PayPal and selling and Heatware question

[Liver]

Gents,

My two assumptions for this reasoning is using credit card PayPal as payment, and buying in the United States.

Why does it matter who has how much Heatware? If I buy something online with my credit card and it is not as advertized, it counts as online fraud. Online fraud is covered 100% from my credit card (Platinum MBNA, Platinum equiv Optima AMEX).

Why do people still insist on having someone ship something first when they will pay with credit card PayPal? I can almost understand that it is more of a hassle (if the item is not as described, or never sent), but it is not that convincing of an argument.

I totally understand if it is ANY other type of payment.

It seems to me that the person taking the biggest risk is the person sending the item. The person paying via credit card PayPal is risking nothing, before OR after the sale.

Do people have such crappy credit cards? Is it a "my Heat is bigger than your Heat, now kneal to me" attitude?

Honestly, I don't understand.

What are your thoughts?

Liver

 

[Toastedlightly]

Originally posted by: Liver

 

[shilala]

How'd you get on here if you're on aol?

 

[RossMAN]

Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

 

[SaturnX]

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

QFT

 

[Liver]

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

SO it does fall into the "my heat is bigger than your heat" and nothing more than that.

Liver

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Liver

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

SO it does fall into the "my heat is bigger than your heat" and nothing more than that.

Liver

Yes, because I trust people who have traded with 100 different people and had nothing but positive experiences. I don't trust Liver, the new guy who has $1,000 worth of hardware for sale for $150

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: Liver

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

SO it does fall into the "my heat is bigger than your heat" and nothing more than that.

Liver

Well most of us will not accept CC Paypal because of the fees.

When you buy from an established trader yo0u can fell pretty confident that you will get what they say you are getting.

Most of us traders are honest and most people that get trolled get trtolled partially because they did not take due dilligence.

I am currently selling a laptop. I will not cross ship it to some one with <40 heat. It is not worth my time to risk gettimng trolled.

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: tm37

Originally posted by: Liver

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

SO it does fall into the "my heat is bigger than your heat" and nothing more than that.

Liver

Well most of us will not accept CC Paypal because of the fees.

When you buy from an established trader yo0u can fell pretty confident that you will get what they say you are getting.

Most of us traders are honest and most people that get trolled get trtolled partially because they did not take due dilligence.

I am currently selling a laptop. I will not cross ship it to some one with <40 heat. It is not worth my time to risk gettimng trolled.

The better heat somebody has, the more likely you are to have a smooth transaction. I personally won't risk my money on someone who doesn't. True, you could do a CC chargeback, but why go through all that if you don't have to? There will ALWAYS be other deals, and I'd rather wait and find one that has a better chance of success.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Liver

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

SO it does fall into the "my heat is bigger than your heat" and nothing more than that.

Liver

Do you not understand the concept of "reputation"?

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Liver

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

SO it does fall into the "my heat is bigger than your heat" and nothing more than that.

Liver

Do you not understand the concept of "reputation"?

I was about to say the exact same thing.

 

[jaybert]

Originally posted by: Liver
Gents,

My two assumptions for this reasoning is using credit card PayPal as payment, and buying in the United States.

Why does it matter who has how much Heatware? If I buy something online with my credit card and it is not as advertized, it counts as online fraud. Online fraud is covered 100% from my credit card (Platinum MBNA, Platinum equiv Optima AMEX).

Why do people still insist on having someone ship something first when they will pay with credit card PayPal? I can almost understand that it is more of a hassle (if the item is not as described, or never sent), but it is not that convincing of an argument.

I totally understand if it is ANY other type of payment.

It seems to me that the person taking the biggest risk is the person sending the item. The person paying via credit card PayPal is risking nothing, before OR after the sale.

Do people have such crappy credit cards? Is it a "my Heat is bigger than your Heat, now kneal to me" attitude?

Honestly, I don't understand.

What are your thoughts?

Liver

Your credit card will not always cover you since you are not directly paying the user, rather you are paying a 3rd party (paypal). They will just say that they completed their end of the transaction as described. Your credit card company may or may not refund your money as a courtesy, but they are absolutely under no obligation to do so. You would have to take it up with paypal who does not even handle claims if the item is not as described, only if you do not receive the item (know from experience).

 

[amdskip]

It's just what we do around here. Ship first or don't sell at all. It's the blunt truth. I had to work myself up to my heat level that I have now, wasn't just handed references.

 

[funboy6942]

It easy.
I have a ton of heat-you dont. We both want safe honest deal. You ship first because I have 100+ heat over 4 years showing I am less likely going to screw you then someone with none or less.

I feel good about the deal because you shipped first and I dont have to worry about CC charge back, wasting my time, and money I will never see again because you closed your bank account and used a stolen credit card causing PP to say I screwed.

This way you get your item asap rather then a month plus trying to get back your money. Also during this time using your way of dealing/thinking and doing it all over again with another person causing you not to get what you want at all again or taking a very long time till you get it.

 

[shekondar]

Originally posted by: Liver

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

SO it does fall into the "my heat is bigger than your heat" and nothing more than that.

Liver

Yup.

My problem with heatware is that there's no way to verify that a transaction actually took place. To me it seems like it would be too easy for a group of trolls to get together & give each other tons of positive feedback and an instant good reputation (or even for one person to create multiple accounts and give themself a good reputation). At least with ebay feedback, you can't enter a feedback until a transaction has actually taken place. And yet most people here (the same ones that constantly wave their big peni^H^H^H^H heatware around) seem to think that ebay feedback is worthless.

And to the people who say "if you don't like it, don't trade here", that is exactly why I don't trade here.

 

[Liver]

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Liver

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

SO it does fall into the "my heat is bigger than your heat" and nothing more than that.

Liver

Do you not understand the concept of "reputation"?

I was about to say the exact same thing.

Do you not understand the concept of liability, and loss?

That is the question I am asking, not reputation. Please re read my first post regarding money liability.

Liver

 

[Gibson486]

i don't even have heatware, so people don't buy from me. Oh Well, their loss. I just go on Craigslist and sell it for cash. Much better.

 

[FoBoT]

people use stolen CC # in conjuction with paypal all the time

 

[Liver]

Please read this entire post (or just the last quote).

Well most of us will not accept CC Paypal because of the fees.

I made an assumption in the first post regarding CC payment. What you said is true, but does not answer my question.

When you buy from an established trader yo0u can fell pretty confident that you will get what they say you are getting.

This is true, but so is saying most fire is hot.

Most of us traders are honest and most people that get trolled get trtolled partially because they did not take due dilligence.

True, but what is the loss? My credit card refunds everything. Does yours (really, just a question)?

I am currently selling a laptop. I will not cross ship it to some one with <40 heat. It is not worth my time to risk gettimng trolled.

That is your business practice. You make choices for yourself, nothing wrong with that, but does not answer my question.

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

That answers nothing.

Amdskip: It's just what we do around here. Ship first or don't sell at all. It's the blunt truth. I had to work myself up to my heat level that I have now, wasn't just handed references.

Truth is truth, I agree. I don't agree that it is "way it has always been done, so it has to be right."

Jaybert: Your credit card will not always cover you since you are not directly paying the user, rather you are paying a 3rd party (paypal). They will just say that they completed their end of the transaction as described. Your credit card company may or may not refund your money as a courtesy, but they are absolutely under no obligation to do so. You would have to take it up with paypal who does not even handle claims if the item is not as described, only if you do not receive the item (know from experience).

Do you have pre pay credit card?

RaiderJ said: The better heat somebody has, the more likely you are to have a smooth transaction. I personally won't risk my money on someone who doesn't. True, you could do a CC chargeback, but why go through all that if you don't have to? There will ALWAYS be other deals, and I'd rather wait and find one that has a better chance of success.

That makes the most sense, and I buy it.

Thanks

Liver

 

[Liver]

Originally posted by: shekondar

Originally posted by: Liver

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

SO it does fall into the "my heat is bigger than your heat" and nothing more than that.

Liver

Yup.

My problem with heatware is that there's no way to verify that a transaction actually took place. To me it seems like it would be too easy for a group of trolls to get together & give each other tons of positive feedback and an instant good reputation (or even for one person to create multiple accounts and give themself a good reputation). At least with ebay feedback, you can't enter a feedback until a transaction has actually taken place. And yet most people here (the same ones that constantly wave their big peni^H^H^H^H heatware around) seem to think that ebay feedback is worthless.

And to the people who say "if you don't like it, don't trade here", that is exactly why I don't trade here.

Never thought that heat could have been made up . . . I have heard that some people are linking to someone else's heat. If they are using that method I request a email from the account listed on heat. Only if I am shipping something first.

Liver

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: Gibson486
i don't even have heatware, so people don't buy from me. Oh Well, their loss. I just go on Craigslist and sell it for cash. Much better.

We are fine with that.

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: shekondar
...
And to the people who say "if you don't like it, don't trade here", that is exactly why I don't trade here.

We thank you for that

 

[nitsuj3580]

I say the seller has the right to conduct a transaction the way he sees fit. Heat feedback helps ease nerves a little bit but isn't 100% troll proof. If people don't want to deal with you then it's their lose.

I have only 9 heat and just sold a laptop. I had several PM's asking if I would ship first. I said "no". I even had one guy basically lecture me saying how heat works and he with the most heat dicates how the transaction is going to go down, etc etc.

IMHO I'm not just shipping an expensive laptop to someone without seeing money first. It's not worth it on the off chance someone decides to troll me. Even the guy with a 100 feedback could troll thinking 1 little negative will hardly effect his 100 positives if it means not having to fork over $$$ for an expensive item. Maybe that's being paranoid but hey, sh!t happens.

In the end, I finally found someone who would deal with me and they got a very nice laptop for a great price.

I know certain practices are common around here which is fine but if you believe something different, just stick to your guns until you find someone who wants to deal with you.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Liver

Originally posted by: aphex

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Liver

Originally posted by: RossMAN
Established AT forum members + more Heatware > you

Capice?

SO it does fall into the "my heat is bigger than your heat" and nothing more than that.

Liver

Do you not understand the concept of "reputation"?

I was about to say the exact same thing.

Do you not understand the concept of liability, and loss?

That is the question I am asking, not reputation. Please re read my first post regarding money liability.

Liver

So you'd walk into a bank and expect a loan only to reply with "What the fvck do you mean you want to check my credit? What the fvck is credit?"

:roll:

 

[Liver]

Whatever Nik.

Don't compare regulated banking practices with trading used stuff online from individuals with Heatware. That is just laughable.

Liver