Path of Exile 2.0 - Discussion

[Cappuccino]

D3 wins in combat, but seriously that's about it anymore...
Most everything else is heavily slanted in PoE's favor or a toss up depending on what you like.

PoE has better itemization
PoE has better customization
PoE has an economy
PoE has an active build guide community
PoE has racing
PoE is free

The above are pretty obvious and you'd struggle to form an argument against those things. On the other hand there are things that some people prefer...

The end-game is a toss up. I like the map system except for the invisible wall that stops progression, but I know many who like Greater Rifts.
The story is also a toss up. Most people hated the D3 story, but I don't really even pay attention to the story in PoE. I do enjoy the "Lore hunter" posts on the forums though.
Graphics is a toss up. You'd find a lot of people who would give this to D3, but I just never fell in love with the graphical style. PoE feels a little more up my alley.
Support I would personally give to PoE. They patch a ton and new content comes really fast. There are people that don't like this though and wish they would slow down. I think D3 is way too slow.

That's kind of my analysis. I put probably 2k-ish hours into D3. I had a blast on release, but they really dumbed the game down. It's not in a bad place now, but the lack of an economy really kills the game for me.

I may have over 4k hours in PoE by now. I've created perhaps half of the obvious builds that most people do. I have a group of 4-5 friends and we play every season together. It's really become an awesome successor to Diablo 2. You can see that the developers played a lot of D2 and really tried to keep that feel.

Thank you

I have a question about items. Do item drop random level items for example if im level 10, do I find level 10 items or do I find x level items?

 

[Homerboy]

Thank you

I have a question about items. Do item drop random level items for example if im level 10, do I find level 10 items or do I find x level items?

Not to be a jerk here, but the game is free.
Install it, play it for a bit and you will see pretty quickly if you like it or not

 

[ArchAngel777]

POE.TRADE is awesome.

That said, what is up with their currency exchange rates? They are claiming 40c:1ex, yet nowhere is anyone offering that exchange. WTH is up with that?

The currency exchange in the league is really odd. I bet one could make money by simply trading chaos for Alts, stockiling them until the league is dumped to standard and echange them back for a really good rate.

I have seen 20 alts:1c

In standard it isn't too uncomm to see someone willing to do 12alts:1c

also, it seems fuses are not worth nearly as much as they are in standard... I wonder why that is. Still learning the economy of the leagues.

 

[Udgnim]

Thank you. May I ask is it worth playing? What I mean is. Is it worth grinding hours and hours? For example in D3 you grind for hours and most of the time you find shitty stuff but what about PoE? is it rewarding? Do people play seasons in PoE? If yes I'm not a seasonal player i like co=cop and kills stuff with random people D:

I've always played PoE based off of build enjoyment

some builds are limited by what accessible gear you have though, but PoE end game is either going for Lvl 100 (largely dependent on having stable access to highest level maps) or trying to get better gear (farm / trade fest)

I usually top off builds around Lvl 80-85 and only go higher if I really like the build and have access to higher level maps to make the XP grind more tolerable

there are public parties to join while leveling. don't know about mapping. I've been a solo player for a while in PoE.

 

[smackababy]

Thank you burgerboi



I have around 3k hours on D3. Is PoE better? pros and cons? how many hours u have on poe? finally i can rekt you since ur us on d3 :sneaky:

PoE certainly has its strong points. D3 certainly has more polish. The combat in D3 is smoother, but PoE has builds that are better. Ranged combat is certainly better in PoE.

As far as items, there are two things. Item level and item "type". Item level determines what affixed you can roll on the items and item type determined the base stats. So, you can find a low level type of armor in a high level map, but the affixed have the potential to be really good. Now, those are random, so it has the potential to be crap, and will be 99% of the time. Unique items require certain iLevel to drop and have the same range to roll no matter what. These are also tiered, and the most valuable are very hard to find.

Poemods.com can give you an idea of what is rollable on which item levels.

 

[Jax Omen]

POE.TRADE is awesome.

That said, what is up with their currency exchange rates? They are claiming 40c:1ex, yet nowhere is anyone offering that exchange. WTH is up with that?

The currency exchange in the league is really odd. I bet one could make money by simply trading chaos for Alts, stockiling them until the league is dumped to standard and echange them back for a really good rate.

I have seen 20 alts:1c

In standard it isn't too uncomm to see someone willing to do 12alts:1c

also, it seems fuses are not worth nearly as much as they are in standard... I wonder why that is. Still learning the economy of the leagues.

currency rates on poe.trade are the offers set by players who opt to set up currency trades via the site. They are usually at best just outdated ratios, at worst they are players trying to mislead newbies into thinking their exalts are worth less than they are, so they can buy newbies' exalts for cheap.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the currency portion of poe.trade

 

[Majes]

Thank you

I have a question about items. Do item drop random level items for example if im level 10, do I find level 10 items or do I find x level items?

Item drops are based on the level of the area you are currently in. I believe that rare monsters and unique mobs drop items that are one and two levels higher respectively. You can see the level of an area by looking to the top right and hitting tab a few times.

 

[Jax Omen]

magic (blue) monsters drop items 1 level higher than zone level.
rare (yellow) and unique (orange) monsters drop items 2 levels higher than zone level.

NOTABLE EXCEPTION: MAPS. Maps can drop in any level 60+ zone, but only tier 1 (level 68) maps can drop outside of maps. Maps can only drop up to +1 level from current map while inside a map, EXCEPT for the first map boss killed (multi-boss maps and twinned maps do not give extra chances), who can drop +2. Unique maps, however, follow regular drop rules and can drop anywhere that is high enough drop level to cause them to drop.

Basically, map drops are weird and kind of dumb, the rest of it is straightforward.

 

[ArchAngel777]

BTW - I feel I am almost ready for Hardcore. I was able to get Merciless Vaal Corrupted before my first death and honestly, that death was bogus, because of lag.

My second death was on Dominus Merciless, and that was somewhat of a bogus death as well as it wasn't difficult, I just hit a spike.

That said, that is probably the main reason I won't go hardcore. It seems to put your game into the hands of the lag gods.

 

[Cappuccino]

sorry guys i dont like this game. I played 10 hours already.

I stick to D3
haters gunna h8

 

[Jax Omen]

Honestly I would never expect the D3 faithful to like PoE.

PoE is a game for the D2 faithful who hated D3. Literally - the devs wanted to make a successor to D2 that they themselves would want to play, because they loved D2 that much.

 

[smackababy]

sorry guys i dont like this game. I played 10 hours already.

I stick to D3
haters gunna h8

It starts fairly terrible. It doesn't really get "good" until you get high enough level and skill gems that don't suck.

Honestly I would never expect the D3 faithful to like PoE.

PoE is a game for the D2 faithful who hated D3. Literally - the devs wanted to make a successor to D2 that they themselves would want to play, because they loved D2 that much.

Honestly, they took a lot of the concepts that were bad in D2 and didn't fix them. The entire idea of a barter system is fine, except it just didn't work. The community tied it with crafting items and happened to make one of the best crafting items that rarity that makes it perfect for trading. Unfortunately, this really stifles crafting except for the rich who can afford to blow an exalt or two on an item.

 

[Udgnim]

It starts fairly terrible. It doesn't really get "good" until you get high enough level and skill gems that don't suck.


Honestly, they took a lot of the concepts that were bad in D2 and didn't fix them. The entire idea of a barter system is fine, except it just didn't work. The community tied it with crafting items and happened to make one of the best crafting items that rarity that makes it perfect for trading. Unfortunately, this really stifles crafting except for the rich who can afford to blow an exalt or two on an item.

in terms of crafting usable items, Master crafting made a lot more items viable for use

in terms of crafting top tier items, yeah, need to rich or very lucky for that

 

[Jax Omen]

Which, frankly, is how it should be IMO. If it didn't require massive resources to craft perfect gear, the game would have to be balanced around perfect gear, which would make it hell for the rest of us.

 

[smackababy]

If you're a new player or poor player, crafting is 100% not worth the cost, especially with regards to rare items.

That exalt you will spend to add a single affix to a rare item and possibly make it better (but more than likely make it worse) is better spent on an already crafted "not top tier" item.

My argument isn't against the crafting system. I actually really like it. My argument is against the rarity of certain crafting orbs and how they fit into the economy. If, for instance, Chaos orbs and Exalted orbs had their rarity swapped (making chaos orbs the de facto base currency), it would be far more balanced.

 

[Jax Omen]

On the other hand, Smackababy, master crafting is what you should be doing if you're still "poor" enough to care about individual exalts.

Between prefix/suffix cannot be changed mastermod + orb of scouring, elreon multimod, and just master crafting 4-5 affix good rares that drop, any poor player can craft *good enough* gear.

The bar is only high (spending exalts to add affixes) for the richest of the rich to make near-perfect gear. Near-perfect gear should NEVER be easily attained. Period.

All that matters is the cheap shit is "good enough", and near-perfect is near-unattainable. That keeps the treadmill going, always gotta strive for upgrades.

 

[Techie14]

It's really become an awesome successor to Diablo 2. You can see that the developers played a lot of D2 and really tried to keep that feel.

That's very true. I didn't like D3 at all. D3 was lacking all the details D2 already had.

POE is way better than D3! If you haven't played it yet, give it a try! It's free 2 play and you don't have to spend money at all to get better!

 

[smackababy]

On the other hand, Smackababy, master crafting is what you should be doing if you're still "poor" enough to care about individual exalts.

Between prefix/suffix cannot be changed mastermod + orb of scouring, elreon multimod, and just master crafting 4-5 affix good rares that drop, any poor player can craft *good enough* gear.

The bar is only high (spending exalts to add affixes) for the richest of the rich to make near-perfect gear. Near-perfect gear should NEVER be easily attained. Period.

All that matters is the cheap shit is "good enough", and near-perfect is near-unattainable. That keeps the treadmill going, always gotta strive for upgrades.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. I've played since the start of open beta and the cost of crafting has always been something I viewed as a problem hindering people. Even with the addition of the masters, it didn't alleviate you still can't get anything about mediocre (and it costs a lot, especially multimod).

However, even with that being an issue, the game certainly makes up for it in most ways IMO. I feel GGG understood the problems with D2 (and D3), but weren't quite able to completely eliminate them.

 

[Jax Omen]

I think you and I simply have different definitions of "good enough".

 

[ArchAngel777]

Yep, you both really agree in the end. If, for example, the game was balanced around magic items (probably is to some extent) then everyone can craft top tier magic items, even new people to the game (after they acquire some augs, alts, trans) - So, assuming that is where they balance the game, then yes, crafting is definitely viable for everyone.

If 6 affix rares are the standard, and the game is balanced again those, then only the extreme rich can craft. The rest of us use Chaos or Alcs and hope we get some good rolls on items, or we find unique items.

I don't believe the game is balanced around magic, or 6 affix rares. I think it is somewhere in between, or possibly even balanced around a combination of magic, rare and unique. That said, it is definitely not balanced against 6 affixes.

My current build is very potent and very cheap to run and easy to play. I believe I only have 12 chaos orbs invested into my gear and I really don't need to upgrade anything. Just need to level to grab more life nodes and open up my master crafter for jewelry.

 

[smackababy]

I think you and I simply have different definitions of "good enough".

That may be the case.


Decided to play around and try a budget mjolner build on a character I wasn't doing anything with. Not terrible. With the cheapness of mjolner, I spent maybe 3ex and have a good build. Currently dual curse, but thinking of dropping a ring to accommodate more damage without it. This may be league viable and the you just farm up to get a voll's devotion to complete it. It looks like a 5L is good enough so maybe another 1ex to fully complete me as I currently am running a tabula.

 

[Jax Omen]

Yep, you both really agree in the end. If, for example, the game was balanced around magic items (probably is to some extent) then everyone can craft top tier magic items, even new people to the game (after they acquire some augs, alts, trans) - So, assuming that is where they balance the game, then yes, crafting is definitely viable for everyone.

If 6 affix rares are the standard, and the game is balanced again those, then only the extreme rich can craft. The rest of us use Chaos or Alcs and hope we get some good rolls on items, or we find unique items.

I don't believe the game is balanced around magic, or 6 affix rares. I think it is somewhere in between, or possibly even balanced around a combination of magic, rare and unique. That said, it is definitely not balanced against 6 affixes.

My current build is very potent and very cheap to run and easy to play. I believe I only have 12 chaos orbs invested into my gear and I really don't need to upgrade anything. Just need to level to grab more life nodes and open up my master crafter for jewelry.

"what the game is balanced around" varies depending on the content in question.

low level maps (white rune on the map) are balanced around a character being resistance capped (75%), around 3500-4000 life or 6000-8000ES, and one other form of defense (evasion, dodge, armor, lightning coil, potent leech, etc). Good flasks are basically essential. Some builds will make tradeoffs (abyssus, for example) that require more, of course. DPS requirements are generally low, and doing abnormally high damage can generally bypass most defensive requirements as long as you have enough HP/ES to avoid being oneshot (the largest non-choreographed hit you should take in maps like this is approx 3k)

Mid level maps (yellow rune on the map) are balanced around all of the above, only the defensive requirements are significantly higher (about 20% higher raw life/ES, plus more potent defense stacking). MOST maps in this tier still have very soft DPS requirements, with a couple exceptions (shock and horror is easy if you do lots of damage, very frustrating otherwise, Jungle Valley has abnormal defense requirements because boss does tons of chaos damage).

High level (red rune) maps are balanced around abusing everything possible to survive, and have often much more extreme DPS requirements besides.

You can do low level maps in blues if you cap resists. mid-level you need decent rares (~3-4 useful T1-4 mods per item). High level you need REALLY GOOD rares (3-4 T1-2 useful affixes per item, usually with the other affixes still useful even if they're lower tier).

 

[smackababy]

"what the game is balanced around" varies depending on the content in question.

low level maps (white rune on the map) are balanced around a character being resistance capped (75%), around 3500-4000 life or 6000-8000ES, and one other form of defense (evasion, dodge, armor, lightning coil, potent leech, etc). Good flasks are basically essential. Some builds will make tradeoffs (abyssus, for example) that require more, of course. DPS requirements are generally low, and doing abnormally high damage can generally bypass most defensive requirements as long as you have enough HP/ES to avoid being oneshot (the largest non-choreographed hit you should take in maps like this is approx 3k)

Mid level maps (yellow rune on the map) are balanced around all of the above, only the defensive requirements are significantly higher (about 20% higher raw life/ES, plus more potent defense stacking). MOST maps in this tier still have very soft DPS requirements, with a couple exceptions (shock and horror is easy if you do lots of damage, very frustrating otherwise, Jungle Valley has abnormal defense requirements because boss does tons of chaos damage).

High level (red rune) maps are balanced around abusing everything possible to survive, and have often much more extreme DPS requirements besides.

You can do low level maps in blues if you cap resists. mid-level you need decent rares (~3-4 useful T1-4 mods per item). High level you need REALLY GOOD rares (3-4 T1-2 useful affixes per item, usually with the other affixes still useful even if they're lower tier).

If your build or current gear level can't do Atziri, it isn't an even decent build. And nobody wants to do level 68 maps all day.

 

[Jax Omen]

If your build or current gear level can't do Atziri, it isn't an even decent build. And nobody wants to do level 68 maps all day.

Disregarding that this is an idiodic and wrong sentiment (there are many purposes a build may have, Atziri is one of them, MF cull farming dominus/voll/etc may be another, for example)... It's needlessly hostile and has nothing to do with the post you quoted.

I was replying to Archangel discussing what the game is balanced around, because different endgame content *IS* balanced around different gear levels. You don't need great gear for 68 maps, because they're balanced around assuming your gear kind of sucks. And you won't be getting to Atziri without fairly good gear (because trio OP). Atziri herself has been done by someone specced EB/CI (1hp, 0ES), she doesn't require any special gear and the actual DPS requirement to complete the encounter is low (as long as you do enough damage to kill the zombies before they reach her, and dodge all attacks perfectly, you will eventually win).

 

[ArchAngel777]

Welp... I am about to find out how good my 15c build is. Going to attempt Atziri shortly. That said, even if I don't succeed, It wouldn't be my builds fault, it will be gear related. That said, I just need to get some more HP and to level up my gems. The are only L16. Only 4L too.

4K HP
+170% Flask HP Restored
34K Armour
5% Dodge
20% Block
76% Fire
75% Cold
75% Light
75% Chaos
Firestorm - 19K Sustained DPS (Fire Pen, Iron Will, Spell Echo - This is definitely low, but mainly because my gems are low level and only using 4L)

Iron Will is def better than conc effect as my Str is 400+ - That said, my single target DPS suffers a bit, but happy trade-off for a much larger AoE area. Of course, if I had a 6L, I would add conc effect and increased duration. That would bring DPS up well past 100K and probably 200K @ L20 gems.