.html?_r=1&ref=sports

Seems like Spanier was covering for more molesters at Pedo State.

 

[SP33Demon]

What the hell is this shit?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/s...oyed-success-and-secrecy.html?_r=1&ref=sports

Seems like Spanier was covering for more molesters at Pedo State.

It wouldn't surprise me if the 2nd Mile was a front for providing these sick professors with young boys. Don't live in State College unless you want your boys exploited by that sick administration.

 

[Miramonti]

More charges expected.

Not a surprise after reports of more coming forward and the court date being pushed back.

 

[TheVrolok]

Not sure why people keep going out of their way to support such a rotten, meaningless program. It never ends--no matter the cost, we must support our dear football program! waaaaa!

Maybe because outside of Sandusky (who was no longer a coach for most of the dates in the investigation), McQ, Paterno (who's true involvement has yet to be investigated aside from "once heard something about inappropriateness"), and Curry, the football program is largely innocent. So please tell me how the "program" is rotten and meaningless because of the actions of a very small few?

 

[TheVrolok]

What the hell is this shit?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/s...oyed-success-and-secrecy.html?_r=1&ref=sports

Seems like Spanier was covering for more molesters at Pedo State.

It's a lot of conjecture, honestly. Might be true, might not be; not exactly proof of anything. It's a real shame (though the appropriate legal action) the transcript wasn't allowed into evidence, would have been interesting to see what was actually said.