Paypal/shipping dispute [4th update]

[shabby]

Looks like i won, paypal doesn't seem to care how long it took to get there just as long as he got the goods. Its also funny how they too their sweet time with this dispute, i lost $10 during this time in currency exchange.

This guys morale will be shot, seeing that he works as some banking analyst. He assured he this will go his way, i guess common sense isnt a requirement for a banking job? Oh well im happy

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: shabby
I sold an item to a fellow down in the states, he paid me 3 weeks ago and i shipped it out immediately and provided him with the tracking number.
He contacts me a week later asking where was his item, i told him it might take a bit longer to get there since its an international economy shipment so wait another week.
A week passes by he says he already bought the same item locally and he demands a refund because the package i sent him hasn't arrived in a timely manner. I looked at the tracking of the package and sure enough it didn't get there. I called the post office the next day and they said they will do a full trace on the package and get back to me within 5 days.

The package arrived yesterday, whew, but he still demands a refund... wtf. He says because the package didn't arrive in a timely manner i broke some terms and conditions/contract of his. Either way i said no refund, you have your package end of story. He said he will do a charge back, i said go ahead.

What are the odds that he'll win this dispute?

Update: I won

Thank you for providing the requested information in a timely manner.

As stated in our User Agreement, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy only
applies to the shipment of goods, not to claims about the attributes or
quality of goods received. Therefore, this investigation has been closed
and no action has been taken. If the buyer returns the item, please provide
a refund consistent with your return policy.

Thank you again for your cooperation with our investigation.

Well, this is a complete reversal from their previous "The customer is always right" mentality.
That part about "consistant with your return policy" and "not claims about attributes or quality of goods received" just kills me. Those were EXACTLY my basis for denial and they reversed on me and deducted from my bank account, driving it into arrears. Fuckers.:|

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Well, this is a complete reversal from their previous "The customer is always right" mentality.
That part about "consistant with your return policy" and "not claims about attributes or quality of goods received" just kills me. Those were EXACTLY my basis for denial and they reversed on me and deducted from my bank account, driving it into arrears. Fuckers.:|

Well seriously you are both their customers.

Most of the paypal shit is bullshit. People did a bad deal and now want to claim it's paypal's, ebay's, etc fault.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
Well, this is a complete reversal from their previous "The customer is always right" mentality.
That part about "consistant with your return policy" and "not claims about attributes or quality of goods received" just kills me. Those were EXACTLY my basis for denial and they reversed on me and deducted from my bank account, driving it into arrears. Fuckers.:|

Well seriously you are both their customers.

Most of the paypal shit is bullshit. People did a bad deal and now want to claim it's paypal's, ebay's, etc fault.

Not anymore I'm not.
I just consider myself lucky the asshole who bitched actually sent the item back
and I did re-sell it, and I did that off their radar, so I guess it's all good. I still won't patronize it anymore and now that I've had some personal dealing with the organized element on there, there is no way I'm ever doing any business through that portal.

 

[alkemyst]

why on the resale did you have to do it off the radar, were you scamming someone the second time?

Many claim 'business' but most are just reselling junk here and there. I have hundreds of paypal transactions and only one I lost out on and it was due to the USPS not returning the proper info in time. Not my fault and not paypals fault....however it feel outside of their window so the seller screwed me when he sent me bad goods and then I returned them per the agreement.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
why on the resale did you have to do it off the radar, were you scamming someone the second time?

Many claim 'business' but most are just reselling junk here and there. I have hundreds of paypal transactions and only one I lost out on and it was due to the USPS not returning the proper info in time. Not my fault and not paypals fault....however it feel outside of their window so the seller screwed me when he sent me bad goods and then I returned them per the agreement.

:disgust: <avoiding the urge to retort to the personal dig>No, and I wasn't scamming the first time either. The buyer got buyers remorse for using "Buy it Now" and thus paying a premium price and further was upset that USPS wasn't inclined to work over a holiday, then went so far as to use a RADIO SHACK store manager as an "independant arbiter" over a professional recording microphone's condition and value.
Whatever...
It should be obvious that I wasn't inclined to further enrich a company that had stuck it's hand in my wallet in the manner they did. It soured what had until then been a pretty good social experience.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: shabby
I sold an item to a fellow down in the states, he paid me 3 weeks ago and i shipped it out immediately and provided him with the tracking number.
He contacts me a week later asking where was his item, i told him it might take a bit longer to get there since its an international economy shipment so wait another week.
A week passes by he says he already bought the same item locally and he demands a refund because the package i sent him hasn't arrived in a timely manner. I looked at the tracking of the package and sure enough it didn't get there. I called the post office the next day and they said they will do a full trace on the package and get back to me within 5 days.

The package arrived yesterday, whew, but he still demands a refund... wtf. He says because the package didn't arrive in a timely manner i broke some terms and conditions/contract of his. Either way i said no refund, you have your package end of story. He said he will do a charge back, i said go ahead.

What are the odds that he'll win this dispute?

Update: I won

Thank you for providing the requested information in a timely manner.

As stated in our User Agreement, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy only
applies to the shipment of goods, not to claims about the attributes or
quality of goods received. Therefore, this investigation has been closed
and no action has been taken. If the buyer returns the item, please provide
a refund consistent with your return policy.

Thank you again for your cooperation with our investigation.

Well, this is a complete reversal from their previous "The customer is always right" mentality.
That part about "consistant with your return policy" and "not claims about attributes or quality of goods received" just kills me. Those were EXACTLY my basis for denial and they reversed on me and deducted from my bank account, driving it into arrears. Fuckers.:|

that's probably because your buyer filed a Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) claim.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

that's probably because your buyer filed a Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) claim.

Which is hard when you're selling something clearly described as used and with visible marks shown in pics . There were multiple pictures and emails of me asking him if he had any questions before using buy it now, as was my custom.
He wanted it, paid for it I had to wait to get the funds to mail it, got it in to USPS the day before a major holiday (Labor day, I think) and it subsequently was delayed until the day after the auction closed and he was pissed he had used "Buy It Now". It was obvious in his emails and still ebay capitulated to his subsequent SNAD claim.
Whatever, the next buyer was more than happy, and the Russian Mob can have eBay for all I fucking care. And they do, believe me.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: alkemyst
why on the resale did you have to do it off the radar, were you scamming someone the second time?

Many claim 'business' but most are just reselling junk here and there. I have hundreds of paypal transactions and only one I lost out on and it was due to the USPS not returning the proper info in time. Not my fault and not paypals fault....however it feel outside of their window so the seller screwed me when he sent me bad goods and then I returned them per the agreement.

:disgust: <avoiding the urge to retort to the personal dig>No, and I wasn't scamming the first time either. The buyer got buyers remorse for using "Buy it Now" and thus paying a premium price and further was upset that USPS wasn't inclined to work over a holiday, then went so far as to use a RADIO SHACK store manager as an "independant arbiter" over a professional recording microphone's condition and value.
Whatever...
It should be obvious that I wasn't inclined to further enrich a company that had stuck it's hand in my wallet in the manner they did. It soured what had until then been a pretty good social experience.

you got it ALL figured out I guess. I don't think you are wrong often.

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft
... Those were EXACTLY my basis for denial and they reversed on me and deducted from my bank account, driving it into arrears. Fuckers.:|

PayPal took money out of your bank account?

 

[alkemyst]

*grabs* lawnchair...and tape recorder.

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

that's probably because your buyer filed a Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) claim.

The funny thing is my buyer filed a Non Receipt claim, yet he stated in his complaint that he received it. I would imagine that's about as far as the paypal rep read and sided on my side.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: MikeyIs4Dcats

that's probably because your buyer filed a Significantly Not As Described (SNAD) claim.

The funny thing is my buyer filed a Non Receipt claim, yet he stated in his complaint that he received it. I would imagine that's about as far as the paypal rep read and sided on my side.

LOL...yup, that's all they cared about if you file a Non-Delivery claim.

 

[shabby]

Uh oh...

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: shabby
Uh oh...

I don't think Paypal can take money from your bank account without your authorization. They can lock your account with them.

I had a similar situation happen to me through Amazon. I sold an SACD, and then like 7 months later I get a strange e-mail (that I honestly thought might be a phishing attempt) from Amazon about someone doing a claim. I'm like WTF, I haven't sold anything for several months now, so that can't be right. I look into it and yeah, this guy filed a claim against me. Having not been contacted by the guy, I check Amazon's Marketplace rules and it was past time that he could even make a claim against me. I replied to the e-mail saying I had not been contacted for any reason concerning this (and so I don't know if he didn't receive it or what his issue is), and so I can't even offer any recourse (and that he waited too long to do so anyways). They then tell me he was doing a chargeback through his credit card and that I had to provide proof of delivery. I actually never found out what happened, so I guess Amazon took care of it or his credit company declined it or something.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: shabby
I sold an item to a fellow down in the states, he paid me 3 weeks ago and i shipped it out immediately and provided him with the tracking number.
He contacts me a week later asking where was his item, i told him it might take a bit longer to get there since its an international economy shipment so wait another week.
A week passes by he says he already bought the same item locally and he demands a refund because the package i sent him hasn't arrived in a timely manner. I looked at the tracking of the package and sure enough it didn't get there. I called the post office the next day and they said they will do a full trace on the package and get back to me within 5 days.

The package arrived yesterday, whew, but he still demands a refund... wtf. He says because the package didn't arrive in a timely manner i broke some terms and conditions/contract of his. Either way i said no refund, you have your package end of story. He said he will do a charge back, i said go ahead.

What are the odds that he'll win this dispute?

Update: I won

Thank you for providing the requested information in a timely manner.

As stated in our User Agreement, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy only
applies to the shipment of goods, not to claims about the attributes or
quality of goods received. Therefore, this investigation has been closed
and no action has been taken. If the buyer returns the item, please provide
a refund consistent with your return policy.

Thank you again for your cooperation with our investigation.

Update 2 - Nov 11
Looks like this guy just wont give up, after his loss with paypal he's doing a charge back through his credit card company. Now paypal says they will block the funds in my account because the cc company reversed the charge, since i have no funds in my account i guess they'll pull the money from my bank.
Paypal says it'll take upto 75 days for the cc company to make a final decision on the dispute.
And what did he tell the credit card company? He never received the item... isnt this basically fraud since he already admitted that he did receive it in the paypal dispute?

Sorry friend, you are screwed.

I had this same exact thing happen...a chick lost a dispute with Paypal and then filed a chargeback with her CC. It cost me well over $350. I haven't thought of using Paypal since.

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: shabby
Uh oh...

I don't think Paypal can take money from your bank account without your authorization. They can lock your account with them.

Well they are pre-authorized to take money from my bank when i make a purchase, so whats stopping them on simply taking the money out again?

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: shabby
Uh oh...

I don't think Paypal can take money from your bank account without your authorization. They can lock your account with them.

Well they are pre-authorized to take money from my bank when i make a purchase, so whats stopping them on simply taking the money out again?

Delete your bank account info off your Paypal account STAT!

 

[darkswordsman17]

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: darkswordsman17

Originally posted by: shabby
Uh oh...

I don't think Paypal can take money from your bank account without your authorization. They can lock your account with them.

Well they are pre-authorized to take money from my bank when i make a purchase, so whats stopping them on simply taking the money out again?

Yes, but think about it, you're authorizing the purchase (the reason you have to be logged into Paypal and choose your payment method). You are not authorizing them here.

Just to be safe, call your bank and tell them not to allow anything with Paypal to go through.

 

[shabby]

That sounds good in theory, but who knows what paypal will do.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: rudeguy
I had this same exact thing happen...a chick lost a dispute with Paypal and then filed a chargeback with her CC. It cost me well over $350. I haven't thought of using Paypal since.

Has nothing to do with Paypal though at that point....it's the CC company.

You can call the CC company and report this as abuse. They will usually require the person to ship the item back...this is your best case scenario.

If you are going to ship internationally always use a trackable carrier or EMS/Global Priority/Express to get it there quickly.

 

[shabby]

I took my cc off the account and put a stop payment through my bank, fat chance he'll win but you never know.

 

[MikeyIs4Dcats]

you need to close the bank account you had linked, or at least empty the funds. PP will withdraw from the account after they get hit with the chargeback.

 

[shabby]

They dont have authorization anymore, they cant take out anything, thats what the stop payment is for. Besides i dont see this going the buyers way, the cc company cant be that stupid, paypal sure, but not visa.

 

[TankGuys]

Originally posted by: shabby
They dont have authorization anymore, they cant take out anything, thats what the stop payment is for. Besides i dont see this going the buyers way, the cc company cant be that stupid, paypal sure, but not visa.

You would be surprised, I'm afraid

I've been on the losing end of many shockingly bad decisions...