PC Sales down 14% in first quarter YoY

[R0H1T]

That massive thing is the Sony Tap 20.

Make it half the size & it should sell like hotcakes ala Nexus 10 but anything with the name surface attached to it is sinking, quite the irony must say !

 

[lagokc]

It's all about the smartphone and no new good PC apps that demand crazy CPU power. The smartphone will replace most computing eventually. Intel is in trouble.

Intel don't have their head stuck in the sand, they know the direction things are going. It's no coincedence they've put so much effort into integrating more into the Haswell cores to reduce total system power while also putting a lot of effort into replacing the aging Atom design.

When the day finally comes when docking your phone into a keyboard and monitor is the normal thing to do for productivity and desktop gaming rather than something only eccentrics do, it shouldn't be surprising to see Intel chips in a lot of those phones.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Windows 8 is the single biggest display of corporate pomposity and contempt for customers since.. having a hard time even thinking of anything this incredibly obnoxious. Maybe when Intel tried to ram Rambus down our throats in the late 90s.

Bingo. The height of the stupidity was enforcing the Metro UI on Windows Server 2012.

 

[StrangerGuy]

Until someone offers something else that's good enough. The Cloud largely runs on Linux. Offer enough performance and RAS, and Intel will have issues. Not better. Not even as good. But, enough. FI, near-future 64-bit ARM CPUs might be good enough for some users. Intel runs such infrastructure now, because the closest competition is a joke, on performance grounds alone. But, ARM, FI, is advancing at a rate faster than Intel is. And, they don't need to reach Intel's level of performance.

They can be a few generations behind in that, but offer comparable power efficiency, and become a serious threat. That could especially be true if most of it stays relying on things like Memcache and distributed K/V DBs*. While you benefit from more good choices, Intel could be faced with the possibility of having to reduce margins to stay relevant. Long-term, there's no easy and obvious way out for anybody, Intel included.

* OT: Also, some practical research has been done on generically modeling consistency, so it could be quite possible to, in the coming years, build proper RDBMSes out of these eventual-consistency column/graph DBMSes.

"Good enough" must send shivers down Intel's spine. Android Web browsing on full Flash/desktop site with a quad A7 is already smooth as butter, let alone quad anything faster from ARM that is available now. On far the most bloated mobile OS no less.

 

[BuffaloChuck]

The people here who are downplaying the issues with the Windows 8 UI are probably used to dealing with hobbyists and other techies, and have not spent a lot of time working with "regular people" using PCs.

The user interface is a big deal.

Windows 8 is the single biggest display of corporate pomposity and contempt for customers since...maybe when Intel tried to ram Rambus down our throats in the late 90s.

YES. Of course, having Intel being duped into RAMBUS and having hundreds of millions sunk into new RAMBUS mfg plants that were based on a fatally-flawed design brought on the first Boom Dot Bust, too.

Microsoft's refusal to allow users to customize even their screen-elements into more easily viewed objects - according to their own individual eyes - is incredible. MS has allowed these screen-objects to be colorized according to each user since Win95-SE. Why? BECAUSE IT WORKED! Because it made each user as productive as they could be!

And even more pompous is to see the Start Menu folder-structure still existing - just not useable by the UI or users.

And so are all those registry entries for every screen-element - all 800 of 'em. But just not 'reachable' by the UI - by Ballmer's choice.

Well, we'll be seeing if the End Of The Desktop hits us in Win9. Win8.1 is supposedly going to 'fix' all the OS-coding errors to allow Apps Developers to sell more (which Ballmer gets a slice of). And if that works smoothly, then Win9 might start to dismember the Desktop AND non-WinStore programming - forcing all of our productivity to be bought and sold thru Microsoft Licensing.

Fun huh?

 

[BuffaloChuck]

Bingo. The height of the stupidity was enforcing the Metro UI on Windows Server 2012.

What?!! You mean - you can't envision rooms full of Network Admin's standing up, 24/7, touching screens and scrambling to use touch-screen keystroke combos?!! "Take yer shoes off - I use my toes on that screen for ALT functions, my elbows on the others, and I try to head-butt the right keys..."

I can only imagine how many new cuss-words Microsoft Corp Network Admins have been learning of late.

"Pass the sharp stick - we've got a few more eyes to poke out."

 

[Idontcare]

Bingo. The height of the stupidity was enforcing the Metro UI on Windows Server 2012.

I was unawares D:

The height of Microsoft's (Balmer's, really) hubris truly must know no bounds :|

 

[ShintaiDK]

I was unawares D:

The height of Microsoft's (Balmer's, really) hubris truly must know no bounds :|

You have no idea. Nothing better to add a 5$ application as a requirement to datacenter servers.
Exchange 2013 was rushed and badly broken too, just so the manager in charge could get his bonus.

 

[Idontcare]

You have no idea. Nothing better to add a 5$ application as a requirement to datacenter servers.
Exchange 2013 was rushed and badly broken too, just so the manager in charge could get his bonus.

I had no idea but I can believe it. This is the self-limiting end of all monopolies IMO, in the end they are their own undoing. IMO Microsoft is about 10yrs out from theirs.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I had no idea but I can believe it. This is the self-limiting end of all monopolies IMO, in the end they are their own undoing. IMO Microsoft is about 10yrs out from theirs.

I agree. Unless MS fires Ballmer, teh yesmen and the simple oppotunitist (money wise) managers. Then there is no future for MS.

 

[BrightCandle]

Windows server based on windows 8 is truly awful. The corner based slide in really doesn't work when on a remote connection using a window, nor does the slide your finger motion for closing the news GUI apps. As bad as windows 8 is as a desktop app its truly terrible when remote. I can't see how anyone at ms could have used it and agreed to ship that product.

Like most things in the computer industry in the end standards win out. All the propriety stuff eventually gets replaced with a nice standard and becomes part of the everyday. Microsoft has really kept that from happening for a very long time, its really very impressive. But ultimately standards prevail.

I still don't think windows did this, we are in a depression that is getting worse and worse and that is likely far more important than individual company actions, ultimately tablets and phones is where the excitement is. You also have games companies desperately falling over themselves to wreck PC games with ever worse DRM and buggy releases. Its a whole lot of things contributing to less sales, not least the lack of progress in hardware.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Bingo. The height of the stupidity was enforcing the Metro UI on Windows Server 2012.

What the hell?!

 

[podspi]

I really like Windows 8 and the 'Modern UI', more than iOS and Android. People don't like change, but I do not know one person who has actually given the new interface a chance and didn't like it (even on non-touch laptops).

I do agree that Microsoft should not have depreciated the desktop UI like they did, though. And it's wholly inappropriate in server.

I think this talk of Win8 and 'good enough' is imho missing the whole point of recent trends. PC sales are down because nobody (not nobody, but most people) wants a computer. They want devices which can do things that require computation (play games and music, check email and Facebook, etc). The difference is subtle but important.

 

[dma0991]

I really like Windows 8 and the 'Modern UI', more than iOS and Android. People don't like change, but I do not know one person who has actually given the new interface a chance and didn't like it (even on non-touch laptops).

Tried a display unit Windows RT tablet and it lags. The interface definitely works better with touch but it still takes more steps to achieve the same result. Not to mention that the OS is bloated. Surface RT, Surface Pro and W8 based tablets aren't priced competitively either.

The success of the Modern UI is only possible if sells very well as a tablet. As the Windows RT experience is unified with W8, it could spur a growth in desktop/laptop sales. However, the sales figures speak for themselves.

PC sales are down because nobody (not nobody, but most people) wants a computer. They want devices which can do things that require computation (play games and music, check email and Facebook, etc).

So most people these days prefer to use devices which is less productive than a desktop/laptop. That explains why we're getting less work done in the office. :hmm:

 

[frozentundra123456]

I really like Windows 8 and the 'Modern UI', more than iOS and Android. People don't like change, but I do not know one person who has actually given the new interface a chance and didn't like it (even on non-touch laptops).

I do agree that Microsoft should not have depreciated the desktop UI like they did, though. And it's wholly inappropriate in server.

I think this talk of Win8 and 'good enough' is imho missing the whole point of recent trends. PC sales are down because nobody (not nobody, but most people) wants a computer. They want devices which can do things that require computation (play games and music, check email and Facebook, etc). The difference is subtle but important.

IMO, saying you like something more than android is like saying its better than being boiled in oil.

In any case, the main problem is that win 8 is a step forward for mobile, but it was just arrogant (as others have said) of microsoft not to provide a better user experience for a non-touch interface and then allowing the user to pick which interface to default to. Ironically, perhaps by trying to copy phone and tablet interfaces, they may actually be driving people to them.

I would strongly disagree that most people dont want a computer though. The problem for the PC industry is that people dont want/need an NEW computer. The one they have is "good enough". Even if I didnt game, I could not conceive of doing online banking, bill paying, shopping, etc on a tablet. It is just too slow, has no security software, and the interface is too inconvenient. Not to mention the limited storage space and difficulty of moving files in an android tablet. However, I have to say I probably would not have upgraded my old Core 2 duo recently if I did not game.

Edit: In the above, I am talking about the individual personal user. For enterprise/education/research there is no question that tablets/smartphones are insufficient. For instance our small research lab has 3 desktops to run data bases, control analytical instrumentation, and tabulate and analyze data. We also have a couple of laptops for taking home/to meetings, etc. We have no tablets, and I see no way they could be at all useful. Again, the problem for the PC industry is that some of the computers are 3 or 4 years old or more and are adequate for the uses we have, although not as fast as the newer ones. Some of the instrumentation is even being controlled by 32 bit P4s running XP.

 

[rgallant]

-you have to wonder also if most work stations the avg. peep uses at work is much slower than their 1-2 year old smart phone [from what I've seen],so why upgrade their old pc at home when it could be faster than the one at work.
-they have never used a fast pc and lack of PC marketing does not help.

 

[podspi]

Tried a display unit Windows RT tablet and it lags. The interface definitely works better with touch but it still takes more steps to achieve the same result. Not to mention that the OS is bloated. Surface RT, Surface Pro and W8 based tablets aren't priced competitively either.

The success of the Modern UI is only possible if sells very well as a tablet. As the Windows RT experience is unified with W8, it could spur a growth in desktop/laptop sales. However, the sales figures speak for themselves.


So most people these days prefer to use devices which is less productive than a desktop/laptop. That explains why we're getting less work done in the office. :hmm:

Yea, I was just commenting on the interface, not necessarily (oddly enough) the products themselves. I would never buy a Tegra3-based WinRT device. My ATIV 500t is also a bit slow, but I really needed something with an active digitizer. On my desktop machine (and a much older Core 2 Duo TabletPC) Win8 flies and is much more enjoyable.

As for office use, I agree 100%. I was just commenting on what people are buying for home use. With only a few exceptions, tablets/smartphones are a step backwards for office use.

IMO, saying you like something more than android is like saying its better than being boiled in oil.

There there, I actually like Android quite a bit too :biggrin: Even iOS is serviceable.

I would strongly disagree that most people dont want a computer though. The problem for the PC industry is that people dont want/need an NEW computer. The one they have is "good enough". Even if I didnt game, I could not conceive of doing online banking, bill paying, shopping, etc on a tablet. It is just too slow, has no security software, and the interface is too inconvenient. Not to mention the limited storage space and difficulty of moving files in an android tablet. However, I have to say I probably would not have upgraded my old Core 2 duo recently if I did not game.

Edit: In the above, I am talking about the individual personal user. For enterprise/education/research there is no question that tablets/smartphones are insufficient. For instance our small research lab has 3 desktops to run data bases, control analytical instrumentation, and tabulate and analyze data. We also have a couple of laptops for taking home/to meetings, etc. We have no tablets, and I see no way they could be at all useful. Again, the problem for the PC industry is that some of the computers are 3 or 4 years old or more and are adequate for the uses we have, although not as fast as the newer ones. Some of the instrumentation is even being controlled by 32 bit P4s running XP.

Maybe it is just me, but there are a lot of non-technical people I know who don't seem to have any interest in owning a general purpose PC. I remember a roommate of mine bought the original iPhone, and he said (and yes I did roll my eyes afterwards) "What do I need a computer for anymore?"

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not arguing that computers aren't worthwhile, or that they SHOULD be replaced by these devices (although for personal use many non-technical people would seem to disagree) -- I am just saying that that appears to be the trend. For the people who still are using computers, most have relatively new but cheap models, because their older models either bit the dust via hardware failure or got too slow due to viruses/spyware/over enthusiastic security software.

 

[TidusZ]

I'm surprised people aren't spending $370 on processors with 4% more performance than last year's model. People used to buy a new pc every 2 years and get 100% performance increase so why wouldn't they do the same now for that sweet 10% boost over the same 4 cores. I'm surprised

 

[Idontcare]

I'm surprised people aren't spending $370 on processors with 4% more performance than last year's model. People used to buy a new pc every 2 years and get 100% performance increase so why wouldn't they do the same now for that sweet 10% boost over the same 4 cores. I'm surprised

But it'll save you $20 a year in lower power bills! Come on man, don't you love the earth, think of the children for once

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

But it'll save you $20 a year in lower power bills! Come on man, don't you love the earth, think of the children for once

I know this was said tongue in cheek, but I have to face up to the reality that a 3770K setup might make more sense once Haswell launches (and depresses prices).

 

[MrK6]

I know this was said tongue in cheek, but I have to face up to the reality that a 3770K setup might make more sense once Haswell launches (and depresses prices).

Maybe used. Traditionally there aren't many deals on old Intel CPU's save Black Friday and a few sales if you catch them. However maybe that's changed and I haven't noticed.

 

[frozentundra123456]

@ podspi

Did your roommate prepare papers for a class, did he make any kind of presentations, any kind of spreadsheet programs? Do he actually do any productivity work on his iphone? I dont mean to insult him, perhaps he really does not have any need of any kind of productivity uses. If so, fine. Perhaps a smartphone is adequate if all you want to do is social network and browse the web, although I still cant imagine how you would want to be permanently limited to the small screen and lack of true keyboard for input.

Otherwise, I dont see how a laptop at least wont be necessary at some point. I work at a large university, and nearly every student I see has a laptop, I have seen maybe one or two tablets in the 2 years I have been working there. Nearly everyone also has a smartphone, of course, but they must have concluded that is inadequate since nearly everyone has a laptop as well.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Maybe used. Traditionally there aren't many deals on old Intel CPU's save Black Friday and a few sales if you catch them. However maybe that's changed and I haven't noticed.

While it's true that prices on SB didn't change much once IVB launched, this time could be a little different as the mobos aren't compatible.

 

[Idontcare]

@ podspi

Did your roommate prepare papers for a class, did he make any kind of presentations, any kind of spreadsheet programs? Do he actually do any productivity work on his iphone? I dont mean to insult him, perhaps he really does not have any need of any kind of productivity uses. If so, fine. Perhaps a smartphone is adequate if all you want to do is social network and browse the web, although I still cant imagine how you would want to be permanently limited to the small screen and lack of true keyboard for input.

Otherwise, I dont see how a laptop at least wont be necessary at some point. I work at a large university, and nearly every student I see has a laptop, I have seen maybe one or two tablets in the 2 years I have been working there. Nearly everyone also has a smartphone, of course, but they must have concluded that is inadequate since nearly everyone has a laptop as well.

I can totally see that. Mobility is great but nothing beats a a decent sized keyboard and a mouse/trackpad of some kind.

 

[arsta]

At least where I live, most people just don't care about upgrading.

"Does it work?"
"Yes."
"Then why would you want to change it?"

In short, I know a few people with ~10 year old computers who refuse to upgrade them only because they are still working.