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Path of Exile 2.0 - Discussion

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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,621
387
126
I find the game to be too single dimensional still after playing it during breach league. Basically only a handful of builds are all that optimal and those basically involve spamming one ability over and over. Very little situational reactional abilities are worth it.
 
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CrowDog

Golden Member
Jun 7, 2001
1,709
8
81
I find the game to be too single dimensional still after playing it during breach league. Basically only a handful of builds are all that optimal and those basically involve spamming one ability over and over. Very little situational reactional abilities are worth it.
Everything is viable unless you are farming Shaper and Uber Atziri ( I play HC so neither of those apply) .....build your own and make something that plays the way you want. Path of Building can help tell you if your build idea will have the damage you are looking for.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,621
387
126
Everything is viable unless you are farming Shaper and Uber Atziri ( I play HC so neither of those apply) .....build your own and make something that plays the way you want. Path of Building can help tell you if your build idea will have the damage you are looking for.
No. Not everything is viable at all. Everyone as a one dimensional character is viable, unless you talking only beating normal mode only. If you go beyond normal, and I'm not talking Shaper or that stuff, you STILL need to focus on doing one thing really well only. It turns that character into a 1 trick pony every time. It gets boring.
 

rstrohkirch

Platinum Member
May 31, 2005
2,060
219
106
No. Not everything is viable at all. Everyone as a one dimensional character is viable, unless you talking only beating normal mode only. If you go beyond normal, and I'm not talking Shaper or that stuff, you STILL need to focus on doing one thing really well only. It turns that character into a 1 trick pony every time. It gets boring.
Your first post said two separate things though. One that there are only a handful of builds that are optimal. And two, those handful of builds only use 1 primary attack skill over and over. Nativegamer is correct in that nearly all primary attack skills in the game are end game viable outside a few bosses. You're correct in that nearly all builds in general use only 1 primary attack skill repeatedly.

I'm trying to recall an ARPG that offers game play with multiple attack skills balanced equally in effectiveness and not some false idea of variety. Unless you feel things like self casting debuffs is variety?
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,621
387
126
Your first post said two separate things though. One that there are only a handful of builds that are optimal. And two, those handful of builds only use 1 primary attack skill over and over. Nativegamer is correct in that nearly all primary attack skills in the game are end game viable outside a few bosses. You're correct in that nearly all builds in general use only 1 primary attack skill repeatedly.

I'm trying to recall an ARPG that offers game play with multiple attack skills balanced equally in effectiveness and not some false idea of variety. Unless you feel things like self casting debuffs is variety?

Incorrect on the first statement. Not every build in game is viable. I can go all over the tree and pick up random shit and that character wouldn't do jack past normal. To be viable at all past normal levels, and I'm not even talking about taking on the highest content, you HAVE to focus your build to one thing and then pick up all the passives you can. That makes for some really boring game play. Even then, you have to focus on one of the "top" builds if you want to make it to level 100 and be running the toughest end game content. I don't mind that a min/max approach is required for that per say, but I do like having off the wall builds that don't actually focus on something still at least be able to go all difficulties, even if those builds would be rather difficult to do so. Forced min/max games, like Path of Exile, are just bleh in the long run to me.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,900
1,238
126
So what's the latest on this game? If I understand correctly, Legacy is going away and they are rolling out whole new acts?
Can somebody give a quick bullet list of what's planned etc, please?
The beta starts this week (Thursday I think-if you log onto the game the initial screen has a countdown). Legacy is continued in the meantime so you don't have to go to the beta, Legacy now scheduled to end July 13th.

I think I'm about the only one left active in the guild. Currently I'm pushing through the 1000 tri-leaguestone acheivement, which is a true grind. Closing on on 900 soon.
 

rstrohkirch

Platinum Member
May 31, 2005
2,060
219
106
Incorrect on the first statement. Not every build in game is viable. I can go all over the tree and pick up random shit and that character wouldn't do jack past normal. To be viable at all past normal levels, and I'm not even talking about taking on the highest content, you HAVE to focus your build to one thing and then pick up all the passives you can. That makes for some really boring game play.
Well, that's not true at all. You can spend less than 1 alch and pick any of the numerous OP leveling uniques and not spend a point until Cruel. You can finish Merciless with nearly no gear and or points spent and a couple of OP uniques that cost nearly nothing. Especially if you're an attack based build. I beat Malachi on Merciless with a earthquake marauder with 70% of my points unplaced in HC last league. I think he had 1 chaos worth of gear. If you're playing SSF then things would be different. Though the game was never balanced around that.

Again, you are right in that you can really only have 1 primary attack skill. But, what APRG games have you played that allow you to completely place points randomly, choose more than 1 primary skill and have this build do anything close to end game content? The point you're trying to make is something that has occurred in pretty much any APRG I can recall playing. They are all incredibly repetitive in the same way and I can only stand playing them for a month or two at the most.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,621
387
126
Well, that's not true at all. You can spend less than 1 alch and pick any of the numerous OP leveling uniques and not spend a point until Cruel. You can finish Merciless with nearly no gear and or points spent and a couple of OP uniques that cost nearly nothing. Especially if you're an attack based build. I beat Malachi on Merciless with a earthquake marauder with 70% of my points unplaced in HC last league. I think he had 1 chaos worth of gear. If you're playing SSF then things would be different. Though the game was never balanced around that.

Again, you are right in that you can really only have 1 primary attack skill. But, what APRG games have you played that allow you to completely place points randomly, choose more than 1 primary skill and have this build do anything close to end game content? The point you're trying to make is something that has occurred in pretty much any APRG I can recall playing. They are all incredibly repetitive in the same way and I can only stand playing them for a month or two at the most.
Ohh, your rebuttal is that if someone wants to twink the shit out of their chars and not play with what they find on a run, they can rely only on items to get them far.

That is true to a point, but not really, as you won't have the base stats for a lot of the gear required for that.

As for the base attacks, yes there are plenty. Diablo comes to mind. I can focus on several attacks/abilities all at once. I can decide to mix up my abilities per room or fight without having to constantly switch my build around. True, you can't pick EVERYTHING available, but you can certainly spread points around easier without having to focus on a single setup. I feel you are just disassembling at this point from fanboyism.
 

rstrohkirch

Platinum Member
May 31, 2005
2,060
219
106
Ohh, your rebuttal is that if someone wants to twink the shit out of their chars and not play with what they find on a run, they can rely only on items to get them far.
Is that how you read it? You mentioned that you need to be diligent and pick standard decisive paths even in normal or you won't be viable at all even past normal levels. I noted that the game was easy enough to spend "nearly" no points or currency and just put on some of the numerous junk uniques for a character to make it to end game. Unless you meant something else when you said normal levels.

That is true to a point, but not really, as you won't have the base stats for a lot of the gear required for that.
You can get tons of base stats by junk jewelry which then allows you to put on some junk gear. More than enough to use a lot of the OP leveling uniques.

As for the base attacks, yes there are plenty. Diablo comes to mind. I can focus on several attacks/abilities all at once. I can decide to mix up my abilities per room or fight without having to constantly switch my build around.
I'll give you D3. But those abilities you're mentioning are also present in PoE. They are present as both skills AND flasks. Those 1-3 skills you have in D3 that have cool downs and generate "charges", give health or resistances or increase defenses are nearly identical to the flask management and selection of PoE. Even the large cool down heavy hit skill you see on various builds in D3 is available as various flasks in PoE. In PoE end game, flask selection and management is essential and very similar to skill selection and management in D3 end game.

True, you can't pick EVERYTHING available, but you can certainly spread points around easier without having to focus on a single setup.
I'm not sure what game you're referring too here.

feel you are just disassembling at this point from fanboyism.
I just don't feel your initial complaint about PoE is really different from any ARPG I've tried. I don't think any of them really offer anything more OR allow you to experience total end game with large build variety. I've been trying to get you to give more details. But, I've been providing more detailed responses to your meh it sucks sentences then you've been giving details on what you're comparing the game too.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,621
387
126
Is that how you read it? You mentioned that you need to be diligent and pick standard decisive paths even in normal or you won't be viable at all even past normal levels. I noted that the game was easy enough to spend "nearly" no points or currency and just put on some of the numerous junk uniques for a character to make it to end game. Unless you meant something else when you said normal levels.
I am talking about going through all difficulty levels through the "normal" game progression. Not talking the map grinding progression or the optional boss fights. One plays a game like this hoping to make it through all the normal game levels with a character they don't have to specifically min/max and turn into a one trick pony. MANY other games out there allow for that as an isometric adventure game. Path of Exile does not.




You can get tons of base stats by junk jewelry which then allows you to put on some junk gear. More than enough to use a lot of the OP leveling uniques.
Again, twinking is missing the point


I'll give you D3. But those abilities you're mentioning are also present in PoE. They are present as both skills AND flasks. Those 1-3 skills you have in D3 that have cool downs and generate "charges", give health or resistances or increase defenses are nearly identical to the flask management and selection of PoE. Even the large cool down heavy hit skill you see on various builds in D3 is available as various flasks in PoE. In PoE end game, flask selection and management is essential and very similar to skill selection and management in D3 end game.
There is much more than D3. Grim Dawn, Torchlight, Ember, Dungeon Siege, Warhammer, and several others are the same. You may have a "main" attack, but that is not what your character only does. Path of Exile is actually fairly unique in this regard among isometric adventure games. Most games allow a player, and usually expect players, to have several secondary attacks, tactics, and reactionary tools/abilities that are more than just drinking a potion for some health regen and a buff.


I'm not sure what game you're referring too here.
I'm talking about most games of the genre or just rpg progression tree style in general. They either give you a group of "one trick ponies" that while individual characters can do only one thing, overall as the player you have access to a multitude of abilities that expand your tactical play style. Path of Exile does not allow this as I mentioned. You are forced to min/max one trick pony focus to beat the "game" and reach max level. This leads to very slanted and boring game play in the long run or high levels of frustration otherwise. D3 was a bit like this once back when it was originally released. If you were the perfect wizard/demon hunter setup, you weren't making it past Act2 Inferno. Wasn't happening. That caused a LOT of people to initially quit playing the game and forced Blizzard to retune everything.

I just don't feel your initial complaint about PoE is really different from any ARPG I've tried. I don't think any of them really offer anything more OR allow you to experience total end game with large build variety. I've been trying to get you to give more details. But, I've been providing more detailed responses to your meh it sucks sentences then you've been giving details on what you're comparing the game too.
I have been posting details. But let me break it down. I play something like Dungeon Siege. I have a group with a warrior, archer, ice wizard, fire wizard, and pet wizard. Just as an example. Or I can go all in with warriors. I can go all in with archers. I can kill off guys and switch out. I can build each of them different and change as the situation calls for. Warhammer same thing. Diablo 3 I have access to a ton of abilities and different syngeries. I can itemize/build as the situation requires. Can't beat a certain boss or stage with my current setup? I switch it out. Path of Exile you are a one trick pony. You can't be a totem/skeleton/fireblast/cyclone/aura mancer champ all at once. You'd get no where. You can't even switch on the fly that easy. Which as a design has it's own pros and cons. But usually when games take the approach of making it hard to switch your choices, they make the majority of the choices, even spread out ones, more viable at being able to complete the base game. Not just the easiest parts to the game.

This was why games like Titan Quest style design wasn't repeated, except through something like Path of Exile much. Titan quest, fun in it's own way, like Path of Exile is fun to a point as well, but overall not as fun as better designed games. The point I'm making is that there are better designed games of this type out there. They are more fun in the long run to a broader group of people. The only major draw for why Path of Exile has the current player base it does is because it is "free" to play.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,900
1,238
126
The main problem with Titan Quest, and a huge problem for its replayability, was the static maps. After you have run through a map a couple of times you pretty much know where you are going to get jumped, etc.

What you consider a one-trick pony is prety much end game specialization.My characters vary in skills used as they level up.

To every person their own, but I've played just about every D2 type game out there and POE is my favorite (after D2 where I was in a great coop guild).
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,621
387
126
The main problem with Titan Quest, and a huge problem for its replayability, was the static maps. After you have run through a map a couple of times you pretty much know where you are going to get jumped, etc.

What you consider a one-trick pony is prety much end game specialization.My characters vary in skills used as they level up.

To every person their own, but I've played just about every D2 type game out there and POE is my favorite (after D2 where I was in a great coop guild).
The static maps were a problem, but so was the boring builds and gameplay. The "best" classes were the ones with the most passives and a single good attack to use. Majority of those were the melee classes which turned the game into a boring click fest to progress. I know because I just went through a replay of it with the 10 year anniversary edition I bought not long ago on sale. It had better graphics but was a boring then as it was now.

Still, even procedural created maps are fundamentally formulaic. The patterns and individual "rooms" or sections are all completed hard coded even in all modern games. It's not hard to figure out how most of them lock up. That basically makes them not all that much more "exciting" map wise than static maps really.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,900
1,238
126
Realm down now for patch, should be up at 5:00PM Eastern US time with 2.6.1-and the start of the new beta.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
86
Finally installed the beta and am going to check it out this weekend. Hopefully they roll the new micro transactions stuff in so I can look fly.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
86
So, BF trap is still OP, though coated shrapnel may not be worth it anymore. Unless the poison starts scaling better later levels, I think it will be kind of meh. Though, that Brutality gem is going to look sweet with this.

Gonna try out some Pizzasticks next wipe.
 

Jax Omen

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2008
1,654
2
81
Doing rf mom scorching ray in beta, think I accidentally found something OP, didnt die in all the new content despite taking many dumb hits to the face due to not knowing what things do, melted everything.

Only deaths so far are because beta ends at 56 right now but maps start at 68 and I tried to brute force maps anyway.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
86
Doing rf mom scorching ray in beta, think I accidentally found something OP, didnt die in all the new content despite taking many dumb hits to the face due to not knowing what things do, melted everything.

Only deaths so far are because beta ends at 56 right now but maps start at 68 and I tried to brute force maps anyway.
Someone made a video about MoM and RF. It does seem super OP atm. Probably will be tweaked (or, hell maybe not). And yeah, I too did all the content without a single death until I tried to hit maps at like 56. Bad move, so I am back to slowly farming the later content kind of waiting for a wipe.

If anything, the new content proves just how lame the old content was. The new mobs are super aggressive (which is good, IMO). They either need to tweak some of the older stuff or it will be a huge hit for new players once they hit act 5.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
86
Been doing some more beta after the wipe. I can confirm pizza sticks is a noob trap. It's terrible now. Still doing some Bladefall crit trapper testing, though I think Brutality will end up being a good link for it and dropping Hatred.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,900
1,238
126
I haven't played beta at all (enjoying the last little bits of legacy). has flame totem survived as a viable build?
 

Not So Mild

Member
Jun 9, 2017
149
32
56
I haven't played beta at all (enjoying the last little bits of legacy). has flame totem survived as a viable build?
It's honestly too early to make an accurate decision. Anything can happen in the 3.0 patch notes, but flame totem is largely unchanged. It might have lost a little bit of damage from double dipping nerfs, but most FT builds didn't really abuse that. It now pierces all targets if I remember correctly.
 

Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
29,567
3,338
126
Love those Flame Totems!

I actually played a little bit over the past few days. Is fun, but I always find myself stuck at those L8-10 maps and just can't get past them very easily and my interest then wanes.
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
649
29
91
Just getting back to playing PoE after skipping Legacy completely. Feels like I missed a good league, but doesn't seem like there's a point in starting a character now. I think I'll just try my hand at the new two week event that is starting soon.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
78
86
Just getting back to playing PoE after skipping Legacy completely. Feels like I missed a good league, but doesn't seem like there's a point in starting a character now. I think I'll just try my hand at the new two week event that is starting soon.
Wouldn't hurt to jump into the league and learn some of the new things you missed. It's going to be dead, player wise, but you will want to know stuff before you get stuck with 5 invasion bosses in Izaro's room.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,900
1,238
126
Wouldn't hurt to jump into the league and learn some of the new things you missed. It's going to be dead, player wise, but you will want to know stuff before you get stuck with 5 invasion bosses in Izaro's room.
Legacy scheduled to end tomorrow 2200 GMT. Too bad, it's been my favorite league by a huge margin. They should make legacy a permanent part of standard league.
 
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