[pcper] frame metering review 690 vs. 7970 CF vs. Titan

[Fx1]

if that is what you think then you need to do some homework. I'll give you a hint... It's called AFR

There are 4 different methods of video rendering for multi GPU setups.

As i said im not sure which one is used today as in the past its been the 50/50 one.

 

[Fx1]

Who actually plays BF3 multiplayer with vsync on ? And for that matter - who plays it without using the built in framerate cap; gametime.maxvariablefps - set to a few frames above their monitor's refresh rate or whatever FPS level is their system's average threshold ?

I've tried playing BF3 without using the framerate cap and the experience is horrible as your framerate skyrockets and then can drop suddenly when an explosion goes off. Same goes for CS or CS:S, who does not use fpx_max via the console to steady their frame rate from big vacillations ? Some pseudo 'competitive gamer' logic being posted in this thread. The experience is probably hampered even moreso from having a framerate constantly leaping and falling compared to the lag from vsync. fps_max was a go-to feature for competitive CS gaming.

Any single player game vsync is always on because it makes the experience vastly better.

Your complaining about some input lag when your playing with 70-100ms Ping. Ever wonder why you always die even after your 5 feet around a corner?

Your talking about applying NASA Space Shuttle accuracy to a game of darts while drinking 10 pints of lager.

I think the problem is that when you die you think its input lag that caused you to lose. Its an internet myth propagated by superstitious gamers.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Your complaining about some input lag when your playing with 70-100ms Ping. Ever wonder why you always die even after your 5 feet around a corner?

Your talking about applying NASA Space Shuttle accuracy to a game of darts while drinking 10 pints of lager.

I think the problem is that when you die you think its input lag that caused you to lose. Its an internet myth propagated by superstitious gamers.

So your thought process is, 70-100ms is bad, so why care about an additional 60-90ms or add as much to SP?

That makes sense to you?

 

[Lonyo]

Your complaining about some input lag when your playing with 70-100ms Ping. Ever wonder why you always die even after your 5 feet around a corner?

Your talking about applying NASA Space Shuttle accuracy to a game of darts while drinking 10 pints of lager.

I think the problem is that when you die you think its input lag that caused you to lose. Its an internet myth propagated by superstitious gamers.

Just because you were round the corner on your computer doesn't mean you were on the other guy's computer.
BF3 uses client side hitboxes, which means input lag DOES matter. That network ping is irrelevant, because the hit calculation is done on your end, then sent to the server, then send to the other guy, who then dies after he's got round the corner.
So yes, that input lag DOES matter, because it's meaning that there is actually lag your end WHEN SHOOTING, where there wouldn't be before if you had no input lag.

The 70~100ms ping to server is irrelevant in BF3.

 

[Ben90]

Im sorry but competitive gamers who "THINK" they are super fast actually aren't. V Sync should be turned on at all times.

Reaction times arent important in BF3 since the kill box is so far off due to latency that your reaction speeds are mute. Game lag will kill your so called super human twitch response. Ping is normally 70ms+ so forget 16ms frame time latency.

Now if we get into a real competitive games such as Counter strike where players think they need superhuman twitch. They turn the resolution down to 800x600 to make the headshot kill box bigger. They also can get a 120hz monitor to run vsynced 24/7 even on max settings this is possible.

So please explain to me where V Sync needs to be turned off?

Mmm... The ignorance. I'm no superhuman, but it was hard to step down from to 130Hz from 180. Vysnc is just as annoying at 120Hz.

 

[Fx1]

So your thought process is, 70-100ms is bad, so why care about an additional 60-90ms or add as much to SP?

That makes sense to you?

Why is there another 60-90ms ? Balla you making up numbers here?

We are talking 16ms.

Also even though hit detection is client side this does not matter because if a player comes around a corner and sees you he has a 70ms Ping advantage and will most likely be shooting you before your screen even displays him. So no another 16ms input lag will not hurt at all. Lets not forget that his upstream ping could be closer to 200ms on a bad connection.

Then we have to take into account bullet spray and accuracy of the weapon which in BF3 terms is actually pretty poor.

Then we get to human accuracy and reaction times. My bet is that your BF3 stats arent that great. Are you a top 10% player in the world? probably not.

So if you are a top 1% player then you will have 2x 690 GTX running on a 120hz display? Because you would be sponsored and be able to justify the hardware.

So lets break this down.

V Sync on = Smooth frames and no stuttering and constant 60 FPS and consistant game play.

V Sync off = Microstutter, Screen Tearing, Runt frames, GPU running at 100% all the time.

The cost is 16ms of input lag.. i know what ill choose.

 

[Fx1]

Mmm... The ignorance. I'm no superhuman, but it was hard to step down from to 130Hz from 180. Vysnc is just as annoying at 120Hz.

Subjective much?

120hz the lag is as much as 8ms....

So can notice 8ms lag but you dont notice screen tearing and micro stutter?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Why is there another 60-90ms ? Balla you making up numbers here?

vsync can add as much as 60ms of input lag, triple buffering to stop it from flipping between 60 and 30 adds even more, which is where the numbers came from.

 

[Imouto]

Bashing an unreleased card, journalism at its finest.

This PCPer guy is a clown.

 

[Fx1]

vsync can add as much as 60ms of input lag, triple buffering to stop it from flipping between 60 and 30 adds even more, which is where the numbers came from.

Im sorry but i dont tripple buffer. My GPU can hit 60 FPS 100% of the time since i spec up my games so they play at 60 FPS consistently.

 

[Silverforce11]

Who actually plays BF3 multiplayer with vsync on ? And for that matter - who plays it without using the built in framerate cap; gametime.maxvariablefps - set to a few frames above their monitor's refresh rate or whatever FPS level is their system's average threshold ?

I've tried playing BF3 without using the framerate cap and the experience is horrible as your framerate skyrockets and then can drop suddenly when an explosion goes off. Same goes for CS or CS:S, who does not use fpx_max via the console to steady their frame rate from big vacillations ? Some pseudo 'competitive gamer' logic being posted in this thread. The experience is probably hampered even moreso from having a framerate constantly leaping and falling compared to the lag from vsync. fps_max was a go-to feature for competitive CS gaming.

Any single player game vsync is always on because it makes the experience vastly better.

heh someone recalls the CS days, all the manual configs to get a tiny edge..
I play all games with vsync on, and have nearly 3 kdr in bf2bc (on assault rifle, not sniper) and around 2 in bf3 til i got bored of it. screen tear and huge fps fluctuations over a few ms of input lag?

 

[Fx1]

heh someone recalls the CS days, all the manual configs to get a tiny edge..
I play all games with vsync on, and have nearly 3 kdr in bf2bc (on assault rifle, not sniper) and around 2 in bf3 til i got bored of it. screen tear and huge fps fluctuations over a few ms of input lag?

Lol yeh my point exactly.

I really would like to see these players use their super fast input skills when they quickly turn to shoot and their screen divides in to 3 images.

 

[Cloudfire777]

Bashing an unreleased card, journalism at its finest.

This PCPer guy is a clown.

It was more of a message to AMD and rightfully so
"We will continue to write about the stuttering and the latency problems CF configurations are having until it is fixed. Nobody deserves this. It needs to be fixed. Your move"

 

[3DVagabond]

How is this guy evaluating the unreleased 7990 using two 7970s and giving conclusions already ? We've already heard from GDC where they demoed Battlefield 4 with the 7990 that it is the new malta card, we don't even know if they are the same 7970 Tahiti cores... We also have no idea of drivers or what hardware is on board the 7990 PCB...

Haha, what a joke. Why didn't he confine his review conclusions to exactly what he was reviewing, instead of trying to hypothesize the results for unreleased hardware using completely different hardware ? He might as well have benchmarked a GTX 280 and used his results multiplied by 3.86 to give his Titan numbers.

I get PCPER has been pretty shady with releasing data before everyone else using nvidia's frame metering tools without transparency or disclosure that they were working with nvidia, but now this is just getting silly. Reviewing an unreleased card and unreleased drivers using different hardware and drivers... Maybe he is high and/or drunk.

+1 /thread

 

[Fx1]

It was more of a message to AMD and rightfully so
"We will continue to write about the stuttering and the latency problems CF configurations are having until it is fixed. Nobody deserves this. It needs to be fixed. Your move"

From what i can take from AMD's response is that they are configured to tear with only 1 tear per refresh where as nvidia have opted for even spaced tears with 2 on the screen at once.

Their response says they will give gamers a choice in how they want the frames to display.

I wouldnt say this is broken id say this is a preference AMD have made. Lets make something clear here. The AMD is rendering all the frames so its doing the work and its faster than Nvidia. Im sure AMD can even out the frames like Nvidia have and then no one will have anything to complain about.

 

[Imouto]

It was more of a message to AMD and rightfully so
"We will continue to write about the stuttering and the latency problems CF configurations are having until it is fixed. Nobody deserves this. It needs to be fixed. Your move"

Continuous bashing = No more free hardware to test.

That stance would be plain retarded. But who knows, it's proven that he's an idiot.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

The same idiot who pieced together the best look at frame times and output we've seen so far?

Twilight Zone Effect.

 

[3DVagabond]

Continuous bashing = No more free hardware to test.

That stance would be plain retarded. But who knows, it's proven that he's an idiot.

Actually AMD sends hardware to sites who continually show them in a negative light. That's not enough to get cut off. You need to make sh!t up, boldface lie, and threaten them, it seems, before they do that.

 

[Imouto]

The same idiot who pieced together the best look at frame times and output we've seen so far?

Twilight Zone Effect.

Best? Best as in "like everyone else"? Best as in "Nvidia distributed my job to everyone"?

This guy just pushed his luck by releasing info while everyone was under Nv's embargo. FCAT was developed and distributed by Nvidia but looks like he likes to pin himself some medals.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Best? Best as in "like everyone else"? Best as in "Nvidia distributed my job to everyone"?

This guy just pushed his luck by releasing info while everyone was under Nv's embargo. FCAT was developed and distributed by Nvidia but looks like he likes to pin himself some medals.

:whiste:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CsHuPxX8ZzQ#!

 

[Imouto]

:whiste:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CsHuPxX8ZzQ#!

Anything in plain old text is too vintage for you?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

I'm told some people learn better through visual aids rather than text alone.

 

[Imouto]

I'm told some people learn better through visual aids rather than text alone.

Text alone please.

If you don't get this I'll gladly make you a vid requesting it.

 

[Keysplayr]

:whiste:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CsHuPxX8ZzQ#!

Woof!!

 

[Keysplayr]

Text alone please.

If you don't get this I'll gladly make you a vid requesting it.

I don't understand your request. Are you against the video you were presented with? Or are you against videos as visual aids altogether?
Or other?

That video was a very good explanation of PCPer's methods. Very detailed. Now I better understand the term runt frame as should anybody that watches the vid.