Payment made to a non-profit, nothing received, they refuse to refund. **SOLVED**

[slugg]

So here's the situation... My girlfriend volunteers as an instructor at a local high school's band program. The band planned a trip and invited her. The total fee for the trip per individual was $1500. She paid $500, then realized she would not be able to afford the trip, so she canceled her spot and asked for a refund. They refused.

Here's some information that I think is relevant. If you need more info, just ask:
- The band is funded by a non-profit organization. This is who the money was paid to.
- The excuse was that they already bought a plane ticket.
- Later, we found out the plane ticket was transferred to someone else that paid.
- The band director said that the non-profit organization wanted to sue my girlfriend for canceling, but that they changed their minds out of the goodness of their hearts.
- The organization is a 501(c)3 tax-exempt.
- Nobody said it was non-refundable.
- No contract was signed.
- No receipt/acknowledgement was given for the payment.

ATOT, what do you think?

---

UPDATE:

The band director dug himself into QUITE a hole. This is what happens when you have an inferiority complex, make enemies with everyone, and bury yourself in lies. We got the refund, and he got in trouble. Make sure to read my posts before replying

 

[Lithium381]

sue her for canceling? although they could claim she made a donation to the cause . . . .

 

[pcgeek11]

So here's the situation... My girlfriend volunteers as an instructor at a local high school's band program. The band planned a trip and invited her. The total fee for the trip per individual was $1500. She paid $500, then realized she would not be able to afford the trip, so she canceled her spot and asked for a refund. They refused.

Here's some information that I think is relevant. If you need more info, just ask:
- The band is funded by a non-profit organization. This is who the money was paid to.
- The excuse was that they already bought a plane ticket.
- Later, we found out the plane ticket was transferred to someone else that paid.
- The band director said that the non-profit organization wanted to sue my girlfriend for canceling, but that they changed their minds out of the goodness of their hearts.
- The organization is a 501(c)3 tax-exempt.
- Nobody said it was non-refundable.
- No contract was signed.
- No receipt/acknowledgement was given for the payment.

ATOT, what do you think?

How far in advance did she cancel?

She should have asked if it was refundable or not before she paid.

This could be a problem, with no receipt. She needs to retain all letters emails etc...

Small Claims Court.

 

[slugg]

sue her for canceling? although they could claim she made a donation to the cause . . . .

Yea, that's what I was afraid of. Can they actually hide under the cover of "well it was a donation?" I mean the money isn't even being used for what it was intended to be used for.

But this is what I don't understand... they never gave her a receipt or any kind of acknowledgement that they accepted the payment. Also, someone else who also paid was transferred the airplane ticket that was already paid for.

Something just seems fishy to me. Maybe there's nothing we can do, but I figured I'd post in here and brainstorm with people that are smarter than I am

 

[Ns1]

obvious answer is charge them $500 for the next lesson.

So here's the situation... My girlfriend volunteers as an instructor at a local high school's band program.

 

[slugg]

How far in advance did she cancel?

2, maybe 3 months in advance?

She should have asked if it was refundable or not before she paid.

So without asking, what's the "default," so to speak?

This could be a problem, with no receipt. She needs to retain all letters emails etc...

That'll be a problem. 99% of the communication was in person, on the phone, or text. I think there's been a total of like 1 or 2 emails. FML.

Small Claims Court.

Do we even have a case? And even then, what a huge pain in the butt. Any ideas on how to just scare them into doing the right thing?

 

[pcgeek11]

2, maybe 3 months in advance?


So without asking, what's the "default," so to speak?


That'll be a problem. 99% of the communication was in person, on the phone, or text. I think there's been a total of like 1 or 2 emails. FML.


Do we even have a case? And even then, what a huge pain in the butt. Any ideas on how to just scare them into doing the right thing?

Tell, them you are filing the claim with small claims court and you have copies of their emails etc that verify they took the money and refuse to refund it.

IMO 3 months is plenty of time to cancel due to whatever reason.

I would think the default would be refundable and the court would probably agree. Most places that do not refund use a contract that will state that the deposit is non-refundable and you would be required to sign it.

 

[Mike Gayner]

Have you every organised something like this? Do you have any idea how annoying it is when people confirm a booking, pay a deposit, then change their minds? That's exactly why deposits are paid - for idiotic vacillating annoyances like your girlfriend.

 

[Mike Gayner]

But this is what I don't understand... they never gave her a receipt or any kind of acknowledgement that they accepted the payment. Also, someone else who also paid was transferred the airplane ticket that was already paid for.

LOL your girlfriend handed someone $500 and didn't even ask for a receipt? Wow, she's not the brightest, huh?

 

[mikeymikec]

@ Mike Gayner

Wow, if everyone was as thoughtful about others' feelings and tactful as you, the world would be a much nicer place to live in.

 

[slugg]

Have you every organised something like this? Do you have any idea how annoying it is when people confirm a booking, pay a deposit, then change their minds? That's exactly why deposits are paid - for idiotic vacillating annoyances like your girlfriend.

As a matter of fact, I was a percussion director at a high school for 4 years. Yes, I've organized many things like this, and when these kinds of incidents happened, we took care of it in a much better way.

LOL your girlfriend handed someone $500 and didn't even ask for a receipt? Wow, she's not the brightest, huh?

Brighter than you, actually. She knows how to read. Tell me - when did I say that she didn't ask for a receipt?

But hey, I appreciate the feedback!

 

[JEDIYoda]

So here's the situation... My girlfriend volunteers as an instructor at a local high school's band program. The band planned a trip and invited her. The total fee for the trip per individual was $1500. She paid $500, then realized she would not be able to afford the trip, so she canceled her spot and asked for a refund. They refused.

Here's some information that I think is relevant. If you need more info, just ask:
- The band is funded by a non-profit organization. This is who the money was paid to.
- The excuse was that they already bought a plane ticket.
- Later, we found out the plane ticket was transferred to someone else that paid.
- The band director said that the non-profit organization wanted to sue my girlfriend for canceling, but that they changed their minds out of the goodness of their hearts.
- The organization is a 501(c)3 tax-exempt.
- Nobody said it was non-refundable.
- No contract was signed.
- No receipt/acknowledgement was given for the payment.

ATOT, what do you think?

This has nothing to do with a non profit verses a for profit organization!!

What it has to do with is most trips that are planned the first $500 or installment is usually non - refundable. It really doesn`t matter if you can go or not at a later date!!

 

[slugg]

This has nothing to do with a non profit verses a for profit organization!!

What it has to do with is most trips that are planned the first $500 or installment is usually non - refundable. It really doesn`t matter if you can go or not at a later date!!

Noted. Thanks.

Question: you said usually non refundable. Under what circumstances would it be and not be refundable? And I agree, these things usually are like you said, and we'll probably never see that money, but I do want to challenge the word "usually."

There's more to the story than meets the eye. They really are kinda screwing her over. I just don't really feel like going into the details; the goal here is to see if there's any way at all we can get the money back.

So far, I hate to say it, but it seems like we won't.

 

[Soundmanred]

Noted. Thanks.

Question: you said usually non refundable. Under what circumstances would it be and not be refundable? And I agree, these things usually are like you said, and we'll probably never see that money, but I do want to challenge the word "usually."

You know he just talks out of his ass right?
I wouldn't listen to a word he says.

 

[RbSX]

Dude, your girlfriend paid the deposit, which is a sign of commitment which is non refundable. These funds usually go to cover the costs already incurred and can't be changed when your girlfriend opted out.

I imagine that based upon your girlfriends tentative commitment they booked a flight, potentially hotels, based upon her word.. and you want that money back? Are you kidding me?

 

[RbSX]

Noted. Thanks.

Question: you said usually non refundable. Under what circumstances would it be and not be refundable? And I agree, these things usually are like you said, and we'll probably never see that money, but I do want to challenge the word "usually."

There's more to the story than meets the eye. They really are kinda screwing her over. I just don't really feel like going into the details; the goal here is to see if there's any way at all we can get the money back.

So far, I hate to say it, but it seems like we won't.

You won't because you shouldn't.

If you put a deposit on a car, and you opt out, do you get it back?

 

[kranky]

I would talk to the trip organizer and say that since her plane ticket is now being used by someone else and the band isn't stuck for anything, there is no reason to not refund her money.

That would be the focus of my argument since that's how they justified not giving the refund in the first place. If they refuse, say you feel you have to pursue it in small claims court because their position is arbitrary and unjustified. Push to get them to explain why they aren't giving it back.

However, I don't think you'll win because it's pretty standard for deposits to be non-refundable unless the deposit holder feels like returning it. If their position is that deposits are non-refundable, that's going to make it tough. That's the nature of deposits - it indicates a commitment so the event planning can move forward. Otherwise events like this could never be organized effectively.

 

[Soundmanred]

Dude, your girlfriend paid the deposit, which is a sign of commitment which is non refundable. These funds usually go to cover the costs already incurred and can't be changed when your girlfriend opted out.

I imagine that based upon your girlfriends tentative commitment they booked a flight, potentially hotels, based upon her word.. and you want that money back? Are you kidding me?

Not if they used the money to pay for another persons flight, it's not as if they lost the money, or it was wasted on an unused ticket.

 

[DrPizza]

$1500? Sounds like a heck of a nice trip. Else, they're getting ripped off by some tour company. As far as the majority of tour companies, they need a non-refundable deposit up front.

Tell me - when did I say that she didn't ask for a receipt?

I've gotta agree with Gaynor to an extent. It's pretty obvious she didn't ask for a receipt. You've already implied that she doesn't have a receipt, and I cannot believe that you wouldn't have already brought up "she asked for a receipt and they refused." Further, I'd find it hard to believe that you could hand anyone $500 and say "could I have a receipt please" and they'd say "no."

But, if as you say, the airline ticket was transferred to someone else, then I think she has a strong case for getting her money back. Though, I'm not certain how strong a verbal contract may be - everyone may have been told numerous times that "it's a non-refundable deposit." Or, in small claims court, they may make that claim and bring in a few witnesses to state that everyone was told repeatedly that it's a non-refundable deposit.

 

[silverpig]

Ask for $400 back. They can keep the $100 for the transfer fee to change the ticket.

 

[SandEagle]

consider it a lesson learned and move on.
/typical AT response

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Technically they probably are within their legal rights to keep the deposit.

Morally it just seems wrong to do that considering your girlfriend is volunteering her time to help them.

 

[Rage187]

Was it a deposit? If so, you get nothing back.

 

[mvbighead]

Meh, the usual deal with these situations is that you can't get it back if you can't find someone to take your spot. Seeings as they already found someone, they should have no problems returning your deposit.

Had they not found someone, it'd be on her.

In any case, this is all too vague. Typically, there is a document that dictates how payments are made, and the way in which they apply. Whether they are deposits, down payments, or whatever they choose to call them. Sounds like the organizer is a dip shit if they don't have a signed document that indicates all of this.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

They probably are refusing to refund the money because they don't have it any more.

Assuming they're human and they like your GF, they'd probably try to help her out if they could. Even if they specifically told her that it was a nonrefundable deposit and she was like "shut up and take my money!" they'd probably try to "do right" by her if they could, to the tune of some amount less than she initially gave them.

Assuming they don't hate her guts, but then they must be really hard up for volunteers. Yikes.

But knowing nonprofits, especially bands, I have no doubt they managed to get screwed out of the $500 already through some combination of slick travel agents, their own stupidity, and the appeal of office treats.

If you had a receipt and nothing that said nonrefundable, I'd say go to small claims and you'd have a fair case. Since you don't, it comes down to he said, she said. I hate it when that happens. Whether you can collect after a judgement in your favor, well... yeah. It's not like a court ruling makes money magically appear. (What do you want to bet they aren't insured...?)

Good luck.