[PCPER] NVidia G-sync

[Erenhardt]

So, if I have an older AMD card that doesn't have CGN...what am I going to do?

What if I already have a Kepler based Nvidia card and am in the market for a new monitor? Oh, I get G-Sync capability for free!

You guys really need to just stop. You sound like brain dead zombie idiots.

Retaliation!
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/10/22/nvidia-g-sync-update-pricing-and-retrofits.aspx

Considering that the ASUS VG248 monitor that Nvidia was using was retrofitted with the G-Sync modules, and that monitor goes for $299 MSRP without G-Sync, we weren't surprised to receive a PR from ASUS stating that their MSRP for the same monitor with G-Sync is $399

 

[JAG87]

From what has been reported, G-sync has the capability of working on any video card. But it sounds as if Nvidia is going to go for another artificial lockout aka PhysX.

Good. As they should. They are not a charity organization. When you work hard at making something great, you should reap the benefits.

The only thing potentially stopping this from succeeding is how many displays will support it. A manufacturer has to consider whether or not to increase their production cost and MSRP to enable this. And the other side of the coin is, an customer may not want to be constricted to deciding between a handful of displays, none of which may satisfy their requirements in terms of resolution or color accuracy. If nvidia can somehow get the manufacturers to prep every single display to accept the module (without increasing the manufacturing cost), and then sell the module separately or bundle it with GeForce cards, you will witness the downfall of AMD in the PC market. They will survive only because of their console deals.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I find it most interesting that it can give you 30FPS gaming without issues.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Retaliation!
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/10/22/nvidia-g-sync-update-pricing-and-retrofits.aspx

Lemme know when its available on panels other than [redacted] TN.

Profanity isn't allowed in the technical forums.
-- stahlhart

 

[BrightCandle]

Hold on a second did everyone ignore the bit where I said the patent had nothing to do with gsync. There is no patent as far as I know. More to the point NVidia has said they want this to be used in response to John Carmack.

My concern is more how Tom responded to the question about other company usage but other questions fielded to Nvidia already suggest there is no reason why AMD/Whoever can not implement this. So far there is no credible information to tell us they can't. You have to have ignored the entire contents of the thread to come to a different conclusion at this point, there is a lot of evidence to tell us this is a free open to be implemented extension from the GPU side.

 

[Keysplayr]

Nah! I agree it's a great bit of tech but I'm 100% opposed to how nvidia are going about it putting it out
I also hope that those monitor manufactures who are not partnered with nvidia on this, refused on principle and are exploring an open VESA standard implementation of something similar 😉

Yeah sure. While you and them stick to your "principles" the industry is held back yet again. Way to justify things.

 

[Erenhardt]

Lemme know when its available on panels other than [redacted] TN.

I was showing fanboy definition of what "free" means. Apparently 30% premium is free 😉

 

[Keysplayr]

That is such a lame argument because nobody is getting G-sync for free or next to free either. The target market that cares about vsync + triple buffering input lag is miniscule and everybody else with <60 fps issues are much better off spending the same money on a better GPU.

Are you insane 😀 ? The target market is ALL gamers. Go ahead. Try and convince me that you do not want this. I'll believe you. Trust me. :sneaky:

 

[Keysplayr]

Still better than having TWO proprietary parts. No? Especially when the AMD one is already in place in the form of GCN, for free.

I've got news for you. Until AMD goes out of their way to make Mantle work on Nvidia or Intel hardware (via wrapper or however they need to do it) then it's proprietary. No two ways about this here my friend. I'm very sorry.

 

[Teizo]

I was showing fanboy definition of what "free" means. Apparently 30% premium is free 😉

On the contrary, I'm no fanboy. I was just illustrating how weak the argument against G-Sync by Mantle 'supporters' was.

Obviously buying a new AMD card that has CGN architecture for Mantle is not considered a premium for some.

$100 for monitor versus a new card that costs more than $100...Which really costs more...

Granted not everyone has a Kepler based GPU, so I'll give you that, but the principle behind proprietarism is the same no matter how you shake it.

 

[Creig]

On the contrary, I'm no fanboy. I was just illustrating how weak the argument against G-Sync by Mantle 'supporters' was.

Obviously buying a new AMD card that has CGN architecture for Mantle is not considered a premium for some.

$100 for monitor versus a new card that costs more than $100...Which really costs more...

Granted not everyone has a Kepler based GPU, so I'll give you that, but the principle behind proprietarism is the same no matter how you shake it.

$100 - Premium for new monitor with G-sync module vs exact same new monitor with no G-sync module
$0 - Premium for new video card with Mantle support vs exact same new video card no Mantle support

 

[Erenhardt]

On the contrary, I'm no fanboy. I was just illustrating how weak the argument against G-Sync by Mantle 'supporters' was.

Obviously buying a new AMD card that has CGN architecture for Mantle is not considered a premium for some.

$100 for monitor versus a new card that costs more than $100...Which really costs more...

Granted not everyone has a Kepler based GPU, so I'll give you that, but the principle behind proprietarism is the same no matter how you shake it.

Someone who has Kepler card that can work with G-sync needs to buy mod kit for $100+, or premium (+$100) monitor.
On the other hand someone who have gcn card need to pay internet provider to download ~300MB driver - which will cost you about $5 (?) when using mobile internet connection.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The 100$ is just now and premium. Its just a matter of time before it will be sub 1$ if it takes off.

And please keep Mantle out of it. Even tho its hard for the trolls to do so. Mantle is anything but free. Its just a matter of how you pay. Onetime up or pay with every game.

 

[Mark Rejhon]

$100 - Premium for new monitor with G-sync module vs exact same new monitor with no G-sync module
$0 - Premium for new video card with Mantle support vs exact same new video card no Mantle support

Depends on the variables. Are you already AMD? NVIDIA? Want 120Hz? Do your framerates vary a lot? Etc.
Going G-SYNC looks better than going SLI with a $400 extra card.
Fluctuating 50fps with G-SYNC looks a lot better than fluctuating 75fps without G-SYNC.

Remember, most of the time, adding SLI doesn't decrease GPU input lag much; the frame rendertimes are usually constant during alternate-frame-rendering in many games. It also introduces potential microstutter issues from GPU framepacing, though NVIDIA has done a great job of that. For many games G-SYNC would decrease input lag MORE than going SLI, too.

+$400 -- going SLI
+$150 -- going G-SYNC (if already NVIDIA)

Obviously it can depend on the game and variability of your framerates. In this case, since G-SYNC upgrade alone looks better than going SLI alone, the G-SYNC investment is better in this case. Sub-$400 graphics cards are DOA on a ROI basis, even $400 graphics cards wouldn't improve motion well enough in several video games to be better than G-SYNC. Assumes, of course, you already are NVIDIA and 120Hz and G-SYNC upgradeable, or was planning to get a 120Hz monitor either way. Or if you're building a cheap 120Hz rig on limited budget and can only afford G-SYNC -or- SLI.

 

[Keysplayr]

Yeah, if $100 is the initial cost of the add in board kit or a premium of the very first monitors available like the ASUS 144hz G-Sync monitor for 399.00, that is a great starting point. As with anything, the more that is made pretty much guarantees a lower BOM and bottom line for easier cost absorption.
And also, we do not yet know what else these G-Sync boards are capable of. You saw Tom Petersen absolutely NOT answer Scott Wasson's question regarding the 768MB of memory (at least that we can see on one side) is for? I wonder what else they have in store.

 

[Teizo]

Someone who has Kepler card that can work with G-sync needs to buy mod kit for $100+, or premium (+$100) monitor.
On the other hand someone who have gcn card need to pay internet provider to download ~300MB driver - which will cost you about $5 (?) when using mobile internet connection.

Ok, you win the internet argument. Feel better now?

Stil doesn't matter one bit. An extra $100 on a good monitor for as long as they last is a nominal expense.

Both are good technologies. Just Mantle will require more work from developers and be more dependent on what developers embrace and use it. Even if only a select few companies build G-Sync monitors, there are enough Kepler cards out there in the market that those manufacturers will make decent revenue off of them.

As usual, just pointless bickering over stupid crap because one is from AMD and the other Nvidia.

 

[railven]

I mean, I can't picture anyone in the world who games, to observe this technology and say, "I don't want that." It just isn't happening with any sort of believable argument. None that I can think of. The only unacceptable reason is a resistance to switch from AMD to Nvidia to have the tech. And that's not really an actual reason.

I can link you to I'd say 8 guys right now that are heavily invested (ie fanboys) in Nvidia and have absolutely zero interest in this technology as it is. Perhaps when it evolves to support Plasma HDTVs (since these guys are IQ junkies).

Not everyone fits into a mold, so stop acting like they do. If you can't think of people who don't want this, you aren't thinking very hard.

 

[Teizo]

I can link you to I'd say 8 guys right now that are heavily invested (ie fanboys) in Nvidia and have absolutely zero interest in this technology as it is. Perhaps when it evolves to support Plasma HDTVs (since these guys are IQ junkies).

Not everyone fits into a mold, so stop acting like they do. If you can't think of people who don't want this, you aren't thinking very hard.

I won't get it until IPS monitors are supported, personally.

But, being interested in the tech, which shows promise, and then have set parameters for making a purchase are two different things.

 

[railven]

I won't get it until IPS monitors are supported, personally.

But, being interested in the tech, which shows promise, and then have set parameters for making a purchase are two different things.

And what are the chances this tech will ever get implemented into a dying branch (eg plasma TVs?)

Keys went as far as to say he can't think of any gamer that wouldn't want this, I've already come across gamers (who spend stupid money in my opinion on their setups) who have zero interest.

How would this tech work if you introduce a AVR into the mix?

 

[Grooveriding]

I won't get it until IPS monitors are supported, personally.

But, being interested in the tech, which shows promise, and then have set parameters for making a purchase are two different things.

I was super interested in it and I think it's a big difference going on how many of the reviewers and press there said so. Not just the usual nvidia shill review sites, but all the review sites in attendance said so.

It may be a case that this is being rushed out and revealed sooner than intended to try and respond to AMD having their announcements with Mantle etc. So they haven't given vendors enough time to flesh out what they'll offer and to get more vendors on board. Right now their vendor selection is fail though, with none of them making decent monitors.

Giving up 1600p is a no go for me, giving up IPS is a no go as well. So there is more in favour of carrying on with my current monitor than switching to a low quality screen just to have gsync. Wake me up when I don't have to compromise and I'll bend over for one.

 

[Leadbox]

Hold on a second did everyone ignore the bit where I said the patent had nothing to do with gsync. There is no patent as far as I know. More to the point NVidia has said they want this to be used in response to John Carmack.

My concern is more how Tom responded to the question about other company usage but other questions fielded to Nvidia already suggest there is no reason why AMD/Whoever can not implement this. So far there is no credible information to tell us they can't. You have to have ignored the entire contents of the thread to come to a different conclusion at this point, there is a lot of evidence to tell us this is a free open to be implemented extension from the GPU side.

I just knew from when they claimed there was a hardware component in the gpu required for this to work, that they have zero intention of having anyone with anything but a supported nvidia gpu be able to use this

Yeah sure. While you and them stick to your "principles" the industry is held back yet again. Way to justify things.

Your cult could make more money from this in the long run simply by putting this forward as the industry standard and getting paid a royalty for every monitor sold.More money than they're going to make between now and the time an open alternative arises

 

[Teizo]

Giving up 1600p is a no go for me, giving up IPS is a no go as well. So there is more in favour of carrying on with my current monitor than switching to a low quality screen just to have gsync. Wake me up when I don't have to compromise and I'll bend over for one.

Same here. I have 1080p IPS right now. VSync is good on this monitor with SLI, though there is lag at times....so needing to stay in sync under 60fps for me is not as big of a deal.

However, as you say..once it hits 1600p and IPS, I will find a way to get one (granted I"m still using an Nvidia GPU).

 

[railven]

Your cult could make more money from this in the long run simply by putting this forward as the industry standard and getting paid a royalty for every monitor sold.More money than they're going to make between now and the time an open alternative arises

While I find your wording amusing, I agree with your statement. Using the other bastard child - PhysX.

Selling $100 companion cards would boost PhysX adoption like gangbangers. Intel/AMD fangirls would buy them. Shoot, I revert to installing my GTX 660 for PhysX worthy titles. And bullocks to the constant NV propaganda that it don't work. It works fine with hacked drivers some guy in his underwear living in his mother's basement most likely made. I'm sure Nvidia and their gaggle of engineers could come up with something legit.

 

[smithkt]

Giving up 1600p is a no go for me, giving up IPS is a no go as well. So there is more in favour of carrying on with my current monitor than switching to a low quality screen just to have gsync. Wake me up when I don't have to compromise and I'll bend over for one.

This is exactly my take on this as well. I have a 30", 1600p, IPS monitor. Very intriguing idea they have and when I am in the market to replace my monitor, I will see whether this has advanced far enough to consider it an option along with a new GPU to drive it.

Until then, it will not be a factor in deciding what GPU I buy next. Perhaps the one after that.

 

[Keysplayr]

I can link you to I'd say 8 guys right now that are heavily invested (ie fanboys) in Nvidia and have absolutely zero interest in this technology as it is. Perhaps when it evolves to support Plasma HDTVs (since these guys are IQ junkies).

Not everyone fits into a mold, so stop acting like they do. If you can't think of people who don't want this, you aren't thinking very hard.

They'd be lying. There isn't ANY reason NOT to like it. There isn't anything negative about it. It virtually eliminates stuttering, tearing, lag issues from using V-Sync. There isn't anything not to like other than not having an Nvidia capable card. At the moment. Them being IQ junkies is even more of a reason they would love this.