Payment made to a non-profit, nothing received, they refuse to refund. **SOLVED**

[SpatiallyAware]

What did it cost them to change the ticket?

500-costs of change=refund.

This is simple.

$500 - <costs of change> - <costs of headache involved in change> = $0

 

[slugg]

They may not have purchased as a group if they did it themselves, who knows. Worst case they are clearly on the line for $350.

It's a group of 100 or so, so if they didn't get a group rate, it further confirms just how big of idiots they are.

$500 - <costs of change> - <costs of headache involved in change> = $0

Took me 5 minutes over the phone, and was free.


As much as I don't want to say this, I do believe they don't need to return a penny. It's just sad that they won't.

 

[videogames101]

This is how group travel works, I thought everyone knew this. You pay the deposit, and you lose it if you can't go.

 

[Theb]

This has nothing to do with a non profit verses a for profit organization!!

What it has to do with is most trips that are planned the first $500 or installment is usually non - refundable. It really doesn`t matter if you can go or not at a later date!!

This. You don't get your money back. Sometimes they'll let you transfer your spot to someone else, but if you pay and can't attend = thanks for the money sucka.

Noted. Thanks.

Question: you said usually non refundable. Under what circumstances would it be and not be refundable? And I agree, these things usually are like you said, and we'll probably never see that money, but I do want to challenge the word "usually."

There's more to the story than meets the eye. They really are kinda screwing her over. I just don't really feel like going into the details; the goal here is to see if there's any way at all we can get the money back.

So far, I hate to say it, but it seems like we won't. 🙁

It sounds like they're being assholes, but that doesn't change the fact that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

Your girlfriend now knows how deposits work. It's a shame that it was $500 for a trip and not $35 for a charity race, but this knowledge is still very good to have and will benefit her in the future.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

It's a group of 100 or so, so if they didn't get a group rate, it further confirms just how big of idiots they are.



Took me 5 minutes over the phone, and was free.


As much as I don't want to say this, I do believe they don't need to return a penny. It's just sad that they won't.

I have a sinking feeling that, whether intentional or not, it was something your wife did or said which caused them to be so confrontational. She's a volunteer there, I find it extremely odd that the director just flat out told her to get lost - in other words; it's not about the $500, it's about something else.

 

[Wreckem]

You won't because you shouldn't.

If you put a deposit on a car, and you opt out, do you get it back?

In most states yes.

In all states yes(IIRC), if there was no written contract.

 

[apac]

This is why you should always pay by credit card. Dispute and let the lawyers handle it.

 

[slugg]

I have a sinking feeling that, whether intentional or not, it was something your wife did or said which caused them to be so confrontational. She's a volunteer there, I find it extremely odd that the director just flat out told her to get lost - in other words; it's not about the $500, it's about something else.

It's my girlfriend... please don't tell my wife... :awe:

But seriously, I'm thinking the same thing. Oh well, life moves on.

I'm attending their meeting tonight to talk to the treasurer directly. At the very least, I want an explanation. If no refund will be made (likely), then I want a receipt for tax purposes. I think that's the best it's going to get.

 

[Wreckem]

This. You don't get your money back. Sometimes they'll let you transfer your spot to someone else, but if you pay and can't attend = thanks for the money sucka.




It sounds like they're being assholes, but that doesn't change the fact that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

Your girlfriend now knows how deposits work. It's a shame that it was $500 for a trip and not $35 for a charity race, but this knowledge is still very good to have and will benefit her in the future.

And usually there is a written contract stating this. Or at the very least a verbal agreement to such.

Most groups like this and other small non profits, as well as most individuals have no idea what the fuck they are doing when it comes to contracts.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Noted. Thanks.

Question: you said usually non refundable. Under what circumstances would it be and not be refundable? And I agree, these things usually are like you said, and we'll probably never see that money, but I do want to challenge the word "usually."

There's more to the story than meets the eye. They really are kinda screwing her over. I just don't really feel like going into the details; the goal here is to see if there's any way at all we can get the money back.

So far, I hate to say it, but it seems like we won't.

First of all I commend you for being pro-active and looking out for your girlfriend!

I have organized Choral trips to Europe to sing at the great cathedrals and the first payment or installment has always been non - refundable!

But with that said -- I have seen companies refund the first installment due to severe medical reasons such as emergency surgery...etc...
The reason being what company wants to appear to be heartless when it comes to an emergency surgery.

I think you should continue to inquire and if you have a friend who is a lawyer what you could do is get your friend to let you use his letter head and send them a letter. Sure it`s not a legal letter but at least they will take notice that perhaps you have started to escalate the issue...good luck!!

 

[dabuddha]

Where is there a contract stating it wasn't?

Isn't the default assumption that it wasn't in these cases rather than it was? Who knows, maybe she was told that the $500 was a deposit. Regardless, she should have gotten a receipt and also some paperwork stating what the money was for (refundable vs non refundable deposit, payment, etc).

Regardless, I'd tell your GF to stop volunteering for them and to find another group to work with.

 

[JEDIYoda]

n most states yes.

In all states yes, if there was no written contract.

Not the same at all......these companies usually are not very big and they have to be competitive and every dollar counts towards there profit margin.

They reason you get the deal that you get is due to an agreement that you will have a certain minimum number of participants.......this really is not the same as putting a deposit down on a car....

 

[SillyOReilly]

Not the same at all......these companies usually are not very big and they have to be competitive and every dollar counts towards there profit margin.

They reason you get the deal that you get is due to an agreement that you will have a certain minimum number of participants.......this really is not the same as putting a deposit down on a car....

It's irrational to compare this situation to a down payment on a car.

:hmm:

 

[Wreckem]

Not the same at all......these companies usually are not very big and they have to be competitive and every dollar counts towards there profit margin.

They reason you get the deal that you get is due to an agreement that you will have a certain minimum number of participants.......this really is not the same as putting a deposit down on a car....

There should always be a written agreement between the person going on the trip and the non profit group setting up/going on the trip.

There isn't even an enforceable contract here. Which is why its laughable they said they arent suing her out of the goodness of their heart.

As for the OP, its a waste of time and effort. He and his girlfriend should move on. And personally I would no longer associate myself with the group.

 

[waggy]

I have a sinking feeling that, whether intentional or not, it was something your wife did or said which caused them to be so confrontational. She's a volunteer there, I find it extremely odd that the director just flat out told her to get lost - in other words; it's not about the $500, it's about something else.

/this

seems odd they wouldn't work with her if she is a valued contributer.

 

[slugg]

You know, I've left out a couple details to try to keep it simple, but I think it's time to let it rip.

We haven't EVER actually spoken to the Band Boosters themselves. Most of this mess, regrettably, has been from my girlfriend speaking to the band director directly, but never once to the organization that funds the band and is putting together this trip. I've met the guy and he just rubbed me the wrong way.

Once I was told that they were going to sue her, but that the band director allegedly "convinced them not to," I immediately smelled some foul play. I asked to speak to the band booster president and/or the treasurer, but he refused to get me in contact with them. Combine that with the fact that I know we were lied to about the ticket transfer, now I'm ready to argue.

This is why I'm personally going to their meeting tonight. I wonder if the Band Boosters organization even know what's going on?

edit: Furthermore, my girlfriend's dad works for an airline and she could have flown for free, but the band director said it wouldn't be allowed. Why? That makes absolutely no sense. She would have paid for her own transportation to the hotel, and she's an adult instructor, not a student. What the hell is this guy hiding?

 

[Phoenix86]

You know, I've left out a couple details to try to keep it simple, but I think it's time to let it rip.

We haven't EVER actually spoken to the Band Boosters themselves. Most of this mess, regrettably, has been from my girlfriend speaking to the band director directly, but never once to the organization that funds the band and is putting together this trip. I've met the guy and he just rubbed me the wrong way.

Once I was told that they were going to sue her, but that the band director allegedly "convinced them not to," I immediately smelled some foul play. I asked to speak to the band booster president and/or the treasurer, but he refused to get me in contact with them. Combine that with the fact that I know we were lied to about the ticket transfer, now I'm ready to argue.

This is why I'm personally going to their meeting tonight. I wonder if the Band Boosters organization even know what's going on?

edit: Furthermore, my girlfriend's dad works for an airline and she could have flown for free, but the band director said it wouldn't be allowed. Why? That makes absolutely no sense. She would have paid for her own transportation to the hotel, and she's an adult instructor, not a student. What the hell is this guy hiding?

Now that I think about it, cut ties with this organization and find a better place to donate your time/energy. There's no benefit, just a fight.

The whole "we could have sued you but didn't" is really quite telling, add to it THIS HAS HAPPENED ON ANOTHER OCCASION. Wow.

See if you can get a receipt and gtfo.

 

[dabuddha]

You know, I've left out a couple details to try to keep it simple, but I think it's time to let it rip.

We haven't EVER actually spoken to the Band Boosters themselves. Most of this mess, regrettably, has been from my girlfriend speaking to the band director directly, but never once to the organization that funds the band and is putting together this trip. I've met the guy and he just rubbed me the wrong way.

Once I was told that they were going to sue her, but that the band director allegedly "convinced them not to," I immediately smelled some foul play. I asked to speak to the band booster president and/or the treasurer, but he refused to get me in contact with them. Combine that with the fact that I know we were lied to about the ticket transfer, now I'm ready to argue.

This is why I'm personally going to their meeting tonight. I wonder if the Band Boosters organization even know what's going on?

edit: Furthermore, my girlfriend's dad works for an airline and she could have flown for free, but the band director said it wouldn't be allowed. Why? That makes absolutely no sense. She would have paid for her own transportation to the hotel, and she's an adult instructor, not a student. What the hell is this guy hiding?

He probably used her $500 to fund his trip.

 

[GoPackGo]

Hey guys, a little update:

- The Band Boosters (name of the organization) didn't use a travel agency; they did it all themselves.
- The band director told my girlfriend it cost $150 to transfer the ticket.
- I called the airline (South West) and they confirmed that it is indeed FREE to transfer the an individual ticket if bought as a group.

Even if in normal circumstances the deposit would be non-refundable, why would they lie to her? And why would they threaten to sue her? Sorry, but refund aside, something doesn't add up.

If the price of the ticket was $500 or less she should either have been given a refund or the ticket to turn into a Southwest voucher.

 

[GoPackGo]

You know, I've left out a couple details to try to keep it simple, but I think it's time to let it rip.

We haven't EVER actually spoken to the Band Boosters themselves. Most of this mess, regrettably, has been from my girlfriend speaking to the band director directly, but never once to the organization that funds the band and is putting together this trip. I've met the guy and he just rubbed me the wrong way.

Once I was told that they were going to sue her, but that the band director allegedly "convinced them not to," I immediately smelled some foul play. I asked to speak to the band booster president and/or the treasurer, but he refused to get me in contact with them. Combine that with the fact that I know we were lied to about the ticket transfer, now I'm ready to argue.

This is why I'm personally going to their meeting tonight. I wonder if the Band Boosters organization even know what's going on?

edit: Furthermore, my girlfriend's dad works for an airline and she could have flown for free, but the band director said it wouldn't be allowed. Why? That makes absolutely no sense. She would have paid for her own transportation to the hotel, and she's an adult instructor, not a student. What the hell is this guy hiding?

Sounds like there are some serious shenanigans going on.

 

[slugg]

Sounds like there are some serious shenanigans going on.

Well it turns out that there are some very serious shenanigans going on. I caught the band director in so many lies and called his bluff that he had no choice other than comply. In fact, it turns out that I've uncovered quite a scandal.

He knew what was coming to him and got very defensive. He tried to BS his way out of it, but I had him by the balls and stood my ground. I really did try to make things easy from the beginning, but the minute he threatened to have me arrested, I went in guns blazing. This guy is a total jerk with an inferiority complex, but that served to my advantage because he had no idea what he was getting himself into with me.

Keep in mind that I was a percussion director in a competing program in the same county. I know exactly, with extreme detail, how a band program is supposed to handle money. Not only that, but I know practically every band director and lots of people with the school board. So after he threatened to have me arrested, I contacted some old friends.

He had to write my girlfriend a check for the refund in front of a bunch of parents. We even had him write a letter to explain what the check is about, signed by him, my girlfriend, and two other witnesses. Now people are asking questions and it's just a matter of time before the truth comes out. I'm saying nothing; I don't need to say anything.

He won't have a job after this school year is over in about 6 weeks.

...

As an aside, here's some perspective. The band program has about 100 students in it, so let's assume roughly 200 parents. Once they all find out what's going on, that's 200 people that instantly hate him and bad-mouth the guy. This is all because he's a liar and can't handle a situation like an adult. Sorry, but I don't feel bad for him. The level of his screwup is beyond words. It's wayyyyy beyond the petty refund. That's nothing compared to the grand scheme of things.

I do feel bad for the kids in his program. Ultimately, they're the ones who are about to get screwed over. Unless this band director pulls a miracle out of his ass, this band trip will be his demise. They leave on Thursday; I'll keep you guys posted.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Would love to know more details about the meeting. Good job!

 

[slugg]

Would love to know more details about the meeting. Good job!

Believe me, I want to completely reveal everything I know, but right now it's time to sit back and be patient. Some stuff is fact, some is still speculation. Still, it's enough. We'll have to wait and see!

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Well it turns out that there are some very serious shenanigans going on. I caught the band director in so many lies and called his bluff that he had no choice other than comply. In fact, it turns out that I've uncovered quite a scandal.

He knew what was coming to him and got very defensive. He tried to BS his way out of it, but I had him by the balls and stood my ground. I really did try to make things easy from the beginning, but the minute he threatened to have me arrested, I went in guns blazing. This guy is a total jerk with an inferiority complex, but that served to my advantage because he had no idea what he was getting himself into with me.

Keep in mind that I was a percussion director in a competing program in the same county. I know exactly, with extreme detail, how a band program is supposed to handle money. Not only that, but I know practically every band director and lots of people with the school board. So after he threatened to have me arrested, I contacted some old friends.

He had to write my girlfriend a check for the refund in front of a bunch of parents. We even had him write a letter to explain what the check is about, signed by him, my girlfriend, and two other witnesses. Now people are asking questions and it's just a matter of time before the truth comes out. I'm saying nothing; I don't need to say anything.

He won't have a job after this school year is over in about 6 weeks.

...

As an aside, here's some perspective. The band program has about 100 students in it, so let's assume roughly 200 parents. Once they all find out what's going on, that's 200 people that instantly hate him and bad-mouth the guy. This is all because he's a liar and can't handle a situation like an adult. Sorry, but I don't feel bad for him. The level of his screwup is beyond words. It's wayyyyy beyond the petty refund. That's nothing compared to the grand scheme of things.

I do feel bad for the kids in his program. Ultimately, they're the ones who are about to get screwed over. Unless this band director pulls a miracle out of his ass, this band trip will be his demise. They leave on Thursday; I'll keep you guys posted.

Wow, you got that all handled last night? Including having school board buddies involved? That's.... impressive yet surprising.



Scandal or not, refund or not, your wife is unreasonable to put a deposit down for $500 on a trip, decide she can't afford it after tickets are bought, and then renege on her agreement.

 

[slugg]

Wow, you got that all handled last night? Including having school board buddies involved? That's.... impressive yet surprising.



Scandal or not, refund or not, your wife is unreasonable to put a deposit down for $500 on a trip, decide she can't afford it after tickets are bought, and then renege on her agreement.

Yea, I'm surprised too. The thing is, though, is that they leave for the trip on Thursday and he's under extreme pressure. This has been a 3 month process, so it's not like it was all handled last night. Last night is just when, for lack of a better phrase, "shit got real." 😛

Oh and think what you want about my girlfriend wanting a refund, but keep in mind that you don't really know all the details. The director was in a position to easily refund her every penny without any penalty to the band whatsoever. He was just trying to take advantage of her and it's plainly obvious. He tried to justify it with make believe math and we called his bluff and caught his lies.

It's pretty funny that when we started asking around for the treasurer, not a single person even knew who he was! Oh and he seems to be the only person without contact information posted. How convenient! 😉