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PC keeps getting better: High School team's trip to tournament in Arizona canceled

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senseamp said:
Yes, it's controversial, and organizations will chose to avoid this controversy in the future by steering clear of AZ travel 🙂
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No if the people have any say. This isn't over yet. I suspect the parents and students are going to sue the balls off of them because any jury of non-sycophants are going to laugh their asses off.

😀
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
No if the people have any say. This isn't over yet. I suspect the parents and students are going to sue the balls off of them because any jury of non-sycophants are going to laugh their asses off.

😀
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Sure, all the more reasons for other organizations to avoid AZ travel plans entirely.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
You are more of an expert in the law than myself. My areas of expertise lie in other fields.

That said, I'm not sure how this is unconstitutional. I can see that if misapplied then there are grounds for charges of civil rights abuse.

Nevertheless for the moment let's assume that you are correct. How then can the citizenship of anyone be determined, or is the act of doing so inherently a violation of the Constitution?

If not, how would you craft legislation which protect the rights of citizens, yet allows the detection of those who are not?
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Whether or not it is Constitutional will undoubtedly be determined in court. The issue is whether the "reasonable suspicion" standard can be applied to this type of case as it is for Terry stops. Bear in mind that a reasonable suspicion means you can be detained for practically no reason, and we aren't talking here about a narrow situation like airplanes where travel is voluntary and public safety is an issue. We are talking about anywhere, any time, for very little reason. I don't personally like the precedent it sets. So far as detaining people and asking for papers - probable cause, the prevailing standard under the 4th amendment, works just fine.

But really, this has to do with how to orient our approach to the immigration problem. In my opinion, we have to close off the border, then decide how to handle the ones already here. We can provide amnesty, assuming the border is pretty tight, or we can try to remove them. If we are going to remove them, we can raid businesses who hire them, penalize them, shut them down. Or we can go on a witchhunt and have people informing on their neighbors for a bounty, start detaining random Mexicans on the streets, etc. ect. Maybe this is just personal preference, but I do not think this approach will be overly effective, and I just plain do not like it. Not in these United States.

Some other insidious aspects of this law. There is a penalty of up to 6 months in jail for being a legal resident alien but leaving your papers at home one day. This is a worse version of an already objectionable federal statute which provides a 30 day penalty. 6 months in jail for a crime that does not involve either moral turpitude or endangement of public safety? Really? If I go out driving and leave my license at home and get stopped, I get a fix it ticket and pay a $10 processing fee with proof of correction. Odd.

Another problem is that the statute provides Arizona citizens with unlimited rights to sue law enforcement agencies any time the citizen believes the agency is not enforcing this law zealously enough. You think in the State of Arizona there might just be more than a few extraordinarily zealous anti-immigrant types in every jurisdiction with the will to pursue such actions? This element truly reveals the mentality behind the law - all jurisdictions will ultimately have to adher to the standards of the most zealous citizens or risk costly and time consuming litigation to add to the extra workload already imposed by the statute. This does nothing but encourage police to act over-zealously in order to rack up their deportation statistics high enough to avoid legal penalty. And, of course, there is no penalty for the over-zealousness unless there is physical abuse. The fruit of the poisonous tree rule does not apply to immigration enforcement, so there is nothing to encourage honoring the 4th amendment even to the minimal standards set by the law.

- wolf
 
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manowar821 said:
I wouldn't feel safe sending my kids to a state run by mentally retarded apes, either.
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Yes, I can see how they might have problems respecting you after being exposed to mentally retarded apes. Perhaps if you closely observed mentally retarded apes and just did everything they do, you could fake it long enough to get them raised. Well, grown anyway.

For everyone proclaiming that Jo in Hayabusa Rider's thread was "obviously a fake", I present Manowar.
 
senseamp said:
You are advocating replacing illegal immigrant labor with high school kid labor, that is going to take a lot of man hours during school hours. These illegals are in the field all day.
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Lol at the idea of High School kids working their asses off in the fields like migrant workers do. Sure there are some who might but they are few and far between. That's hard tedious work and while I'm sure most kids would benefit from the experience todays generation of kids are far to entitled to be a good alternative.
 
dmcowen674 said:
5-14-2010

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...d-park-reaction-0514-20100514,0,3820200.story

"Since undocumented students may be participating on any of our extracurricular teams, we need to ensure that all of our students can travel safely, especially in the United States," Suzan Hebson, the assistant superintendent, said Thursdayin an e-mail to the Tribune.
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Kinda goes back to my post, you know the one about it bringing stupidity to a whole new level. Right??
 
Red Dawn said:
Lol at the idea of High School kids working their asses off in the fields like migrant workers do. Sure there are some who might but they are few and far between. That's hard tedious work and while I'm sure most kids would benefit from the experience todays generation of kids are far to entitled to be a good alternative.
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When I was a kid, lots of kids worked in hay fields. Why is it so different now?

You guys can't seriously be using that as an excuse -- that just because you may not find anyone to work the fields (or at least, find people to work as cheaply), it justifies allowing illegals stay in this country.
 
blanghorst said:
When I was a kid, lots of kids worked in hay fields. Why is it so different now?
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They are so much more materialistic and entitled than when I was a kid and if you are over 30 when you were a kid also.
You guys can't seriously be using that as an excuse -- that just because you may not find anyone to work the fields (or at least, find people to work as cheaply), it justifies allowing illegals stay in this country.
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No I just scoff at the idea that teenagers would replace migrant workers in the field.
 
blanghorst said:
When I was a kid, lots of kids worked in hay fields. Why is it so different now?

You guys can't seriously be using that as an excuse -- that just because you may not find anyone to work the fields (or at least, find people to work as cheaply), it justifies allowing illegals stay in this country.
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Amnesty or guest worker program would work, but in the meantime I sure wouldn't want my state law enforcement to go out of their way to find illegals when we need them to pick crops and keep state agriculture going.
 
senseamp said:
Amnesty or guest worker program would work, but in the meantime I sure wouldn't want my state law enforcement to go out of their way to find illegals when we need them to pick crops and keep state agriculture going.
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Arizona isnt going out of their way...
 
senseamp said:
Amnesty or guest worker program would work, but in the meantime I sure wouldn't want my state law enforcement to go out of their way to find illegals when we need them to pick crops and keep state agriculture going.
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Hasn't amnesty been tried before? Tell me, how did that work out in terms of stopping the rapid flow of illegals into this country?
 
blanghorst said:
Hasn't amnesty been tried before? Tell me, how did that work out in terms of stopping the rapid flow of illegals into this country?
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I don't care about how it worked out. I have no problem with people coming over as long as they work hard. If they commit crimes with actual victims, then deport them.
 
werepossum said:
Yes, I can see how they might have problems respecting you after being exposed to mentally retarded apes. Perhaps if you closely observed mentally retarded apes and just did everything they do, you could fake it long enough to get them raised. Well, grown anyway.

For everyone proclaiming that Jo in Hayabusa Rider's thread was "obviously a fake", I present Manowar.
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I think he's talking about Illinois.
 
senseamp said:
I don't care about how it worked out. I have no problem with people coming over as long as they work hard. If they commit crimes with actual victims, then deport them.
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Let's clarify:

A) You have no problem with people coming here and becoming citizens and working hard

or

B) You have no problem with people coming here and picking vegetables as semi-slave labor
 
senseamp said:
I don't care about how it worked out. I have no problem with people coming over as long as they work hard. If they commit crimes with actual victims, then deport them.
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They have already committed a crime by entering the country illegally, but you're content to use them as cheap labor so you don't have to pay as much for your food. Would you like them in chains next?
 
senseamp said:
I don't care about how it worked out. I have no problem with people coming over as long as they work hard. If they commit crimes with actual victims, then deport them.
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The point I was making is that Reagan granted amnesty (IIRC) and it did nothing to stop the flow of illegals into this country. Granting amnesty now will not stop the flow of illegals into this country unless we first do something about our porous borders.

And then we have people like you, who apparently don't give a damn about people coming here illegally as long as you can save a dime on a head of lettuce. The fact that these people are being exploited doesn't seem to be an issue with you, nor do the back-end costs of them coming here (health care, etc).
 
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