PC Gaming is stagnant...

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: MrChad

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: MrChad
Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If Microsoft started dictating how server browsers should look and how voice support should be done, basically creating a "Live" system for the PC, developers and gamers alike would bitch about how they're abusing their power.

There's nothing stopping developers from creating open standards outside of DirectX for these types of things. Why is it Microsoft's responsibility?

Because like it or not, games are for windows. Open standards are not going to come with windows. Can you name one open standard that is actually a successful standard? (as in almost ALL games use it?)

Do people complain that MS is abusing their power with Direct3d? Of course not. A community would be unnecessary, but appreciated if free. Either way, voice and video chat are technologies that were feasible years ago and no one is going to bother.

But when gfx sells games, and MS doesnt get a licensing fee from developers, why should they bother?

Gamespy has been offering a universal server browser for years.

And remember, the purpose of DirectX is to offer a common set of APIs for "direct" hardware access for game developers. Microsoft doesn't make graphics or sound engines (other than their own game development groups). What you're proposing and what Microsoft did with Xbox Live goes well beyond the scope of DirectX.

But gamespy is *outside* of the game, and is a bloated POS. I'm not talking about a software program, Im taking about an API, function library and service. Have you seen the server browser in BF2? It must have been written by a 2 year old its so terrible.

And I'm well aware of the purpose of DX. I'm not proposing they make the engines. The DX3D API is up to date. It gives developers the chance to write to a standard that takes advantage of the latest hardware.

DS3D doesnt even support reverb other than in the most basic sense. Theres no up to date gaming hardware other than the creative cards, and they own the standard, and Ill be damned if I'm going to buy another creative card, because they are singlehandedly holding back development. Direct-Input doesnt even try to support half the peripherals out there. Xbox had an independent two way voice channel for years. All we would need is a standard for USB headsets for the PC, and it would be there. But not gonna happen unless its in the OS.

 

[Dumac]

PC gaming isn't dying for me. I'm getting deeper and deeper into the hole that is the computer life as the days go by. I like console a lot less than PC's, and always have more fun on my computer than I do playing a console. Plus, im not gonna dish out 3k for a HDTV so i can sit on a couch to play my computer. If i really want comfort, i'll just put my monitor/keyboard/mouse on my bed.

I love PC games. The only games I prefer on console are most action/adventure games...

RTS, FPS, RPG, MMO - I prefer all these on my computer.

Recently I downloaded a SNES emulator and Chrono Trigger because I was too lazy to dig for my SNES and the game. Also, I found the experience more enjoyable than actually playing on my SNES.

However, I do agree with some points the OP is making. Consoles are getting more popular. PC gamers are seeming to get fewer as more lean towards consoles. But for me, a PC will most likely always be the way to go.

 

[NeoV]

my setup isn't typical I suppose

I'm using a round kitchen table for my cpu desk....and it's up against the wall...and the computer is behind my monitor, with the standard 2.1 setup on the table....my rear speakers are above me on the open celing basement joists, with the wires running above the joists as well..I'll take a pic later today

 

[Budarow]

To be quite frank...the PC game business is killing itself (and slowing down the PC hardware business at the same time) with greed and shortsightedness. PC game firms seem to be more interested in preventing "piracy" then making games fun for a diverse customer base (e.g., forcing consumers to have a separate set of discs/key number for each PC on a LAN).

I seem to be in a "category" of PC hobbiest largely ignored by the PC gaming industry.
I often have a bunch of the nephews over for LAN parties. I've got 3 fairly powerful PCs and I've got dozen of games to include a lot of newer titles. However, I'm not finding it necessary to buy any of the newer games since they don't seem to offer the options I'm looking for in a game.

Playing a multiplayer game co-op over my LAN is a lot of fun and BF1942 and BF Viet are 2 titles utilized in my home. I bought COD2 to play on my LAN, but this mode of play is apparently not an option. It also seems to be missing from Far Cry, HL2, Doom3, and BF2. Another apparently missing option is the ability to save/load a multiplayer game to resume at a later time/date.

I won't be buying any titles which do not have single player co-op over a LAN and/or the ability to save/load multiplayer game over a LAN.

Since I do have a fair amount of disposable income, I can afford a lot of games and relatively expensive PC hardware; however, if newer games don't provide game play modes to my liking, I'll continue to play older titles which DO NOT require any upgrades to any of my PCs. Thus, game companies are losing $$$ and bringing down PC hardware firms at the same time.

By the way...in the last ~2 years, I've spent ~$4000.00 to $5,000 on PC components and gaming software. If the newer titles don't start offering the options I like, the PC game and hardware firms can say "bye-bye" to this consumer. Try and get that amount of coin from a 15 year old console user (i.e., 1 XBox360 with a bunch of accessories AND ~85 titles at $50/ea.):disgust:

 

[PoisonCandyGram]

The only thing that I take issue with is your desire for an X-box live like service for the pc. Chances are, if someone did this, there would be a monthly fee for it. For most games, this shouldn't be necessary, because servers are not that expensive to run.

 

[Gamer X]

What about Open GL,why isn't Open GL games common ? I'm a n00b when it comes
to this issue,I don't know what are the advantages of Open GL but I know that
RTCW was an Open GL game and it had very attractive graphics and ran very
smoothly on my P3 550mhz rig with 128mb Ram and geforce 4 440mx contrary
to MOH which had crappy graphics and ran like a slide show on the same rig.

 

[thecrecarc]

computer gaming is not dying. there are like !000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 thread on this. search.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: thecrecarc
computer gaming is not dying. there are like !000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 thread on this. search.

If that is the case then please explain to me why I couldn't find a single game worth buying when I was bored out of my mind over the weekend. Seriously it was so lame I had to fire up MAME on my modded Xbox.

I remember long ago being able to walk into a store like EB and be in PC gaming mecca. Now I'm lucky to find 15-20 titles in some EBs.

*edit* I'm not anti-PC gaming or anything everyone. I've been doing this PC gaming stuff since I was a kid on my Commodore 64 so I've been here through the ups and downs before. This time is different because there are real competitive alternatives that don't cost an arm and a leg. The console software selection reminds me of what I used to see in the PC section 10-15 years ago. Sure there is plenty of crap in there, just like there was in the PC hayday, but that also opens up a lot more opportunity for titles that aren't crap to be produced.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: MrChad
Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If Microsoft started dictating how server browsers should look and how voice support should be done, basically creating a "Live" system for the PC, developers and gamers alike would bitch about how they're abusing their power.

There's nothing stopping developers from creating open standards outside of DirectX for these types of things. Why is it Microsoft's responsibility?

Because like it or not, games are for windows. Open standards are not going to come with windows. Can you name one open standard that is actually a successful standard? (as in almost ALL games use it?)

Do people complain that MS is abusing their power with Direct3d? Of course not. A community would be unnecessary, but appreciated if free. Either way, voice and video chat are technologies that were feasible years ago and no one is going to bother.

But when gfx sells games, and MS doesnt get a licensing fee from developers, why should they bother?

OpenGL

OpenGL

i think id uses it exclusively for all their games.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

You will die before pc gaming will die.

/end thread

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: Joemonkey
you have to admit, he makes some good points, without coming off as an asshat

Except he fails to recognize huge sellers the likes of HL2 and WoW. PC gaming will always be ahead of the game in online play and community.

HL2 would be a huge seller on any console as well.

And, I'm not for this or anything, there is some rumor floating around that WoW is going to be ported to the 360. I'll believe it when I see it but if they can figure out a control scheme I'm sure it's possible. WoW isn't exactly complex.

Games like HL/HL2 have gone to consoles yet they don't do nearly as well. Why? Online community. You can't exactly play all the wonderful mods on the console games that you can when you go the PC route.

When you get bored with a console game that is pretty much it, you're done with it and only a sequel and another $50 might get you more fun but mostly more of the same with a few twists. Mods on PC games can completely change the experience and make your investment last much longer.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Microsoft isn't killing gaming, it's three other companies. Blizzard, Bungie, and iD. Blizzard is still stuck in the mid-90's when it comes to AI and gameplay, and now they have to rely on a multitude of fanboys to doing nothing but levelling up their useless characters. Bungie used to be the greatest game company of all time, but they went backwards by a decade with Halo. Despite that, people continue to support them. iD couldn't make a fun game if their life depended on it, and thus they still focus on game engines that have pretty shadowing. We need more Ion Storms and Origin Systems.

 

[Frodolives]

If you want to make a list of "huge publishers who are evil" you left out a few. Vivendi comes to mind.

I don't really want to villify Microsoft too much here, because we're getting what we asked for, at least in the consumer sense, just like we do by going to Walmart instead of encouraging more diversity.

On one hand the OP makes some intelligent points, yet it's on the publishing side that I think we suffer the most. The current videogame marketplace favors the few mega publishers that are best able to afford development and huge releases, and even where we have creative and talented developers involved, the content most often becomes the property of these few, as well as choices of how and if support will be offered thereafter.

From an accountants point of view, console gaming is increasingly attractive to those publishers. Much lower risk of piracy, relative ease of development, and so on. I'm not saying game development shouldn't be profit driven, but I'm also hopeful to see that many small developers realize the need for new distribution models that benefit them as well as the end user. In the meantime, pc gaming is still a cash cow for publishers, but just giving less milk than she used to.

 

[Powermoloch]

PC gaming had improved my sex life


(kinda copied from joker ^_^)

Anyways...console and PC are intertwined I guess

 

[Brentx]

I can't stand not having a keyboard and mouse. Nothing can beat that combo.

I do have to agree with the whole EAX thing, Creative sucks for having that monopoly, but sooner or later another company will come along to challenge it. Give it another few years.

I don't exactley get what is wrong with the Directx system, like the OP has a problem with. Directx does it's job great. Obviously it's the best thing we have out there at the current time, unless you want to go to OpenGL, which is crappy compared the Directx.

I also think the price points are about the same between the console and PC too. A good gamin PC yo uwill upgrade about every 2-3 years on a 1500 budget. However to get the HD content on consoles you have to purchase an HDTV, which will run you about 3 grand for a nice one. Plus, console you have to worry about controllers, and now batteries, and of course, the loading times.

I know I will always stick to my PC for gaming, no matter what.
And if you haven't noticed, my opinion may be a bit biased towards PC's

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Brentx
I also think the price points are about the same between the console and PC too. A good gamin PC yo uwill upgrade about every 2-3 years on a 1500 budget. However to get the HD content on consoles you have to purchase an HDTV, which will run you about 3 grand for a nice one. Plus, console you have to worry about controllers, and now batteries, and of course, the loading times.

But everyone I know already has an HDTV. The cost of a TV can't really be factored in because the majority of families will purchase a TV before purchasing a PC. The TV is more of a sunk cost than anything else. The only price you can factor in is $X more spent in order to get Y tv because of a console.

Keep in mind that when someone drops 3Gs on a TV they're also going to have a $3000 TV to watch sports on.

 

[Eddieo]

PC Gaming Cons

Install, configure, update patches.

Console Cons
Graphics not as good, loading usually longer.

Did I miss any cons?

 

[Eddieo]

One more, I seem to crash more on PC games (not often) but still a con.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: Joemonkey
you have to admit, he makes some good points, without coming off as an asshat

Yes... a unified community would be good, gamespy is sort of like this but its not really unified as there are alternatives and i dont like it anyways.

Sorry to say, but i used to be a pretty regular gamer, now im not, games just arent as good as they used to be. FPS's need some innovations, RTS's needs some new ideas. Also, the one thing that can make or break a game, a friggin storyline, why am i playing this? who am i trying to save hear? whats the point? games need better storylines! Red alert 1/2 are great examples, FMV videos, real actors, decent enough storyline. Earth 2160 had an ok storyline too if anyones played that.

Maybe pc gaming isnt dying, but its changing and not neccisarily for the better.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
*edit* I'm not anti-PC gaming or anything everyone. I've been doing this PC gaming stuff since I was a kid on my Commodore 64 so I've been here through the ups and downs before. This time is different because there are real competitive alternatives that don't cost an arm and a leg. The console software selection reminds me of what I used to see in the PC section 10-15 years ago. Sure there is plenty of crap in there, just like there was in the PC hayday, but that also opens up a lot more opportunity for titles that aren't crap to be produced.

I've been playing games since I was a kid also. I guarentee that I play more games than you right now and I bought 5 games for PC this week.

 

[0roo0roo]

i miss aureal too i had the monster sound card, they pushed 3d sound ahead. now with them gone its stagnated and people just have lowered or no expectations for advances in sound. i won't buy a creative card under this anti innovation situation we have now. will just have to settle for direct 3d sound

and yea we should really have voice coms in games standard long ago. and 3d voice comms, so that its useful. so far i've only seen in it ut2k4.

Except he fails to recognize huge sellers the likes of HL2 and WoW. PC gaming will always be ahead of the game in online play and community.

well its just the sales figures.
Halo is the example that always gets mentioned because it's the one that stings the most. It's truly an superb game. To put things in perspective, Halo 2 completely outsold Half-Life 2. After two months of release, Half-Life 2 sold 1.7 million copies. Halo 2 sold 5 million copies in just 3 weeks ? and gamers actually had to pay to play onlinehttp://www.firingsquad.com/features/xbox_360_versus_pc_faceoff/page3.
sp


http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html
the steam hardware survey is always interesting. esp since it just automatically retrieves ur hardware stats, its like 2 clicks so its no trouble. gives an idea of real systems in use for gaming, not uber gaming systems used by a small niche of techies. if ur gonna argue about graphics or what not, it doesn' t matter how pretty a game can look if it doesn't look like that on your system. its not like ur gonna go back in a couple years after u get a faster system to replay it in all its glory. atleast i don't replay games sense of awe would be rather dulled by then anyways.

bigger worlds/more complex detailed graphics aren't helping game development budgets either. i've seen estimates that development costs for next gen consoles will double. but atleast they have a much larger market. pc's.. piracy and all not all that rosy. you gotta have an online component with keys or charge for online gaming like wow to really do well.

 

[skace]

The Steam Powered survey is just a small snapshot in time. This survey began on August 9th, 2005. This page last updated: 6:30pm PST (02:30 GMT), September 15 2005. It can't be used to show who is using what now. The most used cards back then were the 9800 and 9600, I think thats fine. A lot of those 9800 users have since moved on to 7800GTs (the most logical step). The 9800 was a really great card, I only got rid of mine after trying to play Bet on Soldier with it.

Also, you can compare Halo 2 and HL2 all day based on earnings, but I know which one I'd play given the choice between the 2... without a doubt.

 

[RobsTV]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

But everyone I know already has an HDTV. The cost of a TV can't really be factored in because the majority of families will purchase a TV before purchasing a PC. The TV is more of a sunk cost than anything else. The only price you can factor in is $X more spent in order to get Y tv because of a console.

Keep in mind that when someone drops 3Gs on a TV they're also going to have a $3000 TV to watch sports on.

Think more modern that that!
After getting a decent TV, the next step is to connect a PC to the HDTV.
Watch HD without a PC is like watching a B&W TV.
5.1 audio is also a must.
With a PC connected, you get all the best of everything on the new HDTV.
It changes the way you watch TV.
Pause and RW live HDTV programming for either OTA or Sat!
Unlimited storage options for HDTV content.
Heck, we have had sat HDTV with full PVR/DRV before it was offered by providers.

Gaming is a natural with a PC and modern TV
You already have the sound system, so just connect PC to it.
Modern TV's no longer rely on svideo or composite, and are treated like a huge lower res monitor.
My gaming rig of choice for the past 2 years has been 100" DLP, connected to HTPC.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
*edit* I'm not anti-PC gaming or anything everyone. I've been doing this PC gaming stuff since I was a kid on my Commodore 64 so I've been here through the ups and downs before. This time is different because there are real competitive alternatives that don't cost an arm and a leg. The console software selection reminds me of what I used to see in the PC section 10-15 years ago. Sure there is plenty of crap in there, just like there was in the PC hayday, but that also opens up a lot more opportunity for titles that aren't crap to be produced.

I've been playing games since I was a kid also. I guarentee that I play more games than you right now and I bought 5 games for PC this week.

What 5 games came out over the past week that are worth buying? I have seen nothing innovative or remotely interesting in the past couple of months.

 

[RobsTV]

List of some PC exclusive games for 2006:

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=24145969