PC video game where you are a mage

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: CottonRabbit
My warlock in NWN2 was pretty beastly. Chilling Tentacles was spammable and ridiculously effective against low level enemies.

Yea, I don't know where they came up with the idea of making a magic user with an at will ranged touch attack that can be, at will, converted to a variety of spells. Combined with wearing armor and higher HD than casters. Oh, and special abilities like damage reduction...

That being said, a warrior is still better than a warlock of the same level.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
Let's take something like stoneskin--it blocks X # of attacks. It does not differentiate between a high level monster or a million little ninjas. NWN2 is a low level marathon. The expansion, MOTB, is still a low level marathon, its just they send waves of generic low level monsters with 1,000HP instead of 20 with unrealistic saves. In other words, they simply CATERED to fighters which is highly unrealistic. This wasn't a mistake. The same guys who worked on NWN2 made marathon games like Icewind Dale and Icewind Dale 2. They simply had no idea how to balance the game. They tried to make a Diablo game with D20 rules, which is not designed for 300-style battle against waves of enemies.

Wrong.

Stoneskin:
This spell grants the target creature damage reduction 10/adamantine. The spell absorbs 10 points of melee damage per caster level, to a maximum of 100, before collapsing.

Greater Stoneskin:
You gain damage reduction 20/adamantine. The spell absorbs 10 points of damage per caster level, to a maximum of 150, before fading.

Premonition:
Premonition allows you to see a few moments into the future. This grants you damage reduction 30/adamantine; the spell absorbs 10 points of melee damage per caster level before collapsing.

(Premonition being an extremely powerful spell)

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: taltamir
any dnd game is the exact kind of thing I am referring to when I say that the mages suck. In the conversion to the PC all the special abilities that made mages powerful were removed, and to begin with in dnd they are meant as party support not as a solo class. And then to add a final nail in the coffin of playing a mage in those games, they went and decided to overpower fighters.

1. Max HP per level unbalanced towards fighters
2. In nwn magical items giving AC bonuses stack with physical armor (bracers of armor give enchantment to armor, instead of only the higher of them or your armor applying)
3. Flight is NEVER applied, dnd mages are supposed to fly above combat when they are not hittable
4. protection from arrows no applied / properly applied
5. bosses immune to save or die
6. crafting horribly broken, no incremental upgrades of items
7. teleportation gone
8. permance gone
9. Wish and its inherant bonuses to abilities gone
10. in nwn ability boosting items stack (gloves of str+6 and belt of str +6 = str +12)
11. you fight hordes of "weak" enemies in those games, which is terrible for a solo mage.
12. nwn1 haste giving items are always on.
13. extreme amount of loot means that you can buy potions / items that give non mages all the mage abilities via items.

And so on and so on.

You CAN play a caster, but why would you WANT to? they are just weak and pathetic. Not to mention that in DND the very notion of hit die means that fighters are god modding, for some reason they can take dozens of stab wounds and keep on fighting with no ill effects. Plus the venacian system of spellcasting is just lame.

Note that in all but one of the games I listed your mage is a civilization leader, he builds armies, researches powerful terrain altering spells, summons (permanently) great monsters like dragons and demons to fight on the battlefield, and so on.

I have done a lot of table-top D&D and played a multiude of D&D related games, and mages are not underpowered at all. Have you ever had your party rocked by a single mage? It happens all the time. Mages are very much "hiding behind others" until they reach the 8-10th level. Once they get to that point, they really start to pull away from the other classes. When you are talking about >lvl 20 characters, there is no comparison to a powerful mage. In Baldurs Gate 1&2, for example, you can multi-class a mage/thief and make an amazing powerful character. The protection spells, and huge arsenal of offensive weapons make them invaluable. The strategy is in what spells to choose, when to use them, and in what combination.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Last time I played WOW was more then a year ago. I hear there were major changes made.

I leveled to 60 that way in Vanilla WoW, to 70 in TBC, and to 80 in Wrath. Only real change is Blizzard can crit(and procs shatter ). My mage doesn't quest at all to level, never has. I do one thing different from the cookie cutter aoe farm build that has been used for years, I take frostbite, other then that it is the standard aoe farming routine mages have been using since vanilla WoW.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
I have done a lot of table-top D&D and played a multiude of D&D related games, and mages are not underpowered at all. Have you ever had your party rocked by a single mage? It happens all the time. Mages are very much "hiding behind others" until they reach the 8-10th level. Once they get to that point, they really start to pull away from the other classes. When you are talking about >lvl 20 characters, there is no comparison to a powerful mage. In Baldurs Gate 1&2, for example, you can multi-class a mage/thief and make an amazing powerful character. The protection spells, and huge arsenal of offensive weapons make them invaluable. The strategy is in what spells to choose, when to use them, and in what combination.

However, in case it wasn't clear, taltamir doesn't want strategy and a well earned, well balanced mage, he wants an overpowered "I win" button. It's like listening to a 12 year old's idea for a game.

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
I have done a lot of table-top D&D and played a multiude of D&D related games, and mages are not underpowered at all. Have you ever had your party rocked by a single mage? It happens all the time. Mages are very much "hiding behind others" until they reach the 8-10th level. Once they get to that point, they really start to pull away from the other classes. When you are talking about >lvl 20 characters, there is no comparison to a powerful mage. In Baldurs Gate 1&2, for example, you can multi-class a mage/thief and make an amazing powerful character. The protection spells, and huge arsenal of offensive weapons make them invaluable. The strategy is in what spells to choose, when to use them, and in what combination.

However, in case it wasn't clear, taltamir doesn't want strategy and a well earned, well balanced mage, he wants an overpowered "I win" button. It's like listening to a 12 year old's idea for a game.

Maybe someone is working on a game called "Mage: EPiC WIN". The game centers around a grossly overpowered mage killing uber-warriors in droves. LOL.

I always thought of mages as more of an "investment" class; you get out of them [in power] what you put into them [in effort]. Easy games=boring games.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
Maybe someone is working on a game called "Mage: EPiC WIN". The game centers around a grossly overpowered mage killing uber-warriors in droves. LOL.

I always thought of mages as more of an "investment" class; you get out of them [in power] what you put into them [in effort]. Easy games=boring games.

I really don't get it either. He wants a game where mages are superpowered, so we provide many examples, and he says, "No no! That's not good enough!"

:roll:

 

[Stoneburner]

Titan Quest! I made a casting character and i got a headband that makes spell times shorter. I was shooting ice around like a machine gun.

 

[taltamir]

&2

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: ExarKun333
I have done a lot of table-top D&D and played a multiude of D&D related games, and mages are not underpowered at all. Have you ever had your party rocked by a single mage? It happens all the time. Mages are very much "hiding behind others" until they reach the 8-10th level. Once they get to that point, they really start to pull away from the other classes. When you are talking about >lvl 20 characters, there is no comparison to a powerful mage. In Baldurs Gate 1, for example, you can multi-class a mage/thief and make an amazing powerful character. The protection spells, and huge arsenal of offensive weapons make them invaluable. The strategy is in what spells to choose, when to use them, and in what combination.

However, in case it wasn't clear, taltamir doesn't want strategy and a well earned, well balanced mage, he wants an overpowered "I win" button. It's like listening to a 12 year old's idea for a game.

Maybe someone is working on a game called "Mage: EPiC WIN". The game centers around a grossly overpowered mage killing uber-warriors in droves. LOL.

I always thought of mages as more of an "investment" class; you get out of them [in power] what you put into them [in effort]. Easy games=boring games.

example of what I want:
http://www.triumphstudios.com/shadowmagic/index.php

This type of petty insults is inappropriate and ironically immature as well. If you have nothing nice to say then keep your mouth shut.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: taltamir
any dnd game is the exact kind of thing I am referring to when I say that the mages suck. In the conversion to the PC all the special abilities that made mages powerful were removed, and to begin with in dnd they are meant as party support not as a solo class. And then to add a final nail in the coffin of playing a mage in those games, they went and decided to overpower fighters.

1. Max HP per level unbalanced towards fighters
2. In nwn magical items giving AC bonuses stack with physical armor (bracers of armor give enchantment to armor, instead of only the higher of them or your armor applying)
3. Flight is NEVER applied, dnd mages are supposed to fly above combat when they are not hittable
4. protection from arrows no applied / properly applied
5. bosses immune to save or die
6. crafting horribly broken, no incremental upgrades of items
7. teleportation gone
8. permance gone
9. Wish and its inherant bonuses to abilities gone
10. in nwn ability boosting items stack (gloves of str+6 and belt of str +6 = str +12)
11. you fight hordes of "weak" enemies in those games, which is terrible for a solo mage.
12. nwn1 haste giving items are always on.
13. extreme amount of loot means that you can buy potions / items that give non mages all the mage abilities via items.

And so on and so on.

You CAN play a caster, but why would you WANT to? they are just weak and pathetic. Not to mention that in DND the very notion of hit die means that fighters are god modding, for some reason they can take dozens of stab wounds and keep on fighting with no ill effects. Plus the venacian system of spellcasting is just lame.

Note that in all but one of the games I listed your mage is a civilization leader, he builds armies, researches powerful terrain altering spells, summons (permanently) great monsters like dragons and demons to fight on the battlefield, and so on.

I have done a lot of table-top D&D and played a multiude of D&D related games, and mages are not underpowered at all. Have you ever had your party rocked by a single mage? It happens all the time. Mages are very much "hiding behind others" until they reach the 8-10th level. Once they get to that point, they really start to pull away from the other classes. When you are talking about >lvl 20 characters, there is no comparison to a powerful mage. In Baldurs Gate 1&2, for example, you can multi-class a mage/thief and make an amazing powerful character. The protection spells, and huge arsenal of offensive weapons make them invaluable. The strategy is in what spells to choose, when to use them, and in what combination.

1. mage/theif is not a mage.
2. I said they were underpowered in PC games, not table top. Baldur gate did not felt at all limiting to you compared to the various powers of a table top dnd mage?

I made a 13 point list of power they lose / warriors gain in the conversion from tabletop to PC. Did you read that list?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/overlandFlight.htm

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: taltamir
any dnd game is the exact kind of thing I am referring to when I say that the mages suck. In the conversion to the PC all the special abilities that made mages powerful were removed, and to begin with in dnd they are meant as party support not as a solo class. And then to add a final nail in the coffin of playing a mage in those games, they went and decided to overpower fighters.

1. Max HP per level unbalanced towards fighters
2. In nwn magical items giving AC bonuses stack with physical armor (bracers of armor give enchantment to armor, instead of only the higher of them or your armor applying)
3. Flight is NEVER applied, dnd mages are supposed to fly above combat when they are not hittable
4. protection from arrows no applied / properly applied
5. bosses immune to save or die
6. crafting horribly broken, no incremental upgrades of items
7. teleportation gone
8. permance gone
9. Wish and its inherant bonuses to abilities gone
10. in nwn ability boosting items stack (gloves of str+6 and belt of str +6 = str +12)
11. you fight hordes of "weak" enemies in those games, which is terrible for a solo mage.
12. nwn1 haste giving items are always on.
13. extreme amount of loot means that you can buy potions / items that give non mages all the mage abilities via items.

And so on and so on.

You CAN play a caster, but why would you WANT to? they are just weak and pathetic. Not to mention that in DND the very notion of hit die means that fighters are god modding, for some reason they can take dozens of stab wounds and keep on fighting with no ill effects. Plus the venacian system of spellcasting is just lame.

Note that in all but one of the games I listed your mage is a civilization leader, he builds armies, researches powerful terrain altering spells, summons (permanently) great monsters like dragons and demons to fight on the battlefield, and so on.

I have done a lot of table-top D&D and played a multiude of D&D related games, and mages are not underpowered at all. Have you ever had your party rocked by a single mage? It happens all the time. Mages are very much "hiding behind others" until they reach the 8-10th level. Once they get to that point, they really start to pull away from the other classes. When you are talking about >lvl 20 characters, there is no comparison to a powerful mage. In Baldurs Gate 1&2, for example, you can multi-class a mage/thief and make an amazing powerful character. The protection spells, and huge arsenal of offensive weapons make them invaluable. The strategy is in what spells to choose, when to use them, and in what combination.

1. mage/theif is not a mage.
2. I said they were underpowered in PC games, not table top. Baldur gate did not felt at all limiting to you compared to the various powers of a table top dnd mage?

I made a 13 point list of power they lose / warriors gain in the conversion from tabletop to PC. Did you read that list?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fly.htm

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/overlandFlight.htm

Yes I did, and you are VERY VERY wrong to think these few changes really mean anything. There have been a lot of input in this thread regarding great examples of games where the mage is "top dog" but you ignore every one.

What exactly is the point of this thread? You ask for opinions but ignore everything anyone says...

/thread

 

[Martimus]

I like taking pure wizards in NWN and NWN2, especially with the overpowered spells after level 20. Being able to summon a Dragon to fight for you, or better yet turning into one was pretty awesome. I played both games through with a warrior first, then a pure wizzard second. I had more fun both times with the wizzard. It actually makes the game easier, because you can usually kill the opponents before they even get close enough to hit you.

What made wizzards even better in those games is that skill points are distributed based on Intellegence, and a properly build wizzard has very high intellegence. This meant that I could max out my skill points every level on the skills that were most important to me. Something I could definitely not do with the warrior class.

EDIT: Playing as a pure thief was probably the most fun though. Only because you have to sneak around and avoid most of the fights, because you would get your ass handed to you in most of them. Setting up traps down a hallway for the enemies you have to kill was a fun excersize too. You could only really play the modules that gave experience for completing missions though, because otherwise you rarely level up.

 

[WraithETC]

Gothic 3 :

I summon a Demon that can take on multiple enemies at a time while striking cities with meteors that insta kill multiple enemies while knocking others down. Other stuff too but I forgot.

Fable 1 (Fable 2 is similar but Magic is more like support for either primary warrior char or primary gun char):

Basically you can AOE the crap out of huge groups of enemies; stop time; magic yourself invunerable and turn stuff into chickens.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: WraithETC
Gothic 3 :

I summon a Demon that can take on multiple enemies at a time while striking cities with meteors that insta kill multiple enemies while knocking others down. Other stuff too but I forgot.

Fable 1 (Fable 2 is similar but Magic is more like support for either primary warrior char or primary gun char):

Basically you can AOE the crap out of huge groups of enemies; stop time; magic yourself invunerable and turn stuff into chickens.

yea, fable was nice. It had play value as both a mage and as a fighter.

I am getting gothic 3, thanks for the recommendation.

 

[taltamir]

oh i almost forgot one of my biggest complaint about mages... WRIST PAIN!
Warrior: click on enemy, watch as the warrior hits him again and again until one of you die, alternatively hold the mouse button down for the same effect... sometimes the warrior will automatically engage combat with anyone who attacks him
Wizard: Click to select spell (or press keyboard button), then click on enemy to cast, then click to select the same spell again, then click to cast again, repeat until your hand cramps or the enemy dies.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Mages are very powerful in Dungeon Siege 1/2 once you get some good spells. I always thought the Necromancer and Druid were pretty awesome in Diablo 2 also.

You could also play Morrowind/Oblivion and get a mod that lowers the mana cost of spells vs. power. There are a lot of mods for Oblivion (Mighty Magick, Supreme Magick) that make mages more worthwhile characters.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: Martimus
I like taking pure wizards in NWN and NWN2, especially with the overpowered spells after level 20. Being able to summon a Dragon to fight for you, or better yet turning into one was pretty awesome. I played both games through with a warrior first, then a pure wizzard second. I had more fun both times with the wizzard. It actually makes the game easier, because you can usually kill the opponents before they even get close enough to hit you.

What made wizzards even better in those games is that skill points are distributed based on Intellegence, and a properly build wizzard has very high intellegence. This meant that I could max out my skill points every level on the skills that were most important to me. Something I could definitely not do with the warrior class.

EDIT: Playing as a pure thief was probably the most fun though. Only because you have to sneak around and avoid most of the fights, because you would get your ass handed to you in most of them. Setting up traps down a hallway for the enemies you have to kill was a fun excersize too. You could only really play the modules that gave experience for completing missions though, because otherwise you rarely level up.

i like wizards for the ability to have a lot of different spells, but it seems like high level sorcs > high level wizards. but maybe i just never played the wiz right

 

[Xylitol]

wow

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: Martimus
I like taking pure wizards in NWN and NWN2, especially with the overpowered spells after level 20. Being able to summon a Dragon to fight for you, or better yet turning into one was pretty awesome. I played both games through with a warrior first, then a pure wizzard second. I had more fun both times with the wizzard. It actually makes the game easier, because you can usually kill the opponents before they even get close enough to hit you.

What made wizzards even better in those games is that skill points are distributed based on Intellegence, and a properly build wizzard has very high intellegence. This meant that I could max out my skill points every level on the skills that were most important to me. Something I could definitely not do with the warrior class.

EDIT: Playing as a pure thief was probably the most fun though. Only because you have to sneak around and avoid most of the fights, because you would get your ass handed to you in most of them. Setting up traps down a hallway for the enemies you have to kill was a fun excersize too. You could only really play the modules that gave experience for completing missions though, because otherwise you rarely level up.

i like wizards for the ability to have a lot of different spells, but it seems like high level sorcs > high level wizards. but maybe i just never played the wiz right

no, its true... sorcerers are wizards with twice as many spells per day AND can dynamically switch between their known spells, they are just limited in their known spells... this could be a big deal if you use dozens of sourcebooks for hundreds of spells... but when there are only a few GOOD spells to take every level and a bunch of junk, the sorcerer is much better.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: ConstipatedVigilante
Mages are very powerful in Dungeon Siege 1/2 once you get some good spells. I always thought the Necromancer and Druid were pretty awesome in Diablo 2 also.

You could also play Morrowind/Oblivion and get a mod that lowers the mana cost of spells vs. power. There are a lot of mods for Oblivion (Mighty Magick, Supreme Magick) that make mages more worthwhile characters.

That they are... the AI weakness allows a lot of exploitation and annihilation as a mage compared to a fighter (get in close and compare who has more HP, Armor, and DPS)

but this exmaple:

One of my biggest pet peves of mages is that they rely on other mages to do magic stuff for them... (Oh thank you generic nature mage for lifting that ward blocking the way... why dont you join my quest? WHAT? you are only a level 10 nature mage while I am level 20? why did I even need your help?)

Was from dungeon seige.

 

[Dumac]

I always though the sorceress in Diablo II was pretty badass.

In a lot of MMOs, mages are a versatile class which can easily solo.

However, no game has the general freedom of true DnD.

 

[Craig234]

They need to make a game that's the counterpart to "Thief" for Rogues, one tailored to mages.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Craig234
They need to make a game that's the counterpart to "Thief" for Rogues, one tailored to mages.

there are a few... but nothing as awesome as the theif series.

 

[Dumac]

Oh, Morrowind offers a lot of freedom as a mage.

You can make your own spells that utilize any of the many effects and types of effects that the game offers.

There are summoning spells (from creatures to armor and weapons), healing spells, destruction spells, stat buffinf spells, and other types of spells such as levitation (which lets you easily avoid all melee combat).

I created a spell that killed half the people in a major city with one go...

You can also enchant armor and weapons to do all these things for you with no cost to your own mana.

Mages easily do the most damage in Morrowind, and they are really flexible as well.

However, mages in Oblivion are much, much more limited and less awe inspiring.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: tasmanian
mage = glass cannon. Its just a fact.

someone has been playing WOW far too long.