pc games are changing?

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TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Originally posted by: smaky
Everyone has problems with pc. Its the nature of the beast. Between driver problems, windows problems (authentication stuffs too), steam, DRMs, internet connection and viruses ect.... there are tons of problems to be had with pcs.

DRM is just another one of many.

Its becoming unrealistic to expect non-enthusiast to bother with it all. Even if they go and buy a $5000 computer (like my brother did) its no picknick. He definately doesn't know much about computers. few months after me trying to help him out with all the problems he was having he stoped asking me for help and he gave up. Its sitting in his basement doing nothing.

He does have an xbox and playstion now to play games.
Your brother is a total retard.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
69,535
4,956
126
PC Gaming is doing fine. "Innovation" is not doing so well though, but not because of "Marketing", "Consumers" getting suckered, or anything else, but simply the result of Evolution of the Industry. IOW, the easy, the obvious, and the natural game innovations have been used up. It's not just on the PC though, the same issue exists regarding Consoles. This is why the Wii has been such a phenomenon IMO, it didn't have Innovative Games, but it did have Innovative Game Interaction.

So, if you must have "Revolutionary" or something completely different in order to enjoy a new game, you're SOL IMO. Those days are over and from here on out it'll be years between any such Innovation occurs, if it occurs.
 

indigo196

Member
Oct 14, 2007
47
0
0
I am not sure the cause...

It could be that I am older and games, in general, no longer appeal to me. I doubt that though as I still find playing older games fun when I can get past the 'stale' graphics.

It could be the 'focus' on making the game 'pretty' taking priority over making it 'fun' and 'deep'.

It could be the 'focus' on making money that they publisher 'force' on the developers.

It could be that 'consoles' are the 'focus' of the game publishers and developers thus making PC games the product of 'lesser' teams.

It could be a sum of all the three above.

I do know that I built a new 'gaming' rig this past spring and have not yet found a new game that was not bug ridden, dull and boring, or both to play since. Old classics that got updated like NWN2 were riddled with bad decisions in design.

For example:
In NWN if you were a rogue you could sneak by an 'encounter' because most encounters were triggered on 'detect' not on 'enter'; NWN2 made all of them on 'enter' which makes the rogue much less 'enjoyable'.

oh, well....

Perhaps the real answer is to save the $400+ we pay for good graphics cards and buy and a console and a few games... at the same time convert your PC to Linux and avoid paying Microsoft since you really don't need it if there are no decent games for Windows.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
what i don't understand

you guys cry and whine about lack of originality yet *none* of you support the indie games
:confused:

many great imaginative games still being produced ... but the graphics are still '99 :p
[for the most part]

Play *them* ... support the great indie [and often free] games and we will have a PC gaming renaissance
 

smaky

Member
Jan 1, 2005
119
0
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: smaky
Everyone has problems with pc. Its the nature of the beast. Between driver problems, windows problems (authentication stuffs too), steam, DRMs, internet connection and viruses ect.... there are tons of problems to be had with pcs.

DRM is just another one of many.

Its becoming unrealistic to expect non-enthusiast to bother with it all. Even if they go and buy a $5000 computer (like my brother did) its no picknick. He definately doesn't know much about computers. few months after me trying to help him out with all the problems he was having he stoped asking me for help and he gave up. Its sitting in his basement doing nothing.

He does have an xbox and playstion now to play games.
Your brother is a total retard.
Thanks for your insight!
 

skace

Lifer
Jan 23, 2001
14,488
7
81
Originally posted by: apoppin
what i don't understand

you guys cry and whine about lack of originality yet *none* of you support the indie games
:confused:
Hey, Hey. I talk about Dwarf Fortress, Mount and Blade, and all sorts of indie games that most here don't even want to touch. I have a character in the top 500 for nethack.

I bought Eschalon Book 1, Fate, Most of the Steam indie catalogue, a licensed copy of zMud, etc.

Originally posted by: smaky
Everyone has problems with pc. Its the nature of the beast. Between driver problems, windows problems (authentication stuffs too), steam, DRMs, internet connection and viruses ect.... there are tons of problems to be had with pcs.

DRM is just another one of many.
The difference between driver problems, windows problems, steam issues and DRM is that DRM is basically big business sanctioning malicious attacks on your PC meant to damage or cause hardware to function in a manner not intended. You haven't had problems, congrats, but really closing your eyes and pretending the issue does not exist is equally as bad. Unlike a driver issue, a DRM issue cannot be fixed unless you simply do not play the game or steal it. That is the 2 methods of resolution they have given us.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,540
16
0
Originally posted by: homercles337
Originally posted by: Oyeve
If PC games are dying ( IMO I dont think they are) its not due to piracy, drm or anything like that. Its because, IMO, consoles have gotten to a point where the graphics and horsepower are pretty damn good. I have been and will always be a PC gamer first and foremost, but I do own nextgen consoles also. Game developers will make console games first as that is where 85% of the $$$ is, then, if they choose to, make a port to the PC. Years ago PCs were king of the cpu/gpu and games hit the PC LONG before any console got it. Now its the other way around. PCs get (if we are lucky) the ports. I didnt mind ports when PS2 and Xbox were the latest and greatest consoles because ports to the PC looked and played much better. GTA:San Andreas, IMO, is a good example of a PC port that greatly benefitted on the PC. WS, higher res and all that jazz. But I bet we wont be seeing GTA4 anytime soon on the PC if at all. There are always the Indie companies that keep the PC king.
This is just wrong. Every platform is unique and there are 3 of them. Why does one compare all three to the PC? If you look at sales independent of this unfair grouping PC sales are better--across the board.

I disagree with the OP though, DRM is killing PC gaming. There isnt a single form of DRM that has not been cracked. However, there are many, many instances of DRM really messing with machines (mine recently died, starting with the optical drive that was running Witcher--*when* it would run). OP you think all these complaints are coming from a couple people? Honestly, if everyone that had a problem with some form of DRM refused to buy another game from the same publisher, those publishers would figure out how to fix this problem--quick.
There are 3 consoles, two handhelds, and PC gaming. So if divided up evenly any one platform would average 16.7%. So if PC game sales are at 15%, then that's great because the two biggest money makers in PC gaming are WoW and Steam and their numbers aren't even counted by NPD. Not to mention several other online sales companies who's revenue also isn't counted.

PC gaming is doing a lot better than the PS3. No PS3 game sold over a million copies this year. Burning Crusade has that beat easily.

Sony and Microsoft have lost billions this year. Console gaming can't be considered a success when two out of three of the console makes are losing money like crazy.

Microsoft has lost over 7 Billion dollars in the console market.

 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
I feel that MMO games are the backbone keeping PC gaming alive in the market right now. There is money to made through other games, but exclusive titles being released on PC only lately has been lesser than it used to be a few years ago. If MMO's go multi platform some day then that will mark the beginning of dark times for PC games. I have been wrong before and I could be dead wrong about this theory too, but I really haven't heard an argument yet which has turned my head the other direction.
 

ZzZGuy

Golden Member
Nov 15, 2006
1,855
0
0
I would actually be happy if consoles would become better then PC's. Just have a cheap and stable laptop for internet and 2/3 consoles (still cheaper then high end PC rigs).

But NOTHING what so ever that has ever come out on consoles can beat the potential of the PC. Sure there are plenty of crappy PC games and same can be said for consoles, it's the high end ones that matter. The trend in gaming today seems to no where near use the full potential of a good gaming rig (they have low settings for people with old rigs, and high settings for those with new rigs). Every game ever put on console could be played as good or better on the PC because of the various forums of input devices and performance power.

When you make a game for console then put it on PC, you're just cutting the legs out from under it. With the latest surge in console to pc ports, i have a xbox 360 to play the good console games and don't spend a cent on console ports to the PC. Thus i speak with my wallet, encouraging the improvement of both.


But it would be so nice to have the versatility, multiable input devices, number and variety of games and power of a PC, in the small case of a mostly hassle free software of a console. Only problem is i still do not believe that all the consoles combined put out as many good games as the PC does. Just because it's not your cup of tea doesn't mean it isn't awesome (eg- someone who can't stand RTS's, doesn't mean RTS's suck).
 

smaky

Member
Jan 1, 2005
119
0
0
Portal. I seen it mentioned a few times in this forum. Never seen an add. Might be worth checking out.

Thanks !

Edit: I didn't know it was in the orang box. I kind of dismissed the whole orange box thing as another Half Life22222333 and didn't pay any attention to it. Sounds interesting, will try it out.
 

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,112
318
126
Originally posted by: smaky
Now to the real reason pc games suck:
When Duke Nukem, Doom, Quake, Halflife, Operation Flashpoint and many other games first came out, they were revolutionary. New, ground breaking and exciting stuff!!!!!!!

Nowday all we get is OVERHYPED REDUX of old games. Those games I just mentioned I completely finished and played many times over. I have never finished Doom3, Halflife2 even tho they were great looking games with awsome controls. Did not finish or play more than 5 months of ArmA even tho I played operation flashpoint for 3 years.
The reasons you don't see 'innovations' like Doom or Quake anymore is because there simply isn't much to innovate in any more. It's not like suddenly some guy thought 'Holy crap! Why don't I make a game where you can use military strategy... in real time! It'll be called the real time strategy game!' The technology now exists for almost any non-graphical innovation to be created, and so they have been.

There are still plenty of games that manage to seem fresh though. There isn't another game out there with the gameplay and atmosphere of STALKER, and Crysis is pretty fun as well.
 

ChaoZ

Diamond Member
Apr 5, 2000
8,909
1
0
My gripe is that the market is over saturated with FPS games. I would like more Blizzard quality RTS games.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: skace
Originally posted by: apoppin
what i don't understand

you guys cry and whine about lack of originality yet *none* of you support the indie games
:confused:
Hey, Hey. I talk about Dwarf Fortress, Mount and Blade, and all sorts of indie games that most here don't even want to touch. I have a character in the top 500 for nethack.

I bought Eschalon Book 1, Fate, Most of the Steam indie catalogue, a licensed copy of zMud, etc.
i didn't mean - *you* ... i meant "you guys" - in general :p

 

ranmaniac

Golden Member
May 14, 2001
1,939
0
76
I kind of miss the classic gaming days of Sierra and LucasArts, and I hope to see a re-release of TIE Fighter with updated graphics, or a new Star Wars sim game.
 

indigo196

Member
Oct 14, 2007
47
0
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
what i don't understand

you guys cry and whine about lack of originality yet *none* of you support the indie games
:confused:

many great imaginative games still being produced ... but the graphics are still '99 :p
[for the most part]

Play *them* ... support the great indie [and often free] games and we will have a PC gaming renaissance
Umm... I plan on doing that by switching to Linux and supporting the free and pay games that support Linux.

What Indie games do you play?
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
I think if Age of Empires 4 came out with the Ancient World theme, and EA made a decent BFME3, and Empire Total War came out in a smashing way, and they made a real time total war, and battlefield 3 comes out, the PC gaming market will spank your ass good night.
 

CitizenSnips

Member
Dec 31, 2007
51
0
0
The problem is people expect every game that comes out to be "The best game ever" and break all kinds of new ground and be revolutionary and wondrously original, while having the most up to date and high res graphics, a great single player campaign, and well supported multiplayer. For under $50. Though you won't need to pay in actual money since that's some kind of fantastical land where I'm sure the currency is more akin to magic beans and the like.

They're games, they're entertainment, you get good, bad, and average, and that's how it's always been and how it'll always be. All I can say is I wish people would stop pirating games because that's part of why we don't get all the innovation and new ideas everyone clamors about because they can't pull in the kind of money they need to validate it. It especially pisses me off when pirates have the stones to complain about games.
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
0
0
It's all about multi-platform. PC gaming as we know it are shifting towards consoles. Xbox 360 is nothing more than PC gaming platform on a console with sports and arcade racers affordable and simplicity for the mass to enjoy.

PC gaming industry is slowly fading until we make it more unique.

 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
This whole talk of PC Games fading in and out is complete and utter bull shit. There will always be console-PC development, there will always be PC unique games, and until the console morphs itself into a PC like it's predicted to, there's no point in bitching and groaning and moaning. You play your games, support the PC because of its superior gameplay and graphics, and shove the stupid doom talk up your flaccid ass.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
And don't forget, we have something console games will never have until they morph into real PCs: Mods. Modifications are a crucial part of any community (although not enough RTS games, sadly) and really awesome mods have been developed and are continuing to develop, games from the Source Engine, games that are several years old, like BF2, etc.

 

HeXploiT

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2004
4,358
0
71
Originally posted by: smaky
I wanted to reply to the other thread but was afraid I would only get flamed.

Here is my take on it:
I have played games with all the different securities. Fade, Securom, Starforce.

None have given me any problems at all. 12/2006 I have even gone and ordered several copies of ArmA from the Czech republic, knowing it came with Starforce, just so I can have it 6 months sooner. I have also bought an Atari (english) release of ArmA. (yeah I am a Flashpoint fanboy)

When I buy a game I dont' look at what security features it has. Yeah at first I was on the boycot bandwagon, but lately I could care less as long as I can play.

Now to the real reason pc games suck:
When Duke Nukem, Doom, Quake, Halflife, Operation Flashpoint and many other games first came out, they were revolutionary. New, ground breaking and exciting stuff!!!!!!!

Nowday all we get is OVERHYPED REDUX of old games. Those games I just mentioned I completely finished and played many times over. I have never finished Doom3, Halflife2 even tho they were great looking games with awsome controls. Did not finish or play more than 5 months of ArmA even tho I played operation flashpoint for 3 years.

Because there was none of the " oh wow I can pick up a piece of pipe and smash ....." or after playing a multiplayer mission in Flashpoint for the 1000th time I finaly get the rpg to hit the dam chopper, which was coming at us, and blows up on top of us killing us all. We all were just laughing non-stop. To this day we talk about it. Those kind of OH SIT moments dont' happen any more.


Why has this happened? Consumer is to blame! We buy into the marketing schemes of these big companies. They stick with what works. We should be going out there and looking for games that look interesting, new and exciting. Ones that may not get the massive advertising dollars but are willing to take a chance on a new idea for a game.

Call of Duty4!?!!?! what the blank?!?!?!
Its the same game just updated graphics. Its overhyped on all the markets out there. Thats why we buy it. Don't get me wrong, I am looking forward to buying CoD4 for pc but I don't expect anything new at all.

Anyone remember the game Mafia? It didnt' get much press. Not as much as "Godfather" which because of marketing was a great success. I played both and they are pretty much the same game Mafia maybe a little better.

Than came WoW. I played for 2 and half years. It was new and exciting to me. My first MMO. Got bored and looked for another MMO, but they are all similar. No completely new stuff. (currently I am playing Tabula Rasa, MMO with FPS pretty fun).

Piracy: It has always been there, always will be on the pc platform. Companies that make great games will get their money.

To summarize my random bables:
The DRM issue is not. Gamers need to look beyond the huge ads. Developers need to invent new stuff for the game market. Piracy is a non issue.


Spore is something I will definately try. I may not like it but its new stuff. Developer is realy pushing the boundaries on this one. They are taking a risk and I will reward them by taking a risk and buying their game.

Darkfall is another one that is ambitious. Will definately try it.

Whats another $50 to try and find the excitement I use to have when playing a game.
You say that pc games suck but you fail to say compared to what. They may suck yet pc games are still superior to any console. The real meat of the matter is that you've become accustomed to videogames and you're not as easily pleased as you once were.
If you step outside your shell and try something knew every once in awhile aside from an rpg or a shooter(let's say total war or civilization) maybe you will find there are still some "fun" experiences. The fact is when you play 20 rpgs and 20 shooters a year they're going to get old rather fast.
 

Thor86

Diamond Member
May 3, 2001
7,883
4
81
And how is this any different from crappy console games that exist.

Everything is relative, but I am still favoring pc games for the following reasons:

1) higher res graphics including anti-aliasing.
2) better physics capability.
3) massive online multiplayer capability.


 

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